Can't decide what to do

[cydewaze]

So I got my replacement Pixel today. It's a little sad, because I'm 99% certain that this is a refurb, so I feel like I'm getting a refurb phone for the price of new, which I'm paying.

Anyway, it's spotless, so I suppose I shouldn't worry about that.

My last Pixel was rooted. I had to return it because the mic stopped working and there appeared to be no way to fix it. When they sent the new one, I decided to unroot the old one and re-lock the bootloader. For whatever reason, this bricked the phone.

Now that I have the new one, my choices are:
1) Root, and carry on as before,
2) Leave it unrooted, and...
a) loose the functionality of PowerWidgets, which I quite like. Not only do they not work as intended, the don't indicate either, so you can't tell what's active and what isn't
b) not be able to restore my backup, so I lose game progress and the like.

I guess my worry is that the rooting process was a little fiddly, and if I ever need to unroot again, I might be looking at a brick.

 

[Rocketsaucev2]

So I got my replacement Pixel today. It's a little sad, because I'm 99% certain that this is a refurb, so I feel like I'm getting a refurb phone for the price of new, which I'm paying.

Anyway, it's spotless, so I suppose I shouldn't worry about that.

My last Pixel was rooted. I had to return it because the mic stopped working and there appeared to be no way to fix it. When they sent the new one, I decided to unroot the old one and re-lock the bootloader. For whatever reason, this bricked the phone.

Now that I have the new one, my choices are:
1) Root, and carry on as before,
2) Leave it unrooted, and...
a) loose the functionality of PowerWidgets, which I quite like. Not only do they not work as intended, the don't indicate either, so you can't tell what's active and what isn't
b) not be able to restore my backup, so I lose game progress and the like.

I guess my worry is that the rooting process was a little fiddly, and if I ever need to unroot again, I might be looking at a brick.

Did you flash the factory image before locking the bootloader? Not being factory stock would brick the phone when locking

 

[quangtran1]

See, I'm at the opposite end as far as refurbished phones go. For 15 years, I was the IT Director for the largest phone refurbisher in the Midwest and eastern US region. Our techs were trained and certified by the big boys, Motorola, Sony, Samsung, LG, Kyocera. We received hundreds of thousand phones for repair and recertification. OEMs, carriers, retailers like Best Buy and Radio Shack sent us phones that their customers returned under warranty. We saw phones from Magic Johnson, Walter Payton, famous actors, etc. It was really something. People don't realize this but a recertified phone is really awesome. One, every electronic device has a 6 or 7-month cook period. Defective components are likely to fail in these first 6, 7 months. We, and only we, with data from the OEMs, knew which components had a high fail rate. We then automatically substituted those components with improved engineered parts. Even when a capacitor was working fine, we replaced it automatically if our historical data demanded it. All parts were new, OEM original parts. We automatically replaced screen, battery, and antenna. Two, we flashed all phones with the latest drivers and firmwares at the component level. I'm talking about squeezing one more dBm out of a radio antenna, whatever. Three, we redid all solder joints to assure the phones work for years to come. Fourth, we cooked the phones under extreme heat test, cold test, and harsh conditions. So see, all these refurbished phones ended up being better than new phones that came off assembly lines. That was our refurbishing process, not just spraying some cleaner and wipe it off. And we weren't alone, I'm sure, as OEMs and carriers are very strict in selecting their refurbishers. They tour the facility, they make you become certified before they grant contracts. If I could, I would buy all of my electronics refurbished. I would even pay more for the peace knowing that someone else looked at my phone besides the OEM. I think people see what car dealerships do with so-called recertification process and think that's what phone refurbishers do. Car dealerships change oil on a used vehicle, visually inspect belts and hoses, detail the car, then put it back on the lot for sale. They don't stress test the water pump, the condenser, etc. A phone refurbisher does component level replacements.

 

[cydewaze]

Did you flash the factory image before locking the bootloader? Not being factory stock would brick the phone when locking

Then that's what did it. The tutorial I followed said nothing about flashing any images. It just told you how to relock the bootloader. At least now I know how to avoid bricking it in the future. Thank you.


