Could Bionic be running a Type 1 baremetal hypervisor ?

[uiil]

I've been checking out phone forums and tech sites to figure out what device I was going to go with, but there were bits and pieces about the Bionic that just seemed odd.

For one thing, I have trouble believing that motorola's hardware had trouble getting android to play nice with LTE where HTC, Samsung, and LG seemed to have no problem.

Also, the official claims of ?protocol stack? troubles and redesigning due to CES customer feedback seem weird on their own. What kind of customer at a trade show can get a device yanked out of production; John Q. Public ? No, Techgeek enthusiast ? also No, Bulk device and service plan buying corporate IT departments ? yup thats probably it.

What do IT departments want to sprinkle on everything they touch, Virtualization.

A baremetal hypervisor sitting between android and moto's hardware would also be a very reasonable source for any protocol stack problems as well.

The TI OMAP4 definitely can have a baremetal hypervisor; CODEZERO Embedded Hypervisor | Secure Multicore Cortex-A9 embedded virtualization for Android Linux, Ubuntu, Nvidia Tegra2, TI OMAP4 Pandaboard, OMAP3 Beagleboard/news Codezero has a free one for omap4 on a pandaboard ? an arduinoish development platform.

Granted that just having omap4 in the bionic doesn't guarantee a baremetal hypervisor, but it does open the possibility for one.

 

[Castor Troy]

I think it's a pretty solid hypothesis. They are developing and extending support for the Tegra 2 platform as well. Perhaps Motorola didn't want to wait until it was ready for the platform.

It's the best speculation to date. NVIDIA always claimed there was never an issue with LTE and their chip. Damage control? Possibly. But it could also be the truth.

I say you may just be possibly right. Certainly plausable.

 

[Cruiserdude]

Sounds like a reasonable hypothesis to me. Winston has admitted that this isn't exactly targeted at the enthusiast, despite the hardware. It would make much more sense for Moto to make a dream device for IT managers rather than one for gamers and enthusiasts, as it would be much more of a game-changer, and likely deliver a lot more sales. It'll still run those games very well, and the average consumer isn't going to know or care whether their bootloader is locked or not and will still buy it because its the hottest thing.

I doubt that's the reason the Etna was actually cancelled, but its very plausible that that was the plan for the Targa from the beginning, and interest from corporate IT managers in such a device gave them more incentive to focus on that as opposed to continuing to work through Etna's issues.

Again, its a good theory, makes a lot of sense honestly. Also explains why they'd put together such powerful hardware while acting its not really aimed at enthusiasts. That means it'll very likely have a locked bootloader, but who knows, maybe Moto will release some development tools for the IT world that would allow access to the hypervisor. Seems kinda silly not to, honestly, and of course this would let people run multiple OS'es virtualized on the same device.

Come to think of it, they could have based that idea off the Atrix. We now know that Webtop is actually a modified Debian distro, and they just run an instance of X-server alongside the Dalvik VM, allowing them to simultaneously access resources from the same kernel. This is likely the cause of the less than stellar performance of the Atrix given its hardware, and maybe they decided that running multiple OS'es on a hypervisor would be a better solution. Of course this would be an obvious benefit to the IT types, which appears to be their target customer base these days.

Good thinking!

 

[uiil]

I haven't really dug too deep into the details on the Atrix ,but the Atrix / citrix /webtop method seems to be an older style thin client app running in android that just opens a “dumb terminal” window for user I/O to a server in a corporate data center where all the actual processing is done and data is stored. Nothing gets processed or stored on the atrix itself unless the server explicitly allows it, and then it gets run and stored within android? When server security control is set high, Mr. corporate salesman has no access to client data if his atrix loses coverage / no wifi. With more lax security control, Mr. corporate salesman can save client data to the atrix, but that client data is stored in android and winds up accessible to the malware hidden in the angribyrdzcheets app Mr. salesman downloaded during lunch.

Again I could be wrong, but it also seems that the atrix requires all corporate data center apps to be run through a citrix installation in the data center.

