Engadget: Verizon switching to AT&T-style limited data plans later this month?

[Menno]

So, how do they know if you are tethering or not if all the data is passing through the phone?

Because tethering typically uses different gateways. Some apps like PDA net supposedly bypass this, but they can also tell my usage, and volume (not 5gb so much, but if you're using 20gb+ a month, it's pretty much guarenteed your tethering)

As for the actual story, think about this.

The news story said that Verizon might be going to caps later this month, and then they posted the caps ATT has on their account. They didn't post ANYTHING about what verizon caps would be, or what the price point is.

For all we know, it could be 5gb for 10 or 5gb for 100.

Personally, I don't see them really doing this until they have a 4g network in place (though a lower tiered data plan might work to try and get people to make smartphone jump). I'm not saying it won't happen, but I really doubt they'll match ATT exactly on this.

 

[nalpakj]

Do the math; you get screwed when these caps are implemented.

It isn't so much about how much data you use, it's about gigabytes/dollar ratio.

I disagree with this completely. It's not about the ratio if the GB are not being used. It's about value. If you only use 1gb per month then you can't base your value on 2gb. That's like going to Costco and buying the 10 gallon multi-pack of milk because it's cheap but you only go through 1 gallon before it spoils. Your gallon/dollar ratio is irrelevent...the fact is you only drank 1 gallon of milk and paid for 10.

For most of us, this type of plan is advantagous. I rarely (and by rarely I mean on once) have gone over 1.5gb.

 

[Menno]

I disagree with this completely. It's not about the ratio if the GB are not being used. It's about value. If you only use 1gb per month then you can't base your value on 2gb. That's like going to Costco and buying the 10 gallon multi-pack of milk because it's cheap but you only go through 1 gallon before it spoils. Your gallon/dollar ratio is irrelevent...the fact is you only drank 1 gallon of milk and paid for 10.

For most of us, this type of plan is advantagous. I rarely (and by rarely I mean on once) have gone over 1.5gb.

I easily use 3gb. But that's because I'm not near strong wifi most of the time. I'm moving to an area that has a lot of wifi available so my usage will go down.

I agree that this could be a boon for users. But they need to do it right. I think 2gb for 25 is too low considering they don't have issues with their network like att, and Tethering should be part of your usual plan, this is for wifi and wired.

And they need to improve their my verizon usage to make sure it's accurate and realtime.

 

[Qazme]

I disagree with this completely. It's not about the ratio if the GB are not being used. It's about value. If you only use 1gb per month then you can't base your value on 2gb. That's like going to Costco and buying the 10 gallon multi-pack of milk because it's cheap but you only go through 1 gallon before it spoils. Your gallon/dollar ratio is irrelevent...the fact is you only drank 1 gallon of milk and paid for 10.

For most of us, this type of plan is advantagous. I rarely (and by rarely I mean on once) have gone over 1.5gb.

I agree with you completely. However I like having the untier/unlimited pricing in case I decide I'm going on a road trip and want to stream music the whole time. Before I had a WiFi enabled phone I used to easily go over 3-4GB a month but with WiFi I rarely see over a GB a month. If the pricing was right I wouldn't complain at all. If they wanted to drop me to $10-15 a month for 2GB I would seriously think about biting on it.

 

[dragozoid]

I don't think this will affect existing customers; Only those who sign up w/Verizon after they launch their tiered plans. ATT grandfathered people even when they extended their contracts after June 7 so I would assume Verizon would follow suit especially since they're not having network congestion like ATT.

 

[Menno]

I agree with you completely. However I like having the untier/unlimited pricing in case I decide I'm going on a road trip and want to stream music the whole time. Before I had a WiFi enabled phone I used to easily go over 3-4GB a month but with WiFi I rarely see over a GB a month. If the pricing was right I wouldn't complain at all. If they wanted to drop me to $10-15 a month for 2GB I would seriously think about biting on it.

Verizon execs have said on record that they don't want to make their tiered pricing so that someone wanting to stream radio has to worry about overages.

