Request for TB Users

[DaRkL3AD3R]

Greetings fellow Thunderbolt users,

I'm a new owner of this awesome device, and came from a day one Droid X. Obviously as we all know, the TBolt is not so battery friendly. In fact I can practically watch my battery drop 1% per 10-20 seconds while making a phone call (sad :/) so charging is a big part of owning this phone. Well here's my dilemma, and I'll get to how you can help in a minute.

Basically my Droid X came with a whimpy 3 foot long cable, which I only used for my PC connection and I bought a 15' micro USB cable online which works wonders in the wall charger. So I got my Thunderbolt and decided, I'd try to use the same cable and wall charger. Well, charging wasn't going so good. It was taking quite awhile considering the bolt only has a 1400mah battery, vs my Droid X's extended 1900mah. I wondered why it was taking so long to charge such a signficantly smaller battery given the same charging equipment. Then I looked at the actual wall charger itself and noticed the Motorola one outputs 5.1v @ .850 A vs the HTC's 5.0v @ 1.0A so I figured the higher current would help. It did, but I am still using the same cable and am wondering if its holding my charging endeavors back.

So this is where you folks come in. With the help of this app: https://market.android.com/details?id=ccc71.bmw&hl=en you can monitor exactly how much current you are taking in while charging your phone (or how much current you are losing from your battery while off the charger) and thus determine any significant differences in cable/wall chargers.

Here's my findings that I'd like to compare to yours.

- Motorola wall charger + 15' aftermarket cable:
+ 122ma while phone is idle
- 2ma while using the phone (was actually DISCHARGING while being plugged in)

- HTC wall charger + 15' aftermarket cable:
+ 250-300ma while phone is idle
+ 50-100ma while using the phone (barely charging)

Now I ask that anyone willing to help please download this app and when they next need to charge their phone, use their stock cable + stock wall charger to see what they get. If you use aftermarket wall chargers and cables that information is welcome too. I want to gather as much info as possible.

Thanks for reading this and thank you in advance if you decide to help out!

 

[dequardo#AC]

Don't think you need all the data. Are you not charging as 'USB' when using the X's charger on the Bolt?

 

[paintdrinkingpete]

Have you tried yet using the cable that came with your TB?

Seems presumptuous to asks others to do work for you when you yourself have not yet really ruled out your own variables?

FWIW, I just checked here at work where I still use my old BlackBerry Charger (.850A), and I'm getting +428mA while the phone is in use.

 

[paintdrinkingpete]

Don't think you need all the data. Are you not charging as 'USB' when using the X's charger on the Bolt?

He claims he is using the wall charger, and not a computer USB connection.

 

[dequardo#AC]

He claims he is using the wall charger, and not a computer USB connection.

I know. My point is that using an X's AC charger on Bolt makes the Bolt recognize it as USB. No?

 

[paintdrinkingpete]

I know. My point is that using an X's AC charger on Bolt makes the Bolt recognize it as USB. No?

Not necessarily. My Bolt charges fine using my old Blackberry changer. It's a little slower because it's less amps, but it's definitely better than "USB", which is only .5A max

Either way, the only way the OP can truly find the point of failure is to test the HTC wall charger with the standard (4ft) USB cable that comes with the TBolt, and compare THAT result to the others.

 

[DaRkL3AD3R]

Basically yes I should really compare it to the stock cable (I'm already using the stock HTC wall charger that came with the phone, as its performing better than the Motorola stock charger) and yes it is coming up as AC on the phone, not USB.

The reason I haven't done it with my stock cable as of yet is two fold: 1) I need the 15' cable because 3 or 4' simply isn't enough for where I can plug in my wall charger. 2) I plan on selling this phone on Ebay/Craigslist and want to keep the packaging in as close to like-new as possible for when I sell it. Is it too much to ask that the packaging be opened and used? Of course not. But I'm extremely anal about packaging

I guess I will just let it rip and try it out for myself, then post that data back here on the forums. But for the record, I'm not asking anyone to do any real work. Installing an app just before you plug in your phone and checking 2 numbers to post back is not a whole lot more than you'd be doing normally yourself daily. If it's too much to ask and you're unwilling to get the data out there, simply not posting would have sufficed.

 

[EricWiz]

I use my OG Droid charger at work, plugged into the wall. With that I get 240mA and listed as AC plugged.

 

[paintdrinkingpete]

I guess I will just let it rip and try it out for myself, then post that data back here on the forums. But for the record, I'm not asking anyone to do any real work. Installing an app just before you plug in your phone and checking 2 numbers to post back is not a whole lot more than you'd be doing normally yourself daily. If it's too much to ask and you're unwilling to get the data out there, simply not posting would have sufficed.

I did post my numbers:

FWIW, I just checked here at work where I still use my old BlackBerry Charger (.850A), and I'm getting +428mA while the phone is in use.

