Sprint upgrade to Android 2.0

Jerry Hildenbrand

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I'll just paste my reply from the front page.

To hell with Sprint. I did not buy a Hero to wait on their idiotic tech team to release software. By law they (Sprint/HTC) must release the CDMA Hero kernel and module source upon demand. They refuse, stringing everyone along with promises of bull**** 6 months from now. Want 2.1 on your Hero? Raise some hell, email them daily, tweet them, etc. etc. Next step is legal. Imagine every CDMA Hero on the shelves and not being able to sell them. More info here GPL Violations homepage - The gpl-violations.org project

I have already informed Sprint that I will NOT be paying the portion of my bill for phones that do not have the required software code released, and happily informed them of my lawyers contact info if they wish to challenge this. I certainly hope they try to cut my service :)
 

702DROID

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Are really willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to argue over an OS update? Seriously get over it. It's a freaking phone for crying out loud.

lawyers love working pro-bono when it involves class action law suit against a big name company that way they get paid and consumers get what was promised
 

kennyidaho

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Are really willing to spend tens of thousands of dollars to argue over an OS update? Seriously get over it. It's a freaking phone for crying out loud.

doh you don't even know what half his post was about do you......

They have released the source for the GSM kernel, don't know what the hold up is with CDMA. I imagine that has something to do with Sprints included crapware....but then I guess that probably wouldn't be in the kernel.
 
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boomhower1820

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doh you don't even know what half his post was about do you......

They have released the source for the GSM kernel, don't know what the hold up is with CDMA. I imagine that has something to do with Sprints included crapware....but then I guess that probably wouldn't be in the kernel.

No I didn't spend a ton of time researching it as it isn't worth it. I am guessing its something along the lines of it's an open source OS with an update available and according to something in the open source license it has to be released to users when it's available.
 

Jerry Hildenbrand

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No need to be hostile boomhower :)

If I can get Sprint to disco me and my reason for not paying was because they have not fulfilled their end of the GPL, then I can file a GPL violation. Until I suffer any personal damages, I must depend on someone else to file the violation. Tom-Tom tried this same trick last year, it took about 3 days to get a cease and desist letter issued...which was soon followed by the Tom-Tom kernel source. :)

Of course I'm prepared to pay my bill, termination and reconnect fees. Sprint will shut me off if I don't pay, even my attorney (who can't fathom why I feel so strongly about this either :) ) says i have no chance in hell of winning a lawsuit against Sprint. I don't want one...all I need is to be able to submit a cease and desist order for violating the GPL. Think of it as a personal victory if nothing else.

I very strongly believe in the Open Source philosophy, and have been actively contributing to OS development for over 15 years. Heck, a few snippets of my code has made it's way into quite a few "official" systems that use the ext3 file system. I just can't sit back and watch corporations abuse the system to try and make a buck.
 

boomhower1820

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No need to be hostile boomhower :)

If I can get Sprint to disco me and my reason for not paying was because they have not fulfilled their end of the GPL, then I can file a GPL violation. Until I suffer any personal damages, I must depend on someone else to file the violation. Tom-Tom tried this same trick last year, it took about 3 days to get a cease and desist letter issued...which was soon followed by the Tom-Tom kernel source. :)

Of course I'm prepared to pay my bill, termination and reconnect fees. Sprint will shut me off if I don't pay, even my attorney (who can't fathom why I feel so strongly about this either :) ) says i have no chance in hell of winning a lawsuit against Sprint. I don't want one...all I need is to be able to submit a cease and desist order for violating the GPL. Think of it as a personal victory if nothing else.

I very strongly believe in the Open Source philosophy, and have been actively contributing to OS development for over 15 years. Heck, a few snippets of my code has made it's way into quite a few "official" systems that use the ext3 file system. I just can't sit back and watch corporations abuse the system to try and make a buck.

I'm not trying to be hostile, didn't mean to come across that way. It just seems to be a lot of trouble for an OS update. Just curious, how is Sprint profiting from delaying the update? If anything I would think it would cost them money from users not wanting to buy an outdated OS when they could go to VZW and get the droid that is up to date.

Back to the technical side for a sec, who exactly would be at fault, Sprint or the manufactures?
 

Jerry Hildenbrand

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I'll start with the technical bit first, because it will make the other questions a bit easier to answer.

Android is an 'application handler and manager' (for lack of a better term) that communicates between applications and the Linux kernel. The Linux kernel communicates between Android and the actual hardware of the phone. In our case HTC Sense is a separate layer that runs on top of Android to link the user to the OS.

HTC 'owns' Sense. They wrote it, and have protected it under software license. They are not required to share the code, and don't. That is completely fine, and I don't begrudge them one bit for it.

Google 'owns' Android. They wrote it, and have protected it under software license as well. They are not required to share the code, but they do. Google's business model makes that easy - give away the applications, and get ad revenue with it. Works well for them, and they let the user base help improve the software by sharing the code.

You and I 'own' Linux. Thousands of people have written the code, and the software license allows anyone to use all of it. The one condition is that if you use it, any changes or tweaks you have made need to be shared when you release the software you built from the free code. HTC used what other people worked to design, and only added a very small number of tweaks to make it work for their particular hardware in the Hero. They have written less than 1% of the code to make it work on the Hero, yet refuse to share that 1%. This is a clear violation of the software license they agreed to when they decided to build and sell Android powered devices. Plain and simple, if they don't share their 1%, they aren't allowed to use 'our' 99%.

