Development and Testing

[NJ Fred]

Why are ICS, GB before it, etc. not tested more extensively before being released? The many threads on this website make it clear that many issues exist; issues that should (and probably could) have been discovered and remedied before the product was distributed.

I somewhat understand (but do not embrace) the lust of Motorola and other hardware manufacturers to push-out as many new devices as they can. America's zest to "keep up with The Joneses" by having the latest gizmos and gadgets is legendary.

Droid 3 quickly succeeded by Droid 4 then Droid Bionic, Razr, Razr Maxx and who knows what's warming up in the bull pen. And, predictably, many high-ticket accessories will not work with the newer model. Either the charging connector is a fraction of an inch off (so car kits, etc. are useless) or other such after-sale items can be cast into the garbage.

And before someone else underscores it, I will. No one puts a gun to anybody's head and foces them to plunk down hundreds of dollars to up grade ad infinitum. But we all yearn for the better mousetrap so we line up at the cellular store on a new phone's release date as if we were waiting for concert tickets or the latest video game.

But I'm off the flight path. Simply said, I find it somewhat disconcerting that operating systems are released with so many flaws. It is obscene to see signal strength deteriorate, battery power ebbed with zero improvements, etcetera and so forth.

I would like to think Motorola, Google, Schmoogle and whomever else concocts these systems would summon up a little pride. The type of pride that - as wines sellers Ernest and Julio Gallo once espoused: "we will sell no wine before its time."

Yes, wouldn't it be nice to just "take something out of the wrapper" and move forward with the reasonable expectation that it will function as advertised? Is that really too much to ask???

End of rant.

 

[MikeLip]

Have you ever developed for a system with a user base as large as Android? With hundreds of thousands of apps and hundreds of international localizations to deal with? You should go read Raymond Chens' blog over at Microsoft - whatever you think of MS, it's a good read and often highlights the problems faced by a large, international software supplier - you know, like Google. The short story is that not Google, not Microsoft, not Apple will ever ever EVER release bug free software, or software that plays nice with every conceivable combination of hardware and applications. There are just too many. They try to pound out bugs in the alpha and beta phases, but even in a very mature product you will still have conflicts, crashes and unexpected behavior. Apple controls their ecosystem *very* tightly, but stuff slips by even them. So if you are looking for bug free software, you are in the wrong universe.

 

[NJ Fred]

No, I do not think I am. The bugs identified by those who post here are clear, baseline issues that could have been cured prior to release.

I am not talking about compatibility with a program or two. Rather, I am talking about core issues like signal strength and power.

Have you digested all the problems posted here? Do you sincerely believe it is unreasonable to expect these root issues to have been identified and fixed before some techie pressed the "send" button?

Sorry, but the manufacturer does not deserve to get off that easy. It is time for these firms to rediscover their pride and get back to the ethic of when their label was synonymous with trust, excellence, reliability, etc.

If that expectation puts me in another universe, then perhaps it's not such a bad place to be.

 

[MikeLip]

No, I do not think I am. The bugs identified by those who post here are clear, baseline issues that could have been cured prior to release.

I am not talking about compatibility with a program or two. Rather, I am talking about core issues like signal strength and power.

Have you digested all the problems posted here? Do you sincerely believe it is unreasonable to expect these root issues to have been identified and fixed before some techie pressed the "send" button?

Sorry, but the manufacturer does not deserve to get off that easy. It is time for these firms to rediscover their pride and get back to the ethic of when their label was synonymous with trust, excellence, reliability, etc.

If that expectation puts me in another universe, then perhaps it's not such a bad place to be.

Well, you seem to think that those issues are universal. They are not. I am not having any of them and neither are many others. So if they actually exist, and I'm not saying they don't, then if they were actual base software problems EVERYONE SHOULD NOW HAVE THEM. Not everyone does. Software does not selectively screw up - it always screws up the same way in the same conditions. The conditions are obviously not the same for everyone. Therefore it seems reasonable to me that whatever the problems is, it could have been missed during the test phase, or affected so few people that Motorola did not consider it worth putting off the release to fix it. Don't forget that the people posting here are not a statistically significant group or anywhere close to the average user population. We are the ones who are very aware of how our devices work and are the very first to jump on a problem as soon as it shows up. I bet if you handed your low signal phone to some average joe or some teen kid, they'd go ahead and use it without blinking an eye and the shortcomings that bother you.

 

[NJ Fred]

Please stick to what I say, not what you unilaterally conclude I am thinking.