Sorry, didn't mean to sound rude, but it did seems strange that you hadn't actually checked the results using the supplied cable, although your explanation does make sense.

 

[DaRkL3AD3R]

Yes I saw that you did post some numbers and appreciate that. I just felt like it was a rude thing to say, even though I should have mentioned in my original post my reasons for having not tested the stock cable yet myself. I just felt that if you wanted to help the community you just would post without the little complaint. That said, I am draining my battery as we speak (not hard to do) and when it gets a bit lower say around 40-50% I will break out the stock cable and test it out myself. I'm seeing some frightening numbers myself while discharging. Like:

Just downloaded an app, checked the current and I was at -618mA :/ thats quite a lot of power usage just from downloading a simple app on the market. I can't believe how much juice this thing chugs.

Also thank you Eric for the info.

 

[Forgetful]

I pull 750 to 800ish when using the stock AC charger on idle. When the screen is on it's 650 to 300 depending on what I'm doing. I am running a custom kernel though.

I've been a hardcore current monitor since my first android. Its really the only true way to monitor battery issues. I also get super good (IMO) battery life.

 

[DaRkL3AD3R]

I agree completely. Those numbers for charging are great, and lead me to believe I was right in feeling that charging was a bit slow. Guess I'll definitely break out that cable and figure out a new setup :/

By the way Forgetful, you mind telling me how much current you draw from the battery while unplugged and just using your phone? IE - browsing the web, downloading apps, changing settings and texting. Also what is your brightness set to? Thanks for the detailed post btw. Great to find someone else who understands and appreciates the importance of current on battery life/health

 

[Forgetful]

I agree completely. Those numbers for charging are great, and lead me to believe I was right in feeling that charging was a bit slow. Guess I'll definitely break out that cable and figure out a new setup :/

By the way Forgetful, you mind telling me how much current you draw from the battery while unplugged and just using your phone? IE - browsing the web, downloading apps, changing settings and texting. Also what is your brightness set to? Thanks for the detailed post btw. Great to find someone else who understands and appreciates the importance of current on battery life/health

*This is all at 25% brightness.* Each aditional 25% will add 30-40mA for me.

When it's just sitting there with with data off or only 3G on it idles at 34/36mA. With wifi that number goes to 36mA-90mA with an average of probably 45mA.

Screen on and I'm not doing anything will pull 105-120mA.

If I'm surfing the web on wifi it's between 220 and 370 durring the times it actually is transmitting data (ie: opening a link, loading pics, etc...)

If I'm surfing on 3G it'll be ~75mA higher depending.
If I'm on 4G it'll be between 300 and 700mA and I've seen higher.

Just playing with settings and navagating the phone pulls 115-200ish.


I get between 4 to 5.3 hours of display on time with the vast majority being internet surfing, wifi mostly and 3G when I leave the house. I turn all data off when I sleep normally. My battery last 24-40 hours depending on if it was a 4 or 5.5 hour display day. My battery does seem to drain faster once I get to 20% though.

I've given up on using 4G day to day becasue it idles screen off at 100-180mA and sucks power when actually using data. 3G is plenty fast for me and I'm hoping a new radio will fix the 4G current draw. I used to idle 4G much lower but either the radio I installed broke that or vzw did something with their towers.


For example; looking at battery usage currently-

Battery is at 50%
Time since last unplugged = 25 hours, 27 minutes
Display on time = 2 hours 15 minutes
Phone call time = 9 minutes

 

[Mortiel]

Greetings fellow Thunderbolt users,

I'm a new owner of this awesome device, and came from a day one Droid X. Obviously as we all know, the TBolt is not so battery friendly. In fact I can practically watch my battery drop 1% per 10-20 seconds while making a phone call (sad :/) so charging is a big part of owning this phone. Well here's my dilemma, and I'll get to how you can help in a minute.

Basically my Droid X came with a whimpy 3 foot long cable, which I only used for my PC connection and I bought a 15' micro USB cable online which works wonders in the wall charger. So I got my Thunderbolt and decided, I'd try to use the same cable and wall charger. Well, charging wasn't going so good. It was taking quite awhile considering the bolt only has a 1400mah battery, vs my Droid X's extended 1900mah. I wondered why it was taking so long to charge such a signficantly smaller battery given the same charging equipment. Then I looked at the actual wall charger itself and noticed the Motorola one outputs 5.1v @ .850 A vs the HTC's 5.0v @ 1.0A so I figured the higher current would help. It did, but I am still using the same cable and am wondering if its holding my charging endeavors back.

So this is where you folks come in. With the help of this app: https://market.android.com/details?id=ccc71.bmw&hl=en you can monitor exactly how much current you are taking in while charging your phone (or how much current you are losing from your battery while off the charger) and thus determine any significant differences in cable/wall chargers.

Here's my findings that I'd like to compare to yours.