As far as the refurb goes, I just had two Verizon people (one on the customer service number, one at a store) tell me that they aren't giving out refurbs yet because it hasn't been long enough for them to have enough refurbs, so it's more than likely that my replacement is new.

I'm going to use the phone unrooted for the rest of the week and see how annoying it is. Then I'll decide whether to root or not.

 

[jimbo1mcm]

See, I'm at the opposite end as far as refurbished phones go. For 15 years, I was the IT Director for the largest phone refurbisher in the Midwest and eastern US region. Our techs were trained and certified by the big boys, Motorola, Sony, Samsung, LG, Kyocera. We received hundreds of thousand phones for repair and recertification. OEMs, carriers, retailers like Best Buy and Radio Shack sent us phones that their customers returned under warranty. We saw phones from Magic Johnson, Walter Payton, famous actors, etc. It was really something. People don't realize this but a recertified phone is really awesome. One, every electronic device has a 6 or 7-month cook period. Defective components are likely to fail in these first 6, 7 months. We, and only we, with data from the OEMs, knew which components had a high fail rate. We then automatically substituted those components with improved engineered parts. Even when a capacitor was working fine, we replaced it automatically if our historical data demanded it. All parts were new, OEM original parts. We automatically replaced screen, battery, and antenna. Two, we flashed all phones with the latest drivers and firmwares at the component level. I'm talking about squeezing one more dBm out of a radio antenna, whatever. Three, we redid all solder joints to assure the phones work for years to come. Fourth, we cooked the phones under extreme heat test, cold test, and harsh conditions. So see, all these refurbished phones ended up being better than new phones that came off assembly lines. That was our refurbishing process, not just spraying some cleaner and wipe it off. And we weren't alone, I'm sure, as OEMs and carriers are very strict in selecting their refurbishers. They tour the facility, they make you become certified before they grant contracts. If I could, I would buy all of my electronics refurbished. I would even pay more for the peace knowing that someone else looked at my phone besides the OEM. I think people see what car dealerships do with so-called recertification process and think that's what phone refurbishers do. Car dealerships change oil on a used vehicle, visually inspect belts and hoses, detail the car, then put it back on the lot for sale. They don't stress test the water pump, the condenser, etc. A phone refurbisher does component level replacements.

Thank you for that very informative post.

 

[jimbo1mcm]

For OP: It sounds like you are not totally experienced with the nuances of rooting, flashing etc. It cost you a brick to learn that you shouldn't go into something you don't really know how to do. If it were me, I would leave the new phone the way it is. The Pixel is pretty good straight up. Maybe you could buy an older phone on swappa and practice flashing, rooting.

 

[cydewaze]

For OP: It sounds like you are not totally experienced with the nuances of rooting, flashing etc. It cost you a brick to learn that you shouldn't go into something you don't really know how to do. If it were me, I would leave the new phone the way it is. The Pixel is pretty good straight up. Maybe you could buy an older phone on swappa and practice flashing, rooting.

Well I've had a good bit of practice on my three previous phones. The thing is, knowing the nuances of rooting with one phone doesn't really make you an expert on another phone. The rooting processes for all the phones I've owned was a bit different. And even then, the rooting wasn't the problem. It was in trying to return the defective phone back to stock, something I probably (hopefully) won't have to do again.

But you're totally right about the Pixel being good out of the box. Out of all the phones I've had, it seems to beg for root the least. I'll lose Titanium backup, but I can just use Helium. I'll lose the ability of Power Toggles to toggle GPS and Airplane mode with a touch, but that's not the end of the world. A lot of things I used to need root for (like some Llama/Tasker functions, killing the annoying boot sounds, and banning things from the notification bar) all seem to work out of the box on the Pixel.

I'm leaning toward just using this as is.

