In need of a genius to diagnose this problem

[dobe6836]

Hi:

Sorry for the long question but I've been through a lot to try and fix this problem!​

The issue I'm having with my phone/HFL car system seems to be so unusual that no one can diagnose it. I'm hoping someone on this forum knows what's going on. Apparently it will take a genius to figure it out.

I posted this problem in the HTC M8 forum but it may be more of a Kitkat problem.

I have an HTC M8/Verizon and the HFL system in my 2012 Acura.

The phone easily pairs with the HFL system in the car. The Bluetooth audio works perfectly. The problem is the phone continuously connects and disconnects when talking with someone. I don't lose the call. It just continually switches back and forth from the HFL system to the phone. The message on the car screen is:

"No phone is connected. Would you like to add a phone"

Then 5 seconds later the phone reconnects on its own and the person's voice comes back through the car speakers. Then it disconnects again and the same message appears. It then reconnects and the message disappears again. This happens over and over. Sometimes the connection will be solid for up to 45 minutes before starting to connect and disconnect. Other times it starts immediately upon receiving the call. As I said the call is NOT dropped.

1.) After going through every trick in the book (as suggested by Acura and Verizon) -- including factory reset, renaming the phone, removing all other paired devices, etc. -- I still had the same problem.

2.) Acura replaced the car battery because they said it could be causing the issue. It made no difference.

3.) I convinced Verizon it was the phone. They replaced it but I had the same issue.

4.) I then went back to Acura and told them it must be the car. They replaced the entire HFL unit. I still had the exact same problem!

I've looked on many forums and can't find others that are having this issue.

I talked to a technician from Honda America. He said they tested compatibility of the HFL system with the 4.2. He said sometimes when updates are released they can create issues. I've only had the phone since late September.

If KitKat 4.4 is causing this issue wouldn't more people be reporting it -- wouldn't Acura have heard of it, wouldn't Verizon have heard about it, wouldn't this be an issue on Android forums?

A friend also has a 2012 Acura with HFL. He also has a Verizon phone with 4.4. He has no issues.

Has anybody had this problem with KitKat 4.4? Has anybody ever heard of this problem with 4.4? There's millions of cars that have HFL systems and millions of phones with 4.4. Am I the only person experiencing this problem?

The Honda tech said I'd have to wait until Lollipop is released. Do you all agree that the only remaining explanation for the problem is Kitkat 4.4.? What would you guys do? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Hopinator93]

Now, I would like to know if you have any apps running besides your music and phone apps. If you forget to close a game out or have youtube running oh gosh the phone can get confused and malfunction in insane ways.

Also, have you tried leaving your Bluetooth setting on to always on of just when Bluetooth is nearby for both car and phone?

 

[SpookDroid]

It might make sense if it was a general problem, but as you say, it's not. That being said, some phone manufacturers are known to have BT and/or WiFi issues that only get worsened by some Android bugs (like Samsung devices with some WiFi routers). So, what I would try is the following:
1) Does your friend have the same phone as you? Even if you're both on KitKat.
2) Does your phone work in your friend's car?
3) Does his phone work in your car?

It might be that HTC Ones have a BT chip issue, and no matter what replacement unit you get, if this is a hardware or HTC Driver issue, then the problem would be there for any HTC One device.

Like the above poster says, you might want to try your own phone without any 3rd party apps running in the background to rule that out. You can enter your phone in Safe Mode. This disables all 3rd party apps at boot and they can only run if you explicitly have them run. Excellent tool for debugging.
Restart the Device in Safe Mode HTC One | Verizon Wireless

 

[VidJunky]

Well it sounds like you've been pretty thorough in trying to figure this out. Since you said that you deleted other paired devices I have to assume that you've had other devices paired with the car and didn't have this issue with any of them, correct? Or were they just paired because you could and not really used because they belonged to someone else, child, spouse, friend? If it connects to other devices without this issue that narrows it down to the phone. While HTC is known for its strong radio sets even the best radio is subject to interference. Have you noticed a trend such as on this street in this block it happens every time, or always this time of day, or this side of town. In years past alarm systems played havoc with radio systems, we don't see it much these days however there is far more RF out there these days so the potential is there. Of course if it were as wide spread as you describe, you're right more people would be reporting it however you may have something unique that is making you more susceptible. Ideally if you can narrow it down to the phone and driving or not driving that would go a long way with figuring this out.