- Motorola wall charger + 15' aftermarket cable:
+ 122ma while phone is idle
- 2ma while using the phone (was actually DISCHARGING while being plugged in)

- HTC wall charger + 15' aftermarket cable:
+ 250-300ma while phone is idle
+ 50-100ma while using the phone (barely charging)

Now I ask that anyone willing to help please download this app and when they next need to charge their phone, use their stock cable + stock wall charger to see what they get. If you use aftermarket wall chargers and cables that information is welcome too. I want to gather as much info as possible.

Thanks for reading this and thank you in advance if you decide to help out!

Just out of curiosity, are you aware of how electric current travels? Although modern power cables are efficient and well insulated, it is absolutely impossible to stem 100% of electrical diffusion. The longer the current has to travel, the more energy is lost into the ether. You are saying that an aftermarket Droid X charger that transmits lower amperage over three times the distance is less effective? Of course it is!

This also can greatly depend on materials used in the charger and cord itself. Different companies use slightly varying materials that allow for higher voltage, amperage, or overall wattage. This also is dependent on the application of the cord. Speaker cable has a high throughput of overall wattage to allow for the best audio-electrical signal, for example.

And that's my elementary level electronics lesson for the day.

Disclaimer: I am no electrical engineer or even close.

 

[thozgyz]

Im tired just from reading all that.

 

[Forgetful]

"

Disclaimer: I am no electrical engineer or even close.

That makes one of us. The extra 10 feet should make no noticeable difference in output current assuming the cord is getting fed the correct current from the transformer.

 

[Mortiel]

"

That makes one of us. The extra 10 feet should make no noticeable difference in output current assuming the cord is getting fed the correct current from the transformer.

The converter system in the adapter for the HTC charger converts the DC 120V current into an AC 100-240V current, so it already has a significant deviation from what the transformer puts out.

And as far as it was explained to me by a close friend of mine whom IS an electrical engineer, standard charging cords loses about 1% per meter traveled. A 1% loss versus a 3% loss is negligible, but mix that with the aftermarket charger also inhibiting the amperage and it can be a noticeable difference.

Just because I am not an electrical engineer does not mean I do not have some basic knowledge of electricity.

 

[DaRkL3AD3R]

Excellent write up Forgetful! Thanks for the info!

Mortiel thanks for the lessen I pretty much agree with what you said because its physics, no arguing that. But if I may, why then does the Droid X take a much higher current even with the HTC charger in conjunction with the 15' aftermarket cable than the Thunderbolt does? I still feel theres something in the software holding the phone back from charging properly on the aftermarket parts.

Oh and I did do my tests with the stock HTC cable. 882mA from 9% up to about 70%, after that it slowly degraded till 100% due to trickle charging.


Edit: actually Forgetful since you brought it up, my old man's an electrician he's been in the business for almost 30 years. Gonna give him a ring tomorrow and find out what the word is on how much resistance there really is to stop the flow on a 15' wire. We'll know for sure if literally a 60% loss in current is physically possible due to sheer distance over a copper wire.

 

[Mortiel]

Excellent write up Forgetful! Thanks for the info!

Mortiel thanks for the lessen I pretty much agree with what you said because its physics, no arguing that. But if I may, why then does the Droid X take a much higher current even with the HTC charger in conjunction with the 15' aftermarket cable than the Thunderbolt does? I still feel theres something in the software holding the phone back from charging properly on the aftermarket parts.

Oh and I did do my tests with the stock HTC cable. 882mA from 9% up to about 70%, after that it slowly degraded till 100% due to trickle charging.

The last part is pretty standard. Fast charging until about 70-80% then trickle charging the last 20-30%.

It is entirely possible that the charging port itself has something going on, but the only way to effective test that would be to compare multiple lengths of cord (3' as control, 5', 10', and 15' as variables), then testing inductive charging. If the charging degrades over length of cord, then its likely not the phone. If the length shows no difference, but the inductive charging shows an improvement, then it may be the USB charging port on the phone itself.

 

[Forgetful]

The converter system in the adapter for the HTC charger converts the DC 120V current into an AC 100-240V current, so it already has a significant deviation from what the transformer puts out.

And as far as it was explained to me by a close friend of mine whom IS an electrical engineer, standard charging cords loses about 1% per meter traveled. A 1% loss versus a 3% loss is negligible, but mix that with the aftermarket charger also inhibiting the amperage and it can be a noticeable difference.

Just because I am not an electrical engineer does not mean I do not have some basic knowledge of electricity.

When I say " that makes ones of us" I'm saying I am an EE. Electric Power and Energy Systems.

Your basic knowlege is flawed I guess, the bolded section is complete nonsense. I'm not intentionally meaning to flame.
Yes he will lose current delivered to the phone due to extra resistance in the line but not the ammount he's losing. There's something else at work.