 

[Morty2264]

See, I'm at the opposite end as far as refurbished phones go. For 15 years, I was the IT Director for the largest phone refurbisher in the Midwest and eastern US region. Our techs were trained and certified by the big boys, Motorola, Sony, Samsung, LG, Kyocera. We received hundreds of thousand phones for repair and recertification. OEMs, carriers, retailers like Best Buy and Radio Shack sent us phones that their customers returned under warranty. We saw phones from Magic Johnson, Walter Payton, famous actors, etc. It was really something. People don't realize this but a recertified phone is really awesome. One, every electronic device has a 6 or 7-month cook period. Defective components are likely to fail in these first 6, 7 months. We, and only we, with data from the OEMs, knew which components had a high fail rate. We then automatically substituted those components with improved engineered parts. Even when a capacitor was working fine, we replaced it automatically if our historical data demanded it. All parts were new, OEM original parts. We automatically replaced screen, battery, and antenna. Two, we flashed all phones with the latest drivers and firmwares at the component level. I'm talking about squeezing one more dBm out of a radio antenna, whatever. Three, we redid all solder joints to assure the phones work for years to come. Fourth, we cooked the phones under extreme heat test, cold test, and harsh conditions. So see, all these refurbished phones ended up being better than new phones that came off assembly lines. That was our refurbishing process, not just spraying some cleaner and wipe it off. And we weren't alone, I'm sure, as OEMs and carriers are very strict in selecting their refurbishers. They tour the facility, they make you become certified before they grant contracts. If I could, I would buy all of my electronics refurbished. I would even pay more for the peace knowing that someone else looked at my phone besides the OEM. I think people see what car dealerships do with so-called recertification process and think that's what phone refurbishers do. Car dealerships change oil on a used vehicle, visually inspect belts and hoses, detail the car, then put it back on the lot for sale. They don't stress test the water pump, the condenser, etc. A phone refurbisher does component level replacements.

Thank you for this post. I am considering buying a refurbished Honor 8, and I'd be saving $100 if I bought it refurbished as opposed to new. I didn't realize all those steps went into the refurbishing process! That's so great to know. Best Buy gives it a parts and labour warranty of 90 days - does that seem adequate enough for purchase? It says the phone is "Refurbished Grade A, is fully functional and in excellent condition, it shows very light previous usage."

 

[18t]

The benefits of rooting are great, but I found it to be more of a pain than benefit. I do miss power widgets and root access with tasker, but I've gotten over it and probably won't go down that path again. Android is open enough for me to get my phone working the way I want it.

 

[Aquila]

The Pixel has a feature of Nougat that basically won't allow the phone to boot if it detects changes to the system image unless the bootloader also happens to be unlocked.

 

[quangtran1]

Thank you for this post. I am considering buying a refurbished Honor 8, and I'd be saving $100 if I bought it refurbished as opposed to new. I didn't realize all those steps went into the refurbishing process! That's so great to know. Best Buy gives it a parts and labour warranty of 90 days - does that seem adequate enough for purchase? It says the phone is "Refurbished Grade A, is fully functional and in excellent condition, it shows very light previous usage."

This is not to contradict what I wrote earlier, but to expound on "refurbishing" practices in general. When the carrier (Verizon, AT&T) or the OEM (Samsung, Motorola) ships you a certified replacement phone, you can rest assured that that device has gone through a stringent refurbishing process I detailed. That phone has my 100% confidence. However, the discount situation you wrote about at Best Buy, I would be more judicious. Here's why. Best Buy does not have technicians or equipment on site to thoroughly examine that phone. That phone was someone's return. You know when you return an item at Best Buy, the clerk asks "Has this been opened?" You could have been untruthful with your response. You could have removed a cable, a stylus, a charging block, etc. It's impossible for all Best Buy associates to know what components should be in every package it sells. I have the feeling that someone on the return inspection team simply glances at the package, and rebox it and stick it back on the sales floor. Then they slap a sticker on it stating "Inspected and reconditioned to like-new condition", or "Inspected and certified by Best Buy". They mark it down a few bucks and life goes on. It's not so much that I don't trust Best Buy, it's that I don't trust the person who returned it. That phone was not refurbished. It was simply repackaged, with very little technical assessment of the phone. In-store staff would have factory reset the phone, wiped off the screen, may have even run a carrier code to reset usage of the previous owner, but that's about it. So, in short, just because the Best Buy sticker says "refurbished", it's not the due diligence overhaul I wrote about. Sure, the 90-day warranty they have may give you some confidence. However, is it worth the hassles if you have issues later? One more point is this. Best Buy, Radio Shack, HH Gregg would not carry factory-refurbished phones. If they sent them to factories like mine to do a thorough recertification, they would sell them via the refurbished section on their web sites. In other words, what you see and touch at the stores are simply repackaged merchandise. I've had my share of coming home with missing cables, or swapped chargers, or missing manuals. Hope this helps.

