Really? Why all the Sprint/Samsung hate over Froyo?

RitzSlinger

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Ok let me start by saying that I will probably never be one to root my phone. Not that I'm afraid to, but being married with two kids I can't financially take the chance that I screw up my phone and have to replace it.

Now with that being said, I simply do not get the vitriol getting lobbed at Sprint/Samsung over the Froyo fiasco. I understand those of you that want latest and greatest software. I was so looking forward to being able to have flash support! But if I evaluate my stock phone vs the stock Epic that so many of my friends have, I'm so happy I got the Epic. The screen is far better on the Epic, and the stock camera on the Epic blows the Evo out of the water!!

I guess my main idea here is two questions: 1.) For those of you who have no intention of rooting, is the upgrade situation really that big to keep you from ever getting another Samsung phone and overlooking all the good there is about the phone? 2.) For those that do root anyways, in the long run does the update really matter all that much for you?
 

rgentry23

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I agree RitzSlinger. Although I have rooted (currently running TrulyEpic 1.5), I have to say even that I loved my Epic right out of the box. Other than a little tweaking to get the GPS working right, and no flash, my Epic with 2.1 was still a great phone. Even better now with 2.2....hopefully 2.3 soon...
 

LASuxs

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I see why a lot of people are upset, specially the ones who purchased it early on with the promise of the froyo update i think within a month it was. The flash could've easily been the convincing factor for them. And I gotta say sprint/samsung are crap/thieves, i actually Had To switch to an epic because they tried robbing me when the moment got discontinued by giving me a crap intercept as the replacement
 
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silverthornne

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Yes, this is a serious situation because it demonstrates the following:

1. Samsung is unable to provide trustworthy updates to their products. This may not seem like a big deal to some folks, but when updates are fully able to add new features and correct bugs (and the epic has its fair share of them with its default Eclair installation, such as Bluetooth issues), being stuck in an older version because the development teams at the manufacturer are completely unable to provide workable update solutions is a big problem (look at the Windows Phone 7 fiasco as well; guess which manufacturer's phones got hosed? Samsung's) that lowers the usefulness of a device.

2. It also shows that Samsung products are actually worth less than other manufacturer's products because of this stuck without updates situation. If you buy an HTC product and it has bugs or its missing features that could be integrated via software later on, you can rest assured that they will eventually fix and/or add those. Samsung? Every time they try to do so they either just release a new product and forget the people that bought their previous products (which aren't that old really) or simply fail miserably.

3. Consider that you bought your phone on contract. If you hadn't, the price of the device is about $550.00. You can buy a laptop for less than that! How would you feel if you buy a laptop today, need to use some software on it and you're told you can't because the manufacturer hasn't issued an update needed to run the software? That's happening with Samsung smartphones, and it's simply ridiculous.

4. None of this silly issues would exist if the Touchwiz interface were to be abandoned. Unlike some folks I actually have nothing against Touchwiz (and actually prefer its app drawer over the 3D app drawer), but if the darn thing is so problematic then it's really not worth it. It's like those Intel apps they put into laptops to manage wi-fi connections. I hate them, so one of the first things I do on a Laptop with an Intel CPU / chipset combo is get rid of that software. Same deal with Touchwiz.

5. Again, remember the price of the phone. For that amount of money per purchase (and they've sold quite a few), this kind of ineptitude when it comes to ensuring their device remains relevant and useful after the sale is simply embarrassing. I work at a software development company, and I know it's difficult to test all possibilities, but we're talking about a very specific device here! Even if they have lots of Galaxy S variants, there is only one Epic 4G. How come they can't properly test and develop just for that configuration? How much trust can you place in a company like that? Maybe they should just focus on screens and sell those to other companies and get out of the business of selling the whole device.
 

jrz5024

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The problem isn't the lack of Froyo itself - we've had ROMs for that for some time. The problem is why and how we don't have Froyo.