In a baremetal hypervisor bionic, android could be unaware of the hypervisor as well as any other OS the hypervisor had loaded alongside android. When Mr. corporate salesman wants to access client data, android opens up what it sees as a “dumb terminal” again but this terminal connects to apps in the hidden corporate approved OS the hypervisor has loaded on the bionic alongside android. This hidden corporate area can do some processing / storage on its own as well as communicate with the corporate data center. Mr. salesman can access client data when there is no coverage, but neither android or the malware in the angribyrdzcheets app would even be aware the client data exists. The baremetal hypervisor bionic could do this without requiring citrix in the data center.

There might even be the option to bail out of android and work directly in the corporate approved OS, but that would probably make everything feel bloated, so thats probably a longshot.

The target buyer for such a device would most likely be corporate IT departments.

As to a locked bootloader, even the concept of a bootloader might become irrelevant.

Whoever controls the Dom-0 OS has control of hypervisor and thereby control of the device.

Android might not be the Dom-0 OS, meaning it might not contain the “service console” to the hypervisor. The Dom-0 might be a sanitized and stripped down OS without any kind of user input / output capability running simultaneously to, but isolated from android.

 

[Cvballa3g0]

What's a baremetal hypovisor?

EDIT: Nevermind, I Googled it.

 

[Asterdroid]

I'm fairly certain the delay is because they're adding a flux capacitor to the Bionic.


All kidding aside, though, this is certainly possible.

 

[bworley50]

I've been checking out phone forums and tech sites to figure out what device I was going to go with, but there were bits and pieces about the Bionic that just seemed odd.

For one thing, I have trouble believing that motorola's hardware had trouble getting android to play nice with LTE where HTC, Samsung, and LG seemed to have no problem.

Also, the official claims of ?protocol stack? troubles and redesigning due to CES customer feedback seem weird on their own. What kind of customer at a trade show can get a device yanked out of production; John Q. Public ? No, Techgeek enthusiast ? also No, Bulk device and service plan buying corporate IT departments ? yup thats probably it.

What do IT departments want to sprinkle on everything they touch, Virtualization.

A baremetal hypervisor sitting between android and moto's hardware would also be a very reasonable source for any protocol stack problems as well.

The TI OMAP4 definitely can have a baremetal hypervisor; CODEZERO Embedded Hypervisor | Secure Multicore Cortex-A9 embedded virtualization for Android Linux, Ubuntu, Nvidia Tegra2, TI OMAP4 Pandaboard, OMAP3 Beagleboard/news Codezero has a free one for omap4 on a pandaboard ? an arduinoish development platform.

Granted that just having omap4 in the bionic doesn't guarantee a baremetal hypervisor, but it does open the possibility for one.

Is this relevant to this discussion??

Motorola Mobility acquires 3LM, an Android enterprise security designer
Posted: 15 Feb 2011, 00:00, by Ken N.
Categories: Motorola, Android, Software
Bookmark.Share this pageiscuss0 .Motorola Mobility announced today that they have acquired 3LM (Three Laws Mobility). If this were any normal acquisition, it might not be newsworthy, but 3LM is an enterprise security designer, specializing in the Android operating system.

The addition of better enterprise security will strengthen Android's appeal as an enterprise solution, making it even more competitive with the iconic BlackBerry operating system.

3LM specifically specializes in providing easy-to-use, cost-efficient security solutions that address the concerns of today's IT professionals. "Along with their technology, the 3LM team brings deep knowledge and expertise in the development of enterprise security features and software for Android," said Christy Wyatt, corporate VP of software and services product management at Motorola Mobility.

While the Android OS has been enjoying impressive growth in the consumer smartphone market, RIM's BlackBerry OS remains the standard for enterprise security. The integration of higher-level encryption, and the reputation of 3LM will imbue Android with more corporate-friendly potential.

Motorola is of course excited to add 3LM's security to their own devices, but they also plan to offer 3LM's solutions to other device manufacturers. Motorola reports that their device management solutions should be available by Q2 of 2011.

 

[uiil]

Re: Motorola Mobility acquires 3LM, an Android enterprise security designer

If motorola has put together a device capable of Full Virtualization ( down to the hardware ), then technically all security, communication, and encryption could by apps in a completely different operating system running in parallel to but separate from android on the same device.

3LM might be there for producing a secure interface in android to link to the secure OS running alongside it.