 

[cydewaze]

The Pixel has a feature of Nougat that basically won't allow the phone to boot if it detects changes to the system image unless the bootloader also happens to be unlocked.

Yeah. I figured that by unrooting and doing a factory reset I'd be good, but apparently I missed a step.

 

[jimbo1mcm]

Well I've had a good bit of practice on my three previous phones. The thing is, knowing the nuances of rooting with one phone doesn't really make you an expert on another phone. The rooting processes for all the phones I've owned was a bit different. And even then, the rooting wasn't the problem. It was in trying to return the defective phone back to stock, something I probably (hopefully) won't have to do again.

But you're totally right about the Pixel being good out of the box. Out of all the phones I've had, it seems to beg for root the least. I'll lose Titanium backup, but I can just use Helium. I'll lose the ability of Power Toggles to toggle GPS and Airplane mode with a touch, but that's not the end of the world. A lot of things I used to need root for (like some Llama/Tasker functions, killing the annoying boot sounds, and banning things from the notification bar) all seem to work out of the box on the Pixel.

I'm leaning toward just using this as is.

With the latest 7.1.1 I really like the raise to wake. Reminds me of my Nexus 6.

 

[cydewaze]

With the latest 7.1.1 I really like the raise to wake. Reminds me of my Nexus 6.

I'm installing 7.1.1 as we speak. Err type.

 

[cydewaze]

However, the discount situation you wrote about at Best Buy, I would be more judicious. Here's why. Best Buy does not have technicians or equipment on site to thoroughly examine that phone. That phone was someone's return. You know when you return an item at Best Buy, the clerk asks "Has this been opened?" You could have been untruthful with your response. You could have removed a cable, a stylus, a charging block, etc.

Absolutely.

Case in point: I knew a guy some years ago who had a Playstation. He managed to break it (I think he said it fell off a shelf during a game), so he went to a store and bought a new one. He very carefully opened the box in a manner that wouldn't be obvious. He took pics of how the game was packaged, then took the thing apart and swapped the innards with the innards of the broken one. Then he repackaged it and resealed the box. Returned it to the store and made up some story about why he was returning it.

There's a 100% probability that that game went home with someone else at some point, and that person ended up with the broken unit.

 

[quangtran1]

Absolutely.

Case in point: I knew a guy some years ago who had a Playstation. He managed to break it (I think he said it fell off a shelf during a game), so he went to a store and bought a new one. He very carefully opened the box in a manner that wouldn't be obvious. He took pics of how the game was packaged, then took the thing apart and swapped the innards with the innards of the broken one. Then he repackaged it and resealed the box. Returned it to the store and made up some story about why he was returning it.

There's a 100% probability that that game went home with someone else at some point, and that person ended up with the broken unit.

There are so many people without conscience, or somehow can justify their behavior. Honest folks, in turn, get penalized with higher prices or stricter store policies.