Why don't we have Froyo? Because Samsung has followed the trend of baked-in Android UIs to the extreme, reskinning the OS to an extent not seen this side of HTC's Sense, as Motoblur and LG's skins are largely forgettable. This is fine for HTC, since Sense is actually not terrible looking and kind of helpful at times, whereas Touchwiz is a garish, laggy, resource-hogging pile of amateur crap. It would be slightly less of a pile of crap if the Epic got TW 3.0 like every single other flavor of Galaxy S, but no, we get an even worse version all to ourselves - and don't we all just love having locked in SOFT KEYS for no discernible reason.

So if we concede that the Touchwiz launcher is useless at best, we could conclude that Samsung has simply wasted their time and move on with our business. But they haven't just wasted their time, they also wasted the consumer's time, my time, coding something that I will replace as a first priority. And not only have they wasted my time, they wasted A LOT of it, more time than any other manufacturer out there - it took them 7 months (and counting) to do the job on the Epic that HTC was able to do on the Evo in 3. To add insult to injury, they did so while keeping us completely in the dark with an arrogance not seen this side of Apple, and after all that, the phone is STILL crippled by its shoddy software.

There is NO EXCUSE for a phone which, running stock 7 months after release, has software two versions old (I'm not counting the broken EB13 release), GPS that flat out doesn't work, a battery that can't get 10 hours of use because of the TWS bug, and a PROPRIETARY file system that works far less efficiently than the one it replaced. Yes, I'm aware I can fix all of these things, and I have, but my point is that I shouldn't need to. I remember a time when software and hardware was released completed and ready for prime time. This trend of manufacturers releasing unfinished products with the intention of fixing them post-purchase is wrong and needs to stop.

Sorry, Sammy. Your products are like the prom queen of the hardware world - beautiful to look at and your friends will be jealous that you have her, until she opens her mouth and you realize that she's maybe not all there.
 

dallas90733

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The problem isn't the lack of Froyo itself - we've had ROMs for that for some time. The problem is why and how we don't have Froyo.

Why don't we have Froyo? Because Samsung has followed the trend of baked-in Android UIs to the extreme, reskinning the OS to an extent not seen this side of HTC's Sense, as Motoblur and LG's skins are largely forgettable. This is fine for HTC, since Sense is actually not terrible looking and kind of helpful at times, whereas Touchwiz is a garish, laggy, resource-hogging pile of amateur crap. It would be slightly less of a pile of crap if the Epic got TW 3.0 like every single other flavor of Galaxy S, but no, we get an even worse version all to ourselves - and don't we all just love having locked in SOFT KEYS for no discernible reason.

So if we concede that the Touchwiz launcher is useless at best, we could conclude that Samsung has simply wasted their time and move on with our business. But they haven't just wasted their time, they also wasted the consumer's time, my time, coding something that I will replace as a first priority. And not only have they wasted my time, they wasted A LOT of it, more time than any other manufacturer out there - it took them 7 months (and counting) to do the job on the Epic that HTC was able to do on the Evo in 3. To add insult to injury, they did so while keeping us completely in the dark with an arrogance not seen this side of Apple, and after all that, the phone is STILL crippled by its shoddy software.

There is NO EXCUSE for a phone which, running stock 7 months after release, has software two versions old (I'm not counting the broken EB13 release), GPS that flat out doesn't work, a battery that can't get 10 hours of use because of the TWS bug, and a PROPRIETARY file system that works far less efficiently than the one it replaced. Yes, I'm aware I can fix all of these things, and I have, but my point is that I shouldn't need to. I remember a time when software and hardware was released completed and ready for prime time. This trend of manufacturers releasing unfinished products with the intention of fixing them post-purchase is wrong and needs to stop.

