Issues with reviews

dukenilnil

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There is a striking issue with almost every review I've seen for this phone - they are all biased by the price of the phone and the data plan.
The price of the phone is a relevant factor, but most qualify for some sort of discount on top of the $299 price either through Verizon or others, so the $299 MSRP on contract is not an accurate representation of actual price paid for the majority of consumers. For that matter, they might as well use the full retail price of the phone because that is also not a price most pay.

A far bigger issue, though, is that the reviews all seem to assume the purchases is getting one of the new tiered data plans. On those plans, 4g is rarely if ever going to be worth it because you'd burn through the data too quickly if you maximized use on 4g. There are a lot of people, however, who have grandfathered unlimited data. For those people, 4g makes a ton of sense. The reviews really need to address the fragmented purchasing public. It'd also be interesing to see the breakdown of current Verizon customer's with grandfathered plans vs. non-grandfathered plans. There should be 2 reviews, one for the new data customers (i.e. tiered) and one for unlimited.
 

2defmouze

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[ ] striking issue
[ ] big issue
[X] non-issue

The reviews have to assume your talking to a standard new/service switching customer, because thats just a lot easier than adding in a bunch of stuff about upgraders or whatever. They assume a basic level of knowledge in the reader, i.e. that you can figure out on your own if your getting any other discounts and if you're grandfathered into unlimited data. I don't think they should have to spell out every possible scenario.. like do you want every review to research for you if you'll get some kind of corporate discount too?
 

GBH2

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[ ] striking issue
[ ] big issue
[X] non-issue

The reviews have to assume your talking to a standard new/service switching customer, because thats just a lot easier than adding in a bunch of stuff about upgraders or whatever. They assume a basic level of knowledge in the reader, i.e. that you can figure out on your own if your getting any other discounts and if you're grandfathered into unlimited data. I don't think they should have to spell out every possible scenario.. like do you want every review to research for you if you'll get some kind of corporate discount too?

I agree with the OP at least in this point: It is ridiculous and misleading for a reviewer to say "Well. this is by far the best phone on Verizon" (in the middle of some paragraph 2/3rds into the review) and at the top of the review and in the conclusion say "This phone is just too expensive - we give it 3 Stars" When it is new tech and about the same price as the Charge and TBolt when they came out and only about $2 more a month for your 2 year contract.

This is like Car and Driver giving a Yugo 5 stars and a Ferrari 1 star. :p
 

JStrider

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For them to talk about the negatives of the high price and tiered data for new customers is fine, you have to deal with one or both of those to get the phone.

I dont think they should lower the score of the phone significantly because of the pricing and data plans.
 

dukenilnil

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[ ] striking issue
[ ] big issue
[X] non-issue

The reviews have to assume your talking to a standard new/service switching customer, because thats just a lot easier than adding in a bunch of stuff about upgraders or whatever. They assume a basic level of knowledge in the reader, i.e. that you can figure out on your own if your getting any other discounts and if you're grandfathered into unlimited data. I don't think they should have to spell out every possible scenario.. like do you want every review to research for you if you'll get some kind of corporate discount too?

of course not every conceivable possibility needs to be addressed, but when the concern is over data prices, that's an issue with verizon not the bionic and second, there are significant numbers of grandfathered users so they should be addressed. Pretty easy to have a Sunday paragraph that says, great phone if you have an unlimited data plan, but can't recommend for those on tiered data as 4g premium not worth the price with restricted data use.
 

2defmouze

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Pretty easy to have a Sunday paragraph that says, great phone if you have an unlimited data plan, but can't recommend for those on tiered data as 4g premium not worth the price with restricted data use.

I mean, I guess I see what you're saying but it depends so much on how people use their data. There's plenty of articles suggesting ways to monitor or limit your data usage for tiered users that I don't feel they should have to bake it into every phone review. Note also that what you said above differs greatly from your first post:
There should be 2 reviews, one for the new data customers (i.e. tiered) and one for unlimited.
 

Latteart

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The price and plan you get is a HUGE part of the phone. If the 4G is going to limit your phone usage(so you don't go over) I would say that it hinders the phone majorly. I just had to leave Verizon because my smartphone broke, I activated a dumb phone to get through a week and they said "no I couldn't go back to my "grandfathered" plan". It would have cost me according to them well over $100 in data alone just to stay with them and keep my normal usage. I had been with them for 10 years and got that treatment.

You really need to mind your data and the normal customer will have no idea how to even calculate this formula and the sales reps(as we all know) are general under educated or mislead and will pass that on to the customer. You can burn through a ton of data quickly with 4G especially with Netflix playing on a vacation while in your sons/daughters hands.

Customer: Can I watch Netflix anywhere I go?
Rep: Sure can all the movies they have anywhere you go
Customer: Awesome, because I travel all over the USA
Rep: Ok great so you want the phone?
Customer: Ya with 2100 talk min. and unlimited texts and data
Rep: well we have a few data plans and 2gb/30mo is the min.
Cust: Ok great I just want the cheapest plan
Rep: Great lets ring you up I (Should have said something about Netflix usage here but they usually don't so the customer doesn't get what they NEED)

Thats how easy it usually is to get the wrong data plan. I blame Verizon for getting greedy and trying to say that its because of 2% of people that they have to tier their data. BS. They just saw the opportunity when AT&T did it. That's the problem with having only 2 major carriers and 2 semi major ones but thats an argument for a different thread.

Thank someone for Sprint and their dire need for customers.

end rant, proceed with normal posting
 
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oresteez

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You know what, you have me sold on your argument too.
It's really stupid for a review site to base their rating on the price...especially when the price will vary so much based on who you are buying it from...