My point was and is that software, hardware, etc. seems to be puked out before it has undergone rigorous testing. And to expand on your logic, it is not reasonable to think that those who do not post here, those who simply pay their money and turn the product on might just be the "silent sufferers" who either take their complaints to Verizon or just swallow?

And when you state "the people posting here are not a statistically significant group or anywhere close to the average user population," you make an assertion that can be argued from several perspectives.

Debate it however you choose. The facts are clear. We, "he ones who are very aware of how our devices work and are the very first to jump on a problem" seem to have identified root issues that should have been recognized by those who are prob ably much more technically adept than us - those whom we pay to sell us a product that merely does what it is advertised to do.

It is just sad when mediocrity rules the roost and we are sermonized to accept it as the norm. Very sad garnished with a pinch of the tragic.

 

[p08757]

No, I do not think I am. The bugs identified by those who post here are clear, baseline issues that could have been cured prior to release.

Can you list a few that are global? Mine seems to be running fine.

 

[NJ Fred]

The ones that I seem to be reading about the most are signal strength and battery power.

My Droid 3 was always at full signal in and around my neighborhood. Razr Maxx (on ICS) does 2-3 bars on either 3g or 4g.

Battery drain, on my device, is no different from Droid 3 running GB (I have never rooted my phones).

 

[MikeLip]

The ones that I seem to be reading about the most are signal strength and battery power.
.

Exactly. The ones you seem to be reading about the most. How many people have reported it among how many members who have upgraded? Yeah, there are a few. But I'm going to guess nowhere near the total population of the board. And when someone has a problem they are going to be vocal about it. When they don't, they aren't.

My point, which you miss, is that YOU said it was a base problem. It's not a base problem. If it was a base problem everyones phone would now be screwed up. That is not the case. It's a specific device and/or configuration problem that does not affect everyone. So yeah, it most certainly can be missed. If you're having the problem, that sucks and I'm sorry you're unhappy. But not everyone is in the same boat you are.

I'm not forgiving the fact the Moto seems to have missed this one. But I am arguing the assertion inherent in your argument that it's universal, which is what base problem would mean.

 

[NJ Fred]

It is a base problem. Signal strength and battery drain are the foundations of total functionality. When I need to make a call and I cannot do so it is most perturbing. And when my state of the art device cannot lock-in the signal a less sophisticated predecessor could, then I think I have a right to be mildly angry.

Even epidemics skip over some. And when cars are recalled, not every vehicle has the defect that made the recall necessary.

"Universal" is your choice of words; not mine.

My point is that more extensive testing pre-release is not and unreasonable expectation from consumers.

 

[MikeLip]

It is a base problem. Signal strength and battery drain are the foundations of total functionality. When I need to make a call and I cannot do so it is most perturbing. And when my state of the art device cannot lock-in the signal a less sophisticated predecessor could, then I think I have a right to be mildly angry.

Even epidemics skip over some. And when cars are recalled, not every vehicle has the defect that made the recall necessary.

"Universal" is your choice of words; not mine.

My point is that more extensive testing pre-release is not and unreasonable expectation from consumers.

It skipped more than some! All right, lets break this down. You have a phone. It was reporting signal OK under GB. Lets say under a fixed set of conditions you are getting an awesome signal of -70dB. Under ICS and the identical conditions you are getting -140dB. I have the IDENTICAL phone - in theory anyway. In theory. We will get to that. I start off with -70dB, update and STILL have -70dB. What is different? Not the software. The software comes from the same repository and same release. The phones though, they are different. There could have been a change in the radio chips, or the signal processing chips, from one batch of phones to the next - that happens all the time in IC manufacture. You change a die, think your customer will never notice because they specs remain the same, but you break their product in some unexpected way. You could have software loaded that I do not, which is somehow messing up how ICS is talking to the radio or screwing up AGC or something. See what I'm saying here? The only thing exactly the same between me and you is the operating system. Yet my phone is OK. Yours is not. The OS is the same. But something in your phone does not play well with ICS, and that something is not present in my phone.

Now, if a few percent of the people who get ICS report this, that's a problem for Moto. But it's not a baseline code problem - it's not like they screwed up the code that turns on wifi and now no one in the world who owns this phone and code release can talk wifi. THAT'S a base problem. It's an unexpected interaction with something different about your phone, and depending on the percentages of people who have the issue (and it's not zero percent) Moto may choose to release depending on market pressure. You will recall everyone here was screaming and having hissy fits that ISC wasn't out. You can bet they were under pressure to get that code out. I remember ZDNet taking about it too, and you can bet Moto pays more attention to them than us here at AF. And of course, if you waited for the software engineers to be completely happy, we'd be waiting until the heat death of the universe.