Also, if it's anything like their current tiered pricing, the lower tier won't be attractive at all.

 

[hookedonpepsi22]

I'm thinking about ordering a smartphone, most likely the Droid X, from the Verizon website within the next few days. If it arrived after they proposed the change how would my data plan work out? Do you change your plan when you order the phone and is that when it takes effect?

 

[Rob.G]

I have two smartphones and one Broadband line with Verizon. My broadband line started about three years ago before the 5GB cap went into effect. I use over 10GB per month (several months have topped 20GB), since this is my only 'net connection, as I travel around in an RV for work... contract to contract.

I would be miffed if they capped data limits on the smartphones. I know I would be grandfathered in as long as I didn't make any changes to the plan. So I need to be sure to disable my $20/mo hotspot feature, since it doesn't work with my iPad anyway (and I can USB tether it for free with PDANet).... but one of the main reasons I got the Droid X was to be able to stream Pandora while driving... that and Trapster, which is always downloading maps.

Depending on what they come up with, if it's within my 30-day return period, I might just return the DX, go back to my POS BB Storm until my contract runs out, and go back to a flip-phone (from eBay, so there would be no new contract). I think these data caps may come back to bite them in the butt. Or at least I hope they do.

Rob

 

[Qazme]

Verizon execs have said on record that they don't want to make their tiered pricing so that someone wanting to stream radio has to worry about overages.

Also, if it's anything like their current tiered pricing, the lower tier won't be attractive at all.

Really? What if they offer a 2GB plan for $25 a month, no unlimited teiring and you use 4GB a month using data/streaming music? What that tells me if they did say that is they will offer an unlimited tier still possibly. But it's more than likely not going to be $30 a month. Would be nice if the pricing broke down something like:

500MB - $10
2GB - $20
Unlimited - $30

Would be awesome, so then people who aren't as data heavy could reap the benefits of a cheaper monthly bill, Verizon could reap the benefits of overages, and everyone else can still have unlimited. I can just see that unlimited tier(if they do it like that) being $60 a month with tethering included

 

[Menno]

Really? What if they offer a 2GB plan for $25 a month, no unlimited teiring and you use 4GB a month using data/streaming music? What that tells me if they did say that is they will offer an unlimited tier still possibly. But it's more than likely not going to be $30 a month. Would be nice if the pricing broke down something like:

500MB - $10
2GB - $20
Unlimited - $30

Would be awesome, so then people who aren't as data heavy could reap the benefits of a cheaper monthly bill, Verizon could reap the benefits of overages, and everyone else can still have unlimited. I can just see that unlimited tier(if they do it like that) being $60 a month with tethering included

They will NOT maintain unlimited pricing for 4g plans. They also will NOT offer an unlimited tethering option at any price for a long time.

I really don't think they'll switch from unlimited or 3g handsets. It doesn't make sense for them to do so. But if you used 4gb a month for streaming pandora 10 hours a day/7 days a week, logic would follow that the upper cap would be 5gb.

This 2gb rubbish is from ATT. Speculating on ANY pricing by verizon is literally a shot in the dark. All we can stat is what we know based on corporate history (no unlimited tethering, unlimited will not exist for 4g, etc)

 

[Qazme]

They will NOT maintain unlimited pricing for 4g plans. They also will NOT offer an unlimited tethering option at any price for a long time.

I really don't think they'll switch from unlimited or 3g handsets. It doesn't make sense for them to do so. But if you used 4gb a month for streaming pandora 10 hours a day/7 days a week, logic would follow that the upper cap would be 5gb.

This 2gb rubbish is from ATT. Speculating on ANY pricing by verizon is literally a shot in the dark. All we can stat is what we know based on corporate history (no unlimited tethering, unlimited will not exist for 4g, etc)

That's what I've been saying?!......I'm just saying based on what he says it would make sense for them to offer an unlimited tier at a much higher pricing killing off most customers from getting it. Not to mention you are kind of contradicting yourself when you say they will NOT going to offer unlimited tiering and then later say, "Speculating on ANY pricing by Verizon is literally a shot in the dark." If speculating pricing is a shot in the dark wouldn't speculating if and what the tiering would be, be doing the same thing?