If you haven't connect another device to your car and drive a path that has caused issues in the past and see if the alternate device has this issue.
New phone same car same path cancels out the phone. Leaving path and car.

In your car connect the phone to a different BlueTooth device, headphones, speaker, etc that you can monitor and drive a known path for having issues.
New device, same phone cancels out car. Leaving phone and path.

At home connect to another BlueTooth device or the car and test without moving.
New device, same phone cancels out car and path. Leaving phone.
Same device, same phone cancels out path. Leaving phone and car.
Same device, new phone cancels out phone. Leaving car.

Last thing I have is disable network.
Same car, same path, same phone. This will cancel out roaming issues, and bandwidth usage. It's a long shot but we're dealing with radios and RF so it may shed light on a work around. It would prevent you from receiving data transmissions while driving, but should allow you to make calls which sounds like your major concern right now.

In car position could also be a factor if we're really going to reach. One would assume that the radio for your hands free is close to the radio itself, and BlueTooth should be able to pick up from several feet away but if there is interference your range could be compromised.

Sorry I can't think of any other way to get these answers...

 

[dobe6836]

Thanks for the suggestions. You guys came up with more ​trouble shooting suggestions than Acura or Verizon! Thanks for your help. Sorry for the long post but this issue has been very time consuming.

Now, I would like to know if you have any apps running besides your music and phone apps. If you forget to close a game out or have YouTube running oh gosh the phone can get confused and malfunction in insane ways.

I started the HTC in Safe Mode -- as suggested by SpookDroid -- but experienced the same problem.

Also, have you tried leaving your Bluetooth setting on to always on of just when Bluetooth is nearby for both car and phone?

I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean I should have the phone Bluetooth off until I get into the car? If so, I've tried that and it makes no difference.

It might make sense if it was a general problem, but as you say, it's not. That being said, some phone manufacturers are known to have BT and/or WiFi issues that only get worsened by some Android bugs (like Samsung devices with some WiFi routers). So, what I would try is the following:

1) Does your friend have the same phone as you? Even if you're both on KitKat.
2) Does your phone work in your friend's car?
3) Does his phone work in your car?

It might be that HTC Ones have a BT chip issue, and no matter what replacement unit you get, if this is a hardware or HTC Driver issue, then the problem would be there for any HTC One device.]

1.) None of my friends have the same phone. They have Motorola Maxx, Samsung, iPhones, etc.

2.) I'll try next. It's a big inconvenience to my friends since the problem may take 40 minutes or so to show up.

3.) Same

Thanks for the Safe Mode suggestion. I didn't know that could be done. As you said, it's a great diagnostic tool but didn't uncovered anything.

If the HTC had a "BT chip issue" won't that issue occur when any HTC phone was connected to an HFL? If so wouldn't this be a large well-known issue with HTC phones? Maybe I should call HTC? I would think Verizon would know since they sell them.

Well it sounds like you've been pretty thorough in trying to figure this out. Since you said that you deleted other paired devices I have to assume that you've had other devices paired with the car and didn't have this issue with any of them, correct?

Yes, I had a Droid Razr connected before I got the HTC. I had no problems. Also, the HTC worked perfectly -- with HFL -- for the first 3 weeks or so.

The HTC connects to Bluetooth headphones with no issues. It also connects to the HFL Bluetooth audio with no issues -- which I guess is a different system than when using the phone?