 

[andrew_ackley]

See, I'm at the opposite end as far as refurbished phones go. For 15 years, I was the IT Director for the largest phone refurbisher in the Midwest and eastern US region. Our techs were trained and certified by the big boys, Motorola, Sony, Samsung, LG, Kyocera. We received hundreds of thousand phones for repair and recertification. OEMs, carriers, retailers like Best Buy and Radio Shack sent us phones that their customers returned under warranty. We saw phones from Magic Johnson, Walter Payton, famous actors, etc. It was really something. People don't realize this but a recertified phone is really awesome. One, every electronic device has a 6 or 7-month cook period. Defective components are likely to fail in these first 6, 7 months. We, and only we, with data from the OEMs, knew which components had a high fail rate. We then automatically substituted those components with improved engineered parts. Even when a capacitor was working fine, we replaced it automatically if our historical data demanded it. All parts were new, OEM original parts. We automatically replaced screen, battery, and antenna. Two, we flashed all phones with the latest drivers and firmwares at the component level. I'm talking about squeezing one more dBm out of a radio antenna, whatever. Three, we redid all solder joints to assure the phones work for years to come. Fourth, we cooked the phones under extreme heat test, cold test, and harsh conditions. So see, all these refurbished phones ended up being better than new phones that came off assembly lines. That was our refurbishing process, not just spraying some cleaner and wipe it off. And we weren't alone, I'm sure, as OEMs and carriers are very strict in selecting their refurbishers. They tour the facility, they make you become certified before they grant contracts. If I could, I would buy all of my electronics refurbished. I would even pay more for the peace knowing that someone else looked at my phone besides the OEM. I think people see what car dealerships do with so-called recertification process and think that's what phone refurbishers do. Car dealerships change oil on a used vehicle, visually inspect belts and hoses, detail the car, then put it back on the lot for sale. They don't stress test the water pump, the condenser, etc. A phone refurbisher does component level replacements.

This post deserves its own thread IMO.

 

[quangtran1]

This post deserves its own thread IMO.

Lol. I'm too busy as it is, won't have time to debate naysayers.

 

[cydewaze]

Lol. I'm too busy as it is, won't have time to debate naysayers.

I'm actually amazed at how few trolls there are on this forum. It's one of the things I really like about it.

Now, the cycling forum I occasionally visit, that has more trolls than contributing members. I've gone years between visits, and just pop in to see if things are any better, and they usually never are. Sort of ruins the whole point of having a forum, IMO.

 

[Morty2264]

This is not to contradict what I wrote earlier, but to expound on "refurbishing" practices in general. When the carrier (Verizon, AT&T) or the OEM (Samsung, Motorola) ships you a certified replacement phone, you can rest assured that that device has gone through a stringent refurbishing process I detailed. That phone has my 100% confidence. However, the discount situation you wrote about at Best Buy, I would be more judicious. Here's why. Best Buy does not have technicians or equipment on site to thoroughly examine that phone. That phone was someone's return. You know when you return an item at Best Buy, the clerk asks "Has this been opened?" You could have been untruthful with your response. You could have removed a cable, a stylus, a charging block, etc. It's impossible for all Best Buy associates to know what components should be in every package it sells. I have the feeling that someone on the return inspection team simply glances at the package, and rebox it and stick it back on the sales floor. Then they slap a sticker on it stating "Inspected and reconditioned to like-new condition", or "Inspected and certified by Best Buy". They mark it down a few bucks and life goes on. It's not so much that I don't trust Best Buy, it's that I don't trust the person who returned it. That phone was not refurbished. It was simply repackaged, with very little technical assessment of the phone. In-store staff would have factory reset the phone, wiped off the screen, may have even run a carrier code to reset usage of the previous owner, but that's about it. So, in short, just because the Best Buy sticker says "refurbished", it's not the due diligence overhaul I wrote about. Sure, the 90-day warranty they have may give you some confidence. However, is it worth the hassles if you have issues later? One more point is this. Best Buy, Radio Shack, HH Gregg would not carry factory-refurbished phones. If they sent them to factories like mine to do a thorough recertification, they would sell them via the refurbished section on their web sites. In other words, what you see and touch at the stores are simply repackaged merchandise. I've had my share of coming home with missing cables, or swapped chargers, or missing manuals. Hope this helps.

Wow, thank you so much! I really appreciate your response. I definitely understand what you're saying now, and really appreciate the effort you went through to write that!