So, you know, sorry your phone's broke. I'd go to your carrier and complain. It should not have happened. It did and needs to be fixed. I'm not saying ICS is perfect. It's not, which given the complexities I mentioned a while ago is inevitable almost by definition. And there may be a patch coming to fix whatever the interaction issue is. Meanwhile they have to own up and deal with it.

 

[NJ Fred]

I believe we concur in principle.

 

[LegalAmerican]

I am so happy with the way that Google develops, tests, and pushes out updates and upgrades to Moto and Verizon. I wish Verizon and Moto would get through the provess quicker. I LOVE my Razr Maxx with ICS. It works flawlessly and it has zero "core" problems.

For those who want something that has been tested more rigorously or thoroughly, I bet you can find a few OG Droids on Craigslist. You might also try some of the Android's still running Donut or Eclair.

To any developer/tester who had a hand in ICS and MIGHT (probably wont) read this, GREAT JOB! You've done most of us very proud.

 

[MikeLip]

That's all that matters Seriously, it's vexing to have a screwed up phone. I live on mine. If it broke I'd be up a creek. I might even have to go back to my Blackberry 9930. The Maxx is the first smartphone that was ever able to get me off BB - not even the iPhone 4 managed to do that. My daughter is happily using the iPhone, and my BB collection sits idle. Although the Bold is a work of art.

 

[trucksmoveamerica#AC]

Just because everyone does not have a problem with signal/battery does not mean that the problem is not there. I have already stated that the problem with signal is in rural areas, and in some lower signal areas in the city.

Now with that said, if all verizon phones would act up in these areas, then its a low signal issue. But that is not the case, the maxx worked just fine when it was on GB. And the iphones and other phones I have on verizon always have at least 10 dbm better signal then the maxx, and the ICS phones in the verizon corp store in minneapolis were all showing lower signal then the non ICS phones.

So my guess is most people are experiencing the signal issue, but the phone works for them because they are in the city with stronger signals so they dont notice it as much. Get out of the city and off the interstate and see what happens. Again, I will point out the signal issue was not there while on GB, it appeared when on ICS. So I ask for a explanation of why it changed when ICS came out? I am also going by dbm, not the signal bar on the notification bar. The maxx does not grab signal like it did on GB, and I am sure most people are having this issue, just dont notice it as much because they are in a stronger area, wait till you get off the beaten path for vacation. I would not be complaining if there was a issue on GB to, but there was not, so what was changed....., went to ICS. So motorola, google, or verizon need to figure out what got changed in ICS to cause this.

I have looked thru 10 pages of screenshots of the maxx on ICS, and 90% of the screenshots show the phones signal of 2 bars or less, and was noticed by some posters.

The OP was right on this thread. The soak test was short, and it was pushed out at the last minute to keep on time with ICS being released by end of 2nd quarter. There should have been more testing IMO.

And look at the forums since the release of ICS. On GB, there were very, very few complaints of problems, after ICS the forums are full of complaints, that speaks volumes IMO.

 

[rbess1965]

To those of you that are not having any issues with your phones after the update, congrats and I can tell from your dialog that you are way more intelligent than I, especially on this matter, so I'll just say this as a very average user. (MikeLip knows this because he just helped me out with a OE issue

My main problem is this. The Razr Maxx brought back my faith in reliability. I wasn't feeling that at all on my old Droid Charge. I began recommending this phone at work because it just seemed so solid, in form and function. My group supplies the wireless equipment to our management and approved employees. It’s a rather large company and a majority of them want iphone and BB’s due to the reliability factor. After owning the Maxx on GB, I could confidently recommend it to them as an alternative. GB worked well on the Maxx and the pre-ICS posts on this forum proved that. Now on ICS, I’m having difficulty bringing myself to continue recommending it. Post ICS there have been 'too many' new posts on issues from all of us who aren't lucky enough to have devices running perfectly. The existence of this post is proof enough of that fact.