Or.. If android actually is the Dom-0 OS, 3LM might be there to lock down the "service console" access the Dom-0 has for controlling the hypervisor.

Still just speculating at this point, but it sure smells like moto is going after RIM and not in a marketing rah rah pep talk kind of way. Their engineers have pulled some pretty sharp tech knives.

 

[bworley50]

Re: Motorola Mobility acquires 3LM, an Android enterprise security designer

If motorola has put together a device capable of Full Virtualization ( down to the hardware ), then technically all security, communication, and encryption could by apps in a completely different operating system running in parallel to but separate from android on the same device.

3LM might be there for producing a secure interface in android to link to the secure OS running alongside it.

Or.. If android actually is the Dom-0 OS, 3LM might be there to lock down the "service console" access the Dom-0 has for controlling the hypervisor.

Still just speculating at this point, but it sure smells like moto is going after RIM and not in a marketing rah rah pep talk kind of way. Their engineers have pulled some pretty sharp tech knives.

As they should. RIMM's only place in the market now is E-mail encryption on the corporate level. If MMI pulls this off, it would be awesome. I would say your hypothesis is MUCH more than speculation. Good work.

 

[uiil]

Motorola and Verizon may be playing it tight lipped, but in general virtualization companies and open source orgs are screaming about getting on mobile devices. So much so that even good google-fu results in information overload.

However, I did find one bit that shows a lot of coincidences with the timing of the Bionic.

"In December of 2010 President Obama signed HR 1722, the Telework Enhancement Act of 2010. Basically this means that every Federal Agency has, now, less than 6 months to come up with a telework strategy for nearly 2 million federal employees."

Motorola is not just after corporate IT business, they're going after Federal IT contracts that have to be inked just about now.

More from a fairly decent blog here: XEN-trifuge

 

[bworley50]

Motorola and Verizon may be playing it tight lipped, but in general virtualization companies and open source orgs are screaming about getting on mobile devices. So much so that even good google-fu results in information overload.

However, I did find one bit that shows a lot of coincidences with the timing of the Bionic.

"In December of 2010 President Obama signed HR 1722, the Telework Enhancement Act of 2010. Basically this means that every Federal Agency has, now, less than 6 months to come up with a telework strategy for nearly 2 million federal employees."

Motorola is not just after corporate IT business, they're going after Federal IT contracts that have to be inked just about now.

More from a fairly decent blog here: XEN-trifuge

sounds like military

 

[Castor Troy]

I'm seriously impressed with what you have come up with. Like bworley just said I think this goes way beyond speculation at this point. This is a very solid hypothesis. By George I think you dun cracked the code

 

[uiil]

Now if I could just formulate a plan to lock in unlimited data before the 7th, that's gonna be hard.

 

[bworley50]

Now if I could just formulate a plan to lock in unlimited data before the 7th, that's gonna be hard.

If you already have it, you're good.

 

[fundragon]

I'm fairly certain the delay is because they're adding a flux capacitor to the Bionic.

The hard part isn't the flux capacitor, it's a battery that can generate 1.21 gigawatts...

 

[Cruiserdude]

I haven't really dug too deep into the details on the Atrix ,but the Atrix / citrix /webtop method seems to be an older style thin client app running in android that just opens a ?dumb terminal? window for user I/O to a server in a corporate data center where all the actual processing is done and data is stored. Nothing gets processed or stored on the atrix itself unless the server explicitly allows it, and then it gets run and stored within android? When server security control is set high, Mr. corporate salesman has no access to client data if his atrix loses coverage / no wifi. With more lax security control, Mr. corporate salesman can save client data to the atrix, but that client data is stored in android and winds up accessible to the malware hidden in the angribyrdzcheets app Mr. salesman downloaded during lunch.

Again I could be wrong, but it also seems that the atrix requires all corporate data center apps to be run through a citrix installation in the data center.

In a baremetal hypervisor bionic, android could be unaware of the hypervisor as well as any other OS the hypervisor had loaded alongside android. When Mr. corporate salesman wants to access client data, android opens up what it sees as a ?dumb terminal? again but this terminal connects to apps in the hidden corporate approved OS the hypervisor has loaded on the bionic alongside android. This hidden corporate area can do some processing / storage on its own as well as communicate with the corporate data center. Mr. salesman can access client data when there is no coverage, but neither android or the malware in the angribyrdzcheets app would even be aware the client data exists. The baremetal hypervisor bionic could do this without requiring citrix in the data center.