Not only that, but 6 months from now, the price will change...the hardware specs will not. Focus your review/rating on the items that will not change... (except for software..)
 

zenit#AC

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i think that incorporating price in rating is totally fair. The fact that it usually drops weeks/month after release says that it is just carrier wanting to make $100 bucks. This by itself makes them deserve to lose a few rating points from their flagship phone.

Also initial purchase price is a huge thing for people who are not tech oriented. I have plenty of relatives who's most important factor in buying a new phone is the initial purchase price. This is also why Android got so big - it came out on alot of low cost devices, allowing alot of people to buy them. I know it doesn't make sense, because majority of cost incurred is from paying carrier every month, but initial purchase price is an extremely important thing for people outside this forum (who just go to a verizon store to pick up a new phone without knowing much about them).
 

jimmybigshot

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The price and plan you get is a HUGE part of the phone. If the 4G is going to limit your phone usage(so you don't go over) I would say that it hinders the phone majorly. I just had to leave Verizon because my smartphone broke, I activated a dumb phone to get through a week and they said "no I couldn't go back to my "grandfathered" plan". It would have cost me according to them well over $100 in data alone just to stay with them and keep my normal usage. I had been with them for 10 years and got that treatment.

You really need to mind your data and the normal customer will have no idea how to even calculate this formula and the sales reps(as we all know) are general under educated or mislead and will pass that on to the customer. You can burn through a ton of data quickly with 4G especially with Netflix playing on a vacation while in your sons/daughters hands.

Customer: Can I watch Netflix anywhere I go?
Rep: Sure can all the movies they have anywhere you go
Customer: Awesome, because I travel all over the USA
Rep: Ok great so you want the phone?
Customer: Ya with 2100 talk min. and unlimited texts and data
Rep: well we have a few data plans and 2gb/30mo is the min.
Cust: Ok great I just want the cheapest plan
Rep: Great lets ring you up I (Should have said something about Netflix usage here but they usually don't so the customer doesn't get what they NEED)

Thats how easy it usually is to get the wrong data plan. I blame Verizon for getting greedy and trying to say that its because of 2% of people that they have to tier their data. BS. They just saw the opportunity when AT&T did it. That's the problem with having only 2 major carriers and 2 semi major ones but thats an argument for a different thread.

Thank someone for Sprint and their dire need for customers.

end rant, proceed with normal posting

So you ask if you can use netflix...she says yes.... true.
You ask for the cheapest plan, she gives it to you...
You blame them. I don't understand. Did you make this decision or did Verizon?
 

2defmouze

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Or how about you walk into a Ferrari dealership, ask for the fastest car for the cheapest price, then later be mad about how much gas it burns through.

If people can't be bothered to do some basic research before making a big purchase they deserve whatever they get.
 

oresteez

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Same example goes for all the people who bought Thunderbolts and didn't know what kind of battery life they would be getting... I'm sure the Verizon reps were not going to tell you ............

I did notice that once the Charge came out, I observed a rep trying to push someone towards the Charge by telling them about how bad the Thunderbolt battery was..

As far as price/tiered data being part of a review, if this becomes common, then I guess every 4G phone is going to get a bad review. The prices aren't going to go lower....and tiered data plans for new customers are here to stay.
 

Latteart

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So you ask if you can use netflix...she says yes.... true.
You ask for the cheapest plan, she gives it to you...
You blame them. I don't understand. Did you make this decision or did Verizon?

Thats why you walk into a store in the first place so the salesperson can inform you and help you make the right decision. They know more than most customers walking in the store so it is their JOB to inform the customer. What I was saying is the Verizon sales rep's usually don't do their job to the fullest. If everyone knew everything about what they were buying why even have salespeople? I can check myself out just like at the grocery store.
 

idahoguy

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Same example goes for all the people who bought Thunderbolts and didn't know what kind of battery life they would be getting... I'm sure the Verizon reps were not going to tell you ............

I did notice that once the Charge came out, I observed a rep trying to push someone towards the Charge by telling them about how bad the Thunderbolt battery was..

As far as price/tiered data being part of a review, if this becomes common, then I guess every 4G phone is going to get a bad review. The prices aren't going to go lower....and tiered data plans for new customers are here to stay.

From someone who does home work on a device before buying it, it's hard to have sympathy for people that blindly buy something, then complain about it. I was looking to upgrade my Blackberry Curve and thought about the Thunderbolt, but after reading some reviews and seeing what phones looked to be coming out this fall, I waited for the Bionic. While I wish it had unlimited data, I have a 50 meg download speed at home and rather than watch netflicks on a small screen, I would rather watch it on a big screen TV, or at least my laptop. My usage differs as I normally use the phone between sales calls and revert to laptop in hotel room. Others need it for their primary device. I knew this was going to be a bigger drain on battery than my Curve so planning on it. 4G seems to come with a price, but I want the fast speed and will get backup battery like I did with earlier cell phones. Complaining about price on a new device doesn't make sense. I bought a 46" high end TV 4 years ago and paid more than double what they are selling for today. I could have waited for them to come down, but half the fun is enjoying new technolgy when it comes out. Everyone needs to make their decision based on what's important to them. From what Ive seen of the phone from the little my wife has let me play with it, it will meet my needs, but may not others based on their needs.
 

KillerG

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I also noticed that some places didn't even address the pentile screen. Are people oblivious? I don't care because I think it's fine, but still, Android Central seems to have the only review that makes sense. I still would've given it a 9/10, but Phil didn't seem to think so. In the end, he really didn't like all the hype along with the phone, I think that's what really brought everyone's expectations up for this to be a bug free perfect phone, but in reality no new technology will ever be that way. iPhone is often pretty bug free because it always runs off of very old hardware for the time. As an example, by the time an iPhone 5 comes out with a dual core, we'll see quad cores coming out within a month or so lol. As if you really need that, but hey, new technology is cool right?
 

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