I don't care when HTC sends out an update for Sense, they don't even have to do it. That's theirs to do what they like with. I want the code changes to 'my' code they made in the Linux kernel. They are holding back enough so that it's difficult to make Linux+Android+HTC Sense work well on the Hero without using their built program.

Sprint (as usual) is just the stupid partner in this deal. They have done nothing, except promise me (and you) a phone that runs certain software. Part of that software requires they make the code available for anyone that asks. If I had bought my phones direct from HTC, Sprint wouldn't even be involved. But I didn't. Sprint took my money, now they need to hold up their end. HTC won't listen to you or I when we demand the code. Sprint will listen when they are told they can not sell the HTC Hero without the source code, and can push HTC to deliver it. HTC will listen to Sprint.

In a nutshell, I'm forced to be at odds with the innocent party (Sprint) to try and get them to sway the guilty party (HTC) into giving me what I paid for. It's a cat and mouse game that many for profit companies do when they use open source software. They hold on to the code as long as they can, so competition can't see it.

I simply do not have to wait (and do not want to) for HTC to fix issues or improve performance on the Hero. If they give that small bit of changes they have made, I don't have to. Granted, I would lose the SenseUI, but I could have my Hero running Android 2.1 in several hours with everything working, and some glaring bugs would be fixed. As it stands now, I have 2.1 working minus the accelerometer and wifi radio, and for me that's not usable.

Whew what a long ass post.:)
 

ItsMe

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I was excited that I kept seeing the HTC hero was going to get 2.1 by end of year?
I didn't realize Sprints HTC hero was not!
 

Noj

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As it stands now, I have 2.1 working minus the accelerometer and wifi radio, and for me that's not usable.

Whew what a long ass post.:)

lol, yeah it was. Good read and well said...
I'm tempted to go ahead and load it, but then again I agree completly with you. Plus, I want multi-touch to work.
 

moquette

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Damn good read! Count me in, I'm not a developer just a very upset user right now! How can I help?!

I'll start with the technical bit first, because it will make the other questions a bit easier to answer.

Android is an 'application handler and manager' (for lack of a better term) that communicates between applications and the Linux kernel. The Linux kernel communicates between Android and the actual hardware of the phone. In our case HTC Sense is a separate layer that runs on top of Android to link the user to the OS.

HTC 'owns' Sense. They wrote it, and have protected it under software license. They are not required to share the code, and don't. That is completely fine, and I don't begrudge them one bit for it.

Google 'owns' Android. They wrote it, and have protected it under software license as well. They are not required to share the code, but they do. Google's business model makes that easy - give away the applications, and get ad revenue with it. Works well for them, and they let the user base help improve the software by sharing the code.

You and I 'own' Linux. Thousands of people have written the code, and the software license allows anyone to use all of it. The one condition is that if you use it, any changes or tweaks you have made need to be shared when you release the software you built from the free code. HTC used what other people worked to design, and only added a very small number of tweaks to make it work for their particular hardware in the Hero. They have written less than 1% of the code to make it work on the Hero, yet refuse to share that 1%. This is a clear violation of the software license they agreed to when they decided to build and sell Android powered devices. Plain and simple, if they don't share their 1%, they aren't allowed to use 'our' 99%.

I don't care when HTC sends out an update for Sense, they don't even have to do it. That's theirs to do what they like with. I want the code changes to 'my' code they made in the Linux kernel. They are holding back enough so that it's difficult to make Linux+Android+HTC Sense work well on the Hero without using their built program.

Sprint (as usual) is just the stupid partner in this deal. They have done nothing, except promise me (and you) a phone that runs certain software. Part of that software requires they make the code available for anyone that asks. If I had bought my phones direct from HTC, Sprint wouldn't even be involved. But I didn't. Sprint took my money, now they need to hold up their end. HTC won't listen to you or I when we demand the code. Sprint will listen when they are told they can not sell the HTC Hero without the source code, and can push HTC to deliver it. HTC will listen to Sprint.

In a nutshell, I'm forced to be at odds with the innocent party (Sprint) to try and get them to sway the guilty party (HTC) into giving me what I paid for. It's a cat and mouse game that many for profit companies do when they use open source software. They hold on to the code as long as they can, so competition can't see it.

I simply do not have to wait (and do not want to) for HTC to fix issues or improve performance on the Hero. If they give that small bit of changes they have made, I don't have to. Granted, I would lose the SenseUI, but I could have my Hero running Android 2.1 in several hours with everything working, and some glaring bugs would be fixed. As it stands now, I have 2.1 working minus the accelerometer and wifi radio, and for me that's not usable.

Whew what a long ass post.:)
 

Jerry Hildenbrand

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what other carrier has the hero??
There's a GSM Hero
For CDMA there's Sprint and Cell South
Verizon's Eris has a different form factor, a different battery, a hardware proximity sensor and a different LCD. It's Verizon's name for the HTC Desire.

lol, yeah it was. Good read and well said...
I'm tempted to go ahead and load it, but then again I agree completly with you. Plus, I want multi-touch to work.
I can live without the multitouch, but landscape keyboard is a must have for me. And it's not going to happen until we get either the module or the source for the accelerometer. Different hardware in CDMA apparently :(

Damn good read! Count me in, I'm not a developer just a very upset user right now! How can I help?!
The best thing you could do would be to politely ask Sprint and HTC for the CDMA hero source code. I do that every day ;) . Also contact GPL Violations homepage - The gpl-violations.org project and offer any assistance they might need. Other than that, it's a waiting game.