Personally as an IT guy and dealing with network congestion, speeds, people having issues etc. unlimited data is dumb from a service providers standpoint. The only way to make sure you have a reliable service is to limit the speeds and the amount of data you are allowed to push across a network. Since it used to me the amount of data was the selling point we were given unlimited data transfer. Now it's the speed. With speed comes additional potential traffic quantities which at this time are not cost effective or easy to delivery over a cellular network.

Until wholesale network access gets cheaper, cellular technology is more efficient, cheaper to maintain and implement, and people can recognize the difference between home access and cellular access to data there will always be caps, tiers, and higher prices. (Some home providers limit data transfer per month to because of these same reason getting to a backbone and what they are charged. Mainly in non-US countries but US companies have toyed with the idea on and off for years.)

So to make my stand CLEARER for the people who don't get what point I'm trying to make. Tiered access is coming, it will happen, and on every provider. The cost who know, the amount of data who know, will they offer unlimited who know. What do I WANT......see my previous post.

Bottom line, until the companies set a fiber agenda for the country and actually put into force the money and time needed to roll it out nationwide (along with people's bills going up because after all consumer pay for all of it) and get faster access speeds to everyone at cheaper prices we will either be limited on what we can do with our data and how much we can do or we will pay higher prices. Judging what I have seen and know from Verizon for years I can see them offering, even in a tiered environment, an unlimited plan but it will not be cheap and may not be fast IE 3G only. So we shall see.

 

[PGHammer]

It's How The Data *Leaves* The Phone

So, how do they know if you are tethering or not if all the data is passing through the phone?

How bad the tether folks get whacked has to do with how the data leaves the phone (not the tethering in and of itself).

Typical tethering uses the phone as a modem (that means the data enters VZW's network). It is when the first byte is entering the VZW network (by any means) that starts the counter. Connections via wi-fi (even if the phone is the conduit) don't and can't (and shouldn't) count against either the cap *or* the fees because VZW's network isn't being used at all. However, how many phones support that sort of tethering, Froyo or no Froyo? (Or is the *only* tethering supported that which sends the data over the VZW network, and thus results in those charges?)

Because *historically* phones that support tethering (even if they also support wi-fi) don't support tethering over wi-fi (data over wifi is permitted; tethering over wi-fi is not), it may not be even possible. It's not an Android smartphone limit; none of RIM's Blackberries support that sort of tether (the iPhone doesn't, either). That is precisely why I refuse to tether (instead, I'd much rather two-stage; connect a portable PC to the phone via USB, sending the data to the phone, then send the data via wi-fi). Yes; it adds extra steps. However, it also saves serious money (and can also save time, as wi-fi is typically faster than 3G, or even 4G, even with the extra step or steps added on).

Convenience (which tethering certainly is) is *never* free, or even inexpensive; the end-user pays in some fashion (even when it's not immediately apparent).

If you find yourself with no option *except* tethering, that's not the carrier's fault (it's not the handset maker's fault, either) - that is the handset customer/user's fault due to inadequate planning ahead.

 

[PGHammer]

Tethering Alternatives (and Why I Will NEVER Tether)

That's what I've been saying?!......I'm just saying based on what he says it would make sense for them to offer an unlimited tier at a much higher pricing killing off most customers from getting it. Not to mention you are kind of contradicting yourself when you say they will NOT going to offer unlimited tiering and then later say, "Speculating on ANY pricing by Verizon is literally a shot in the dark." If speculating pricing is a shot in the dark wouldn't speculating if and what the tiering would be, be doing the same thing?

Personally as an IT guy and dealing with network congestion, speeds, people having issues etc. unlimited data is dumb from a service providers standpoint. The only way to make sure you have a reliable service is to limit the speeds and the amount of data you are allowed to push across a network. Since it used to me the amount of data was the selling point we were given unlimited data transfer. Now it's the speed. With speed comes additional potential traffic quantities which at this time are not cost effective or easy to delivery over a cellular network.