I've always preferred the path of least restriction and hate Apple for being so tight, but when it comes to business application and executive use, the device has to be RELIABLE. Look, innovation and experimentation is fine and required for advancement but you've got to test it more extensively before you market it or you just lose business to Apple or someone else. So I'm going to have to agree with Fred’s original thought on this one. They are not doing enough to make sure these things are reliable first, FOR EVERYONE, and if there is some process that we should be doing to insure reliability, then tell us at roll out or something. I’ve performed the factory reset and I’ve cleared the cache’, twice. Due to the ICS OS, I still have issue's here and there that make this a less reliable device now, in my average opinion. I hope future updates will resolve the issues of the rest of us.

I think the Windows phone marketing campaign was brilliant and right. We are all just part of one massive experiment. Some have good experiences while others don't but I would venture to guess that ALL of us just want our phones to work.

I also want to say that I'm not having a terrible experience with ICS, just not one good enough to justify the time I now have to spend tinkering and tweaking a device that once was working perfectly. That's what makes this update feel like a down grade and I hate that.

 

[LegalAmerican]

GB had LOADS of complaints just like anything else. It's so easy to forget that and pretend like it was perfect when in reality, it was not. Sure, i've had a few issues with ICS. But i've had issues with almost every piece of electronic equipment i've ever owned.

 

[p08757]

The ones that I seem to be reading about the most are signal strength and battery power.

My Droid 3 was always at full signal in and around my neighborhood. Razr Maxx (on ICS) does 2-3 bars on either 3g or 4g.

Battery drain, on my device, is no different from Droid 3 running GB (I have never rooted my phones).

With signal strength, I really pay no attention at how many bars I have or what DB level the phone says I'm at. I pay attention to whether I have internet connectivity or not. Some times I think people read too much into those stats. I can say without a doubt I get internet (3g/4g) every place I did before the ICS upgrade. That?s all that matters to me. Your milage may vary.

Battery life can be so different from device to device depending what you have loaded and how its being used. I know there were a few settings I had to tweak before I was fully happy with battery life on my Maxx after the ICS update.

 

[NJ Fred]

With signal strength, I really pay no attention at how many bars I have or what DB level the phone says I'm at. I pay attention to whether I have internet connectivity or not. Some times I think people read too much into those stats. I can say without a doubt I get internet (3g/4g) every place I did before the ICS upgrade. That?s all that matters to me. Your milage may vary.

Battery life can be so different from device to device depending what you have loaded and how its being used. I know there were a few settings I had to tweak before I was fully happy with battery life on my Maxx after the ICS update.

Clearly, you make a valid observation. In my case, however, the reduced signal strength appearing on the bar graph seems to be most accurate as proven via "no internet connection" messages which I did not experience with my Droid 3 running unrooted GB.

 

[p08757]

Clearly, you make a valid observation. In my case, however, the reduced signal strength appearing on the bar graph seems to be most accurate as proven via "no internet connection" messages which I did not experience with my Droid 3 running unrooted GB.

Every type of phone has unique antena design. Your Droid 3 may very well get better reception than the Maxx. That doesn't mean that there is a software bug in ICS for the Razr and Razr Maxx, it just means you could get a better connection with your Droid 3.

On fringe areas with very low levels of signal strength, like in my office at work, I notice that factors like the weather seem to also have an affect on signal strength. For me and my circumstances on very cloudy days I seem get better connectiviey versus clear sunny days. This has happened on all recient devices I've owned going back to the OG Droid. I guess the point I'm trying to make is several factors will affect how your phone works, and its impossible for any company to test in every environment.

 

[cgaines2101]

I just downloaded ICS yesterday. Charged the phone last night. I have played with this thing all day. The operating system is not draining my battery anything near my screen because I keep looking at it and fine tuning the functions to suit me. I have 18 apps that I have personally downloaded to my device. (This is a VERY low number for me but since I have only had the phone for about 45 days, I have been simply testing the apps slowly.) I have been on WiFi all day as well. I have handled email, social networks and play a few games to boot. Not to mention all the device how to videos I have been watching.

That said, I have about 60% which puts me at another day of use before a charge is needed. So that is still pretty fair on battery for me. Estimated I will get about a day and a half. My signal strength is great. The speed is great. No lag. At first I was skeptical on the change but I am liking it with each new thing I learn.

As for the testing and evaluation of the operating system prior to release, It seems presumptuous to think that they don't do this prior to release. However they can't gauge the general publics individual tastes on their app and software selections and how the upgrades will be effected by every single possibility and combination out there. So many people jump into downloading the next greatest OS only so they can start complaining about how long they have to wait until JB or why can't I have my GB back because lots of people will just never be satisfied. Ever thought that maybe the lack of patience of the general public is the biggest cause for the random posts of complaining?