While HTC is known for its strong radio sets even the best radio is subject to interference. Have you noticed a trend such as on this street in this block it happens every time, or always this time of day, or this side of town. In years past alarm systems played havoc with radio systems, we don't see it much these days however there is far more RF out there these days so the potential is there. Of course if it were as wide spread as you describe, you're right more people would be reporting it however you may have something unique that is making you more susceptible. Ideally if you can narrow it down to the phone and driving or not driving that would go a long way with figuring this out.

It doesn't make any difference if the car is parked or moving. As far as I can tell, it happens during all paths.

In your car connect the phone to a different Bluetooth device, headphones, speaker, etc. that you can monitor and drive a known path for having issues. New device, same phone cancels out car. Leaving phone and path.

It doesn't happen with the phone connected to Bluetooth headphones or with the phone playing music through Bluetooth audio.

Last thing I have is disable network.

I'm not sure what you mean. I turned off "Wi-Fi" and "Mobile data". It made no difference. Is there something else I should disable?

One thing I haven't mentioned, the connecting and disconnecting from HFL does not occur unless I'm talking on the phone. I can leave the phone connected to the HFL and watch the HFL screen while parked or driving. Screen says "connected phone: HTC". It never disconnects until I make or receive a call. Then it usually starts immediately connecting and disconnecting from HFL (the call is never lost) but it may take 40 minutes or so before it starts.

Does this provide an important clue?

Is this as unusual a problem as it seems to be?

Thanks again for all your time.

 

[VidJunky]

Working ok with another device seems to rule the car out. At the same time the phone working with another device whole in the car counts the phone out. I'm more curious now as to wether this is an equipment compatibility issue. Obviously the phone is add up to date as it gets but I wonder if there is a way to update the car? At this point it really looks like compatibility and the only way I see around that is an update to the car system or an app that bridges the gap in communications. GL

Posted via Android Central App

 

[dobe6836]

Happy New Year:

I wanted to post the results of my troubleshooting in case anyone needs help with this strange issue in the future. After a couple of months of dealing with this problem, I figured out what was causing the connect/disconnect issue. This was the most challenging issue I've ever had with electronics.

Verizon, Acura, HFL, Honda Corp. techs couldn't figure it out. You guys were a big help! VidJunky suggested I disable the network to cancel out roaming issues and bandwidth usage. Hopinator93 and SpookDroid suggested it could be apps running in the background. Turning off "Mobile Data" didn't make any difference. Running in Safe Mode didn't make any difference.

However, because of your other suggestions, I wondered about Wi-Fi.

It turns out the problem only occurs when Wi-Fi is enabled and the WiFi is connected! I always have Wi-Fi enabled but the problem apparently only occurs when the Wi-Fi is actually connected. That's why the problem was intermittent. I have a lot of Wi-Fi passwords saved. Xfinity is all around. I think the phone connection between the HTC M8 and HFL is okay until I'm driving around or parked and the HTC tries to connect or connects to a network.

I can't find anyone else who has reported this problem. How could I be the only one? Since the issue started, I've replaced the HTC M8 and HFL unit.

How could Wi-Fi be causing this issue with my phone/HFL -- but no one else's?

If I get yet another (3rd one) HTC from Verizon will the problem stop? I think this must be an HTC issue but why isn't it reported by anyone else? I've gone to many different HTC/android forums and can't find anything on this issue. BTW, you guys by far provided the most help.

Before I figured out it was caused by a Wi-Fi issue SpookDroid said:

It might be that HTC Ones have a BT chip issue, and no matter what replacement unit you get, if this is a hardware or HTC Driver issue, then the problem would be there for any HTC One device.

When I call HTC I want to at least sound like I know what I'm talking about. Do you all think it could be a BT chip issue or a hardware/HTC driver issue?

But if so why is this issue -- seemingly -- not a known problem? This is so frustrating!

What would you do?

Thanks for all your time and help.

 

[dobe6836]

I didn't get any response to my New Year's day post so I thought I would do a short summary.