Until wholesale network access gets cheaper, cellular technology is more efficient, cheaper to maintain and implement, and people can recognize the difference between home access and cellular access to data there will always be caps, tiers, and higher prices. (Some home providers limit data transfer per month to because of these same reason getting to a backbone and what they are charged. Mainly in non-US countries but US companies have toyed with the idea on and off for years.)

So to make my stand CLEARER for the people who don't get what point I'm trying to make. Tiered access is coming, it will happen, and on every provider. The cost who know, the amount of data who know, will they offer unlimited who know. What do I WANT......see my previous post.

Bottom line, until the companies set a fiber agenda for the country and actually put into force the money and time needed to roll it out nationwide (along with people's bills going up because after all consumer pay for all of it) and get faster access speeds to everyone at cheaper prices we will either be limited on what we can do with our data and how much we can do or we will pay higher prices. Judging what I have seen and know from Verizon for years I can see them offering, even in a tiered environment, an unlimited plan but it will not be cheap and may not be fast IE 3G only. So we shall see.

What a lot of us that tether seem to be forgetting is that all tethering sends the data over the provider's network. Period. Not one smartphone from any manufacturer allows tethering over wifi (even if the handset supports data over wifi, and most Android-based phones do). I have every reason to believe the problem is technical (and practical) in nature; to support tethering over wi-fi, you would need extra radios (especially if you are going to use the phone as an AP/extender) which would make the phone itself much more complicated (and result in a major ionizing-radiation hazard; cell phones are in *enough* hot water as it is). Data over wi-fi is fine (however, in most cases, the phone can't be used for voice calls while sending data); however, you can only tether if you use the provider's network (typical tethering is using the phone as a data modem); and no provider is going to let you use/abuse their network for data with impunity (especially a network that was largely not designed to handle large amounts of data in the first place).

Instead, think about packing a USB wireless adapter if you travel anywhere (and your portable PC does not support wifi-G and/or wifi-N) as most hotels (especially the chains) support at least that (for little cost, or even no cost); wifi-G/N is even becoming standard fare in hospitals (when I had gallbladder surgery in 2005, the only wires used ran to a transmitter at my waist while I was recovering; the wireless receiver was at the nursing station). In short, low-cost (if not no-cost) wireless is becoming the rule (not the exception); take advantage of it (and save yourself some money, not to mention needless aggro).

I love VZW as a provider, because they just plain work when I need it. However, I refuse to let them sock me for more than necessary. For me, that means using as little data as I can get away with, and not tethering at all.

 

[sloan31]

How bad the tether folks get whacked has to do with how the data leaves the phone (not the tethering in and of itself).

Typical tethering uses the phone as a modem (that means the data enters VZW's network). It is when the first byte is entering the VZW network (by any means) that starts the counter. Connections via wi-fi (even if the phone is the conduit) don't and can't (and shouldn't) count against either the cap *or* the fees because VZW's network isn't being used at all. However, how many phones support that sort of tethering, Froyo or no Froyo? (Or is the *only* tethering supported that which sends the data over the VZW network, and thus results in those charges?)

Because *historically* phones that support tethering (even if they also support wi-fi) don't support tethering over wi-fi (data over wifi is permitted; tethering over wi-fi is not), it may not be even possible. It's not an Android smartphone limit; none of RIM's Blackberries support that sort of tether (the iPhone doesn't, either). That is precisely why I refuse to tether (instead, I'd much rather two-stage; connect a portable PC to the phone via USB, sending the data to the phone, then send the data via wi-fi). Yes; it adds extra steps. However, it also saves serious money (and can also save time, as wi-fi is typically faster than 3G, or even 4G, even with the extra step or steps added on).

Convenience (which tethering certainly is) is *never* free, or even inexpensive; the end-user pays in some fashion (even when it's not immediately apparent).

If you find yourself with no option *except* tethering, that's not the carrier's fault (it's not the handset maker's fault, either) - that is the handset customer/user's fault due to inadequate planning ahead.

Appreciate the response however it does not address the question I asked.