Sorry, Sammy. Your products are like the prom queen of the hardware world - beautiful to look at and your friends will be jealous that you have her, until she opens her mouth and you realize that she's maybe not all there.
Thank you, thank you, thank you!! you and silverthornne have Explain this crystal clear on why we feel this way towards S & S..thank you, thank you thank you!!....at the very least give us 2 version with trashwiz or without trashwiz(pure andriod)
 
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mcp6530

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so are you saying that some or most of the problem with the epic battery life is the touch wiz software? If so, what do you use and can I use that also if I'm not rooted? Do you have to be rooted to use a different software in touch wiz's place? If not, tell me how please. I love my phone and I'm used to touchwiz, but the battery life is a constant killer despite all my tweaking....
thanks!
 

AndroidXTC

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Ok let me start by saying that I will probably never be one to root my phone. Not that I'm afraid to, but being married with two kids I can't financially take the chance that I screw up my phone and have to replace it.

Now with that being said, I simply do not get the vitriol getting lobbed at Sprint/Samsung over the Froyo fiasco. I understand those of you that want latest and greatest software. I was so looking forward to being able to have flash support! But if I evaluate my stock phone vs the stock Epic that so many of my friends have, I'm so happy I got the Epic. The screen is far better on the Epic, and the stock camera on the Epic blows the Evo out of the water!!

I guess my main idea here is two questions: 1.) For those of you who have no intention of rooting, is the upgrade situation really that big to keep you from ever getting another Samsung phone and overlooking all the good there is about the phone? 2.) For those that do root anyways, in the long run does the update really matter all that much for you?

"Sprint/Samsung over the Froyo fiasco" I think you just answered your own question here.
 
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Skunkape60

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Perhaps I don't belong on this forum.... I got my Epic on 9/23/10. I was never promised any updates and at that time didn't realize there was one. My phone did everytimg I was told it would do and did it very reliably. When I bought my phone, I felt it was the nicest phone I've ever seen and even though my phone didn't received the froyo update, I think it still is. I even like my epic with 2.1 eclair better than my friends 2.2 evo.

I may get a lot of hate for what I'm about to say but find all this venom toward sumsung and sprint almost laughable.
 
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dchawk81

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Perhaps I don't belong on this forum.... I got my Epic on 9/23/10. I was never promised any updates and at that time didn't realize there was one. My phone did everytimg I was told it would do and did it very reliably. When I bought my phone, I felt it was the nicest phone I've ever seen and even though my phone didn't received the froyo update, I think it still is. I even like my epic with 2.1 eclair better than my friends 2.2 evo.

I may get a lot of hate for what I'm about to say but find all this venom toward sumsung and sprint almost laughable.
I'm with you. I was always happy with my phone on 2.1 (even GPS was okay).

I got official Froyo before it was yanked though and none of the issues with it affect my usage of the device.

I think a lot of the anger stems from Evo envy, which I never had.
 

Skunkape60

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I'm with you. I was always happy with my phone on 2.1 (even GPS was okay).

I got official Froyo before it was yanked though and none of the issues with it affect my usage of the device.

I think a lot of the anger stems from Evo envy, which I never had.

Evo envy... I don't care who you are, that's funny!

Sent from my Epic using Tapatalk
 

jrz5024

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so are you saying that some or most of the problem with the epic battery life is the touch wiz software? If so, what do you use and can I use that also if I'm not rooted? Do you have to be rooted to use a different software in touch wiz's place? If not, tell me how please. I love my phone and I'm used to touchwiz, but the battery life is a constant killer despite all my tweaking....
thanks!

Yes, rooting and installing custom ROMs can greatly extend battery life over stock. I installed Baked Snack 1.6, an Eclair ROM, and saw my average battery life nearly double, from 8-10 hours on average to 12-24 hours now, depending on use. If it sat in my pocket doing nothing it could easily get over a day.
 

silverthornne

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To the guys that think we have Evo envy or are overreacting, consider this... every day we use smartphones more openly and due to sheer convenience, it's many times just easier to put out a smartphone and perform a task such as doing a quick transfer among bank accounts than using the PC for it.

How long until major vulnerabilities are found that compromise an Android device, allowing hackers to access your banking information because you performed a quick transfer while riding a bus or something? More importantly, noticing Samsung's update track record, when would the update to fix such a vulnerability ever be issued on a Samsung device?