Has anyone heard of a phone's Wi-Fi causing connection problems between that phone's Bluetooth and a car's Bluetooth systems?

I already got a replacement HTC M8 and HFL unit but have the same problem. What are the chances that getting another HTC M8 would fix this issue?

Can anyone think of why Verizon, HTC and Honda Corp top technicians haven't heard of this issue?

Thanks.

 

[SpookDroid]

Hey there. Sorry for the late response, as many, I was on holiday hehe and this time I went where no Internet coverage has gone before (and it was awesome...for like 5 days haha then I was losing my mind, but I digress).

It DOES seem like the issue is the BT Chip. BUT it still might be software. Here's what has happened to me, but NOT on HTC, on Samsung devices. They have this software called SideSync that is supposed to let you share your screen between devices and input methods with your computer as well. My issue was that if I had both WiFi and Bluetooth enabled, WiFi would drop the speed to a crawl. BT off and it was back to normal. I thought it was the device so I got a different one, even a different model. Same thing happened. Then I killed off SideSync (I'll spare you the details of how I figured it out, but in a nutshell, one day there was a quick pop up saying the app was connecting before the issue happened) and voila! I've never had issues with WiFi and BT again.

Some chips and even older Android version had an issue with WiFi and Bluetooth causing intermittent connection, so I found a couple BT apps in the Play Store that basically keep your BT connection 'alive' all the time and avoid this. You could try that and see if it works (the problem seems to be when BT is in 'stand by', with an active connection but not actively sending/receiving data).

 

[dobe6836]

Welcome back SpookDroid!

Sorry for all the questions. You've been a big help and know what you're talking about! I'm going to call Verizon, HTC or Acura to complain about this problem but I'm not sure who to blame. I'd like to sound like I know what I'm talking about.

1.) So if you're right -- this is an issue with the Bluetooth chip in the phone (HTC) or in the car (HFL) or in both?

2.) If it's a Bluetooth chip is it just a defect in some of the chips or is it a design defect that would affect all chips?

There seem to be very few people experiencing this issue. I was on an Acura forum and found 3 other people that had the same problem.

They have a Samsung Galaxy 4 running Kit Kat 4.4; a Google Nexus 4 running Lollipop with a Canadian carrier; a Note 4 running 4.4 with Verizon. I have an HTC running 4.4 with Verizon. All of us have HFL in an Acura. When the Wi-Fi is disabled the problem stops.

The Honda Corp tech told me it was likely Kit Kat 4.4 since HONDA hadn't tested their HFL unit with that OS. He told me to wait for Lollipop. Since I found someone with the same issue who's running Lollipop his theory may be wrong or maybe he's right but Lollipop didn't fix the issue?

3.) Also, the 3 other people I found have different phones so wouldn't they have different Bluetooth chips than the one in my HTC? All have Honda HFL in common.

4.) There are millions of people who have Honda/Acura HFL units and phones with Bluetooth chips like the one in my phone and 4.4 or higher. It seems like this should be a well known issue. Can you think of something else ... other than the updated OS ... that would explain this being such a rare issue -- but spread across multiple phone manufactures?

Again, sorry for all the questions. Thanks again for all your time. I wouldn't have figured out it was Wi-Fi interference without your input.

 

[SpookDroid]

Hey, glad I can help at all

So here's what I'd try first. Different car system, same conditions. If in another system your issue doesn't show, then it's not (entirely) the phone's chip. If it does happen, then it's the phone.

Now, the following steps get trickier, as all you can do is submit your report to Accura and hope they do something about it. I do remember that Android has had some issues with the BT stack it uses (the basic software to make the protocol work), but AFAIK, it was solved in KitKat. As for BT chips, manufacturers can share suppliers and it also depends on where the unit was assembled, so different brands might have the same radio chip (how many Qualcomm processors are out there? And for storage, only a handful of companies make the chips, Samsung being one of them).