There might even be the option to bail out of android and work directly in the corporate approved OS, but that would probably make everything feel bloated, so thats probably a longshot.

The target buyer for such a device would most likely be corporate IT departments.

As to a locked bootloader, even the concept of a bootloader might become irrelevant.

Whoever controls the Dom-0 OS has control of hypervisor and thereby control of the device.

Android might not be the Dom-0 OS, meaning it might not contain the ?service console? to the hypervisor. The Dom-0 might be a sanitized and stripped down OS without any kind of user input / output capability running simultaneously to, but isolated from android.

That makes a lot of sense honestly, and may be just the thing to kick-start Moto back into the lead in the Android game. Have a bare-bones Linux OS running as the dom0, with just a basic CLI interface that requires an administrator password to use. Anyone with admin rights could then access it through a bash terminal in the Android OS, or SSH into it whenever its online, and make changes to the applications installed on that OS, change its access rights when connected to a secure server, and change what level of access the domU Android OS has to the dom0 secure OS. Come to think of it, this could be why Moto was pursuing development of their own linux OS, as the domU doesn't necessarily have to be Android. Some clients may feel that Android is too frivolous or distracting, that it just wouldn't be "serious" enough for their needs and could choose a more basic, business-oriented OS. After all, executives may not relish the idea of ditching Blackberries just to watch all their employees play Angry Birds on company time...

Anyway, the admin could still allow the user as much access to corporate databases as they wanted, by changing the dom0's clearances and allowing the user access to that data through apps in Android that are basically front-ends for applications in the secure OS. But by the same token, they could actually grant the secure OS a higher clearance than the user, allowing it to access data, and even store it on the device, that the user doesn't necessarily have access to. This way they could be quickly granted access to certain data on an as-needed basis, or phones could be made interchangeable among employees by simply forcing a login for the front-end apps in Android that would be tied to your respective access rights. Therefore all the phones could have access to all relevant databases, and important info stored on the device, but each employee would only be able to use what they needed to, and if the phone was lost, there wouldn't be much concern over this data falling into the wrong hands, as it would obviously be encrypted and whoever found it wouldn't have the key, or a valid login.

Kinda funny to think about phones having higher security clearances than the employees using them, but its actually pretty genius. OMAP4 hardware should be powerful enough to handle this just fine, and I'm sure the dom0 secure OS could simply remain dormant, or even be deactivated on consumer phones, not really sure how they'd handle that. But if they could land a number of corporate and/or federal (incl. military) IT contracts, they could care less if they missed out on consumer sales for one summer. I hope this is their plan, as I really do like Motorola and hope they continue to do well, I just haven't been impressed at all with their recent efforts. If this is their plan, these phones have to be a LOT more stable and well-implemented than Atrix or DX2...

 

[Asterdroid]

The hard part isn't the flux capacitor, it's a battery that can generate 1.21 gigawatts...

Don't worry. Seidio will have one for sale a couple weeks after release.

 

[anicholas7]

I think you guys just screwed all of us waiting for the Bionic.
This whole hypothesis about baremental hypervisor sounds so good that if Moto didn't think of this and reads this thread they just might cancel what ever they were up to that delayed the phone in the first place and work on the Type 1 baremetal hypervisor. THANKS!!!!

 

[Cruiserdude]

Haha don't worry. If this type of thing isn't already running on the Bionic, they won't stop to add it now. Something like that has to be built in from the beginning, they're not gonna go for another ground up redesign when this phone is almost ready for launch.

While its a great idea, and fascinating speculation, I highly doubt Motorola didn't already consider this, even if it won't be in the Bionic, though I have a feeling it will.

 

[uiil]

For anybody who has bumped into this thread and gotten a WTF headache.

Its a bit heavy on marketing-ese, and I have no clue if these guys are even remotely involved with motorola; but RedBend who bought out VirtualLogix has a decent overview explaining virtualization on a mobile device here: http://www.redbend.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=133:mobile-virtualization-how-it-works&catid=33&Itemid=61&lang=en