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
 

dchawk81

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I find that Froyo's option to turn off the data while I'm asleep improves battery dramatically. I can still get voice/text in case of an emergency unlike airplane mode.

Some people might say it defeats the purpose of a smartphone...but how many emails can I read and respond to while sleeping? Do I REALLY need facebook to be syncing? Does it matter that my weather widget doesn't get the latest conditions?

I say no. I can let my phone catch up on all that when I'm having coffee in the morning.
 

dchawk81

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To the guys that think we have Evo envy or are overreacting, consider this... every day we use smartphones more openly and due to sheer convenience, it's many times just easier to put out a smartphone and perform a task such as doing a quick transfer among bank accounts than using the PC for it.

How long until major vulnerabilities are found that compromise an Android device, allowing hackers to access your banking information because you performed a quick transfer while riding a bus or something? More importantly, noticing Samsung's update track record, when would the update to fix such a vulnerability ever be issued on a Samsung device?

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
That's your reason for spewing hatred at Samsung and/or Sprint? Some non-existent or as yet undiscovered security vulnerability? Really?
 

gondo

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I think this thread points out, in a nutshell, why many of us buy an Android phone.

Android phone is the anti-iPhone. It's the open-source advanced customization - the ability to change the phone to fit the individual - vs. the locked-down, one-size-fits-all approach of Apple, that is so appealing. I'm not knocking the iPhone, I think it's terrific - you can't argue with success. Give Apple credit for making a phone that does so many things so well. That is reflected in the sales numbers. But unless you're an extreme hacker, you have to do things Apple's way.

Now, to many Android buyers, this doesn't make a hoot of difference. They just want a phone that does the things they need with minimal fuss. Eclair, Froyo, Gingerbread, root, ROMs, etc. Say whaat?

But for the rest of us who like to get under the hood and see what these babies can do, either a little or to the extreme, THIS is why we buy an Android phone.

And for us, the manufacturer's level of software support plays a key part in keeping our phone viable, current and USEFUL.

So when Samsung finally rolls out the first major update for the Epic (Froyo 2.2) terribly late (comparatively speaking) and then pulls it within a matter of days due to major bugs, what does that tell me as the phone owner? It tells me that Samsung is not serious about software support for this phone, or perhaps any of its phones, and that I, the customer, am not a priority to them once I have bought the phone.

Meanwhile, we see the Evo 4G enjoying the benefits of Froyo since last August and a slew of new smartphones, many by Samsung, with Froyo preinstalled.

And the poor Epic owners who care about these things, suffer through almost 7 months of rumor and missed Froyo release dates, only to suffer an even worse agony - a Froyo update that is not ready for prime time.

This is partly why it IS a BIG deal to many of us, and why many of us are quite upset. Froyo holds the promise of making our excellent Epic phone even better and more USEFUL. Why are we forced to wait for these improvements while others have been enjoying them for many months or right out of the box? And for them, it just...works! Evo envy? You damn right!

Needless to say, it's a huge understatement that Samsung's dropped the ball here. I would venture to say most of us like, and even love, our Epic phone. But failed customer support weighs heavily on a consumer's/user's mind, and when the shiny, new dual core smartphones start appearing later this year, with no doubt offerings by Samsung, you can be sure many of us will look to their competitors for the answer to our phone needs.
 

Skunkape60

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I find that Froyo's option to turn off the data while I'm asleep improves battery dramatically. I can still get voice/text in case of an emergency unlike airplane mode.

Some people might say it defeats the purpose of a smartphone...but how many emails can I read and respond to while sleeping? Do I REALLY need facebook to be syncing? Does it matter that my weather widget doesn't get the latest conditions?

I say no. I can let my phone catch up on all that when I'm having coffee in the morning.

I can turn off data and still get phone calls without froyo. Its very easy with the "quick settings" app.

Sent from my Epic using Tapatalk
 

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