This Kind of Makes Sense: A Case FOR Task Killing

[akarol]

So I found this post in the AF forums and this could technically make sense. It also seems to support some of the improved battery life that people have been reporting with ATK:

-----------------------------------

Right, so here it goes...

ATK is a complete waste of time on any Android device that has less than 800MHz of CPU power. The Android OS automatically handles the applications you start and determines what can continue to run and what needs to be shut down, both to increase battery life and performance.

Now, having said that, if you are a Min/Maxer (if you have to ask, then you are not) you might see a small benefit to using ATK on these devices.

Moving on...

On newer phones running at 800MHz and above, with expanded system memory, the Android OS sees all this extra play room and allows more programs and services to run in the background constantly, this has a massive affect on the battery, because the battery is not that much bigger than they are on the slower Android devices, plus the CPU uses more power too. The Android OS does not see this as an issue, because it does not monitor the battery, it only waits for the "low" "critical" and "dead" thresholds to be met (default is 15%, 5%, and 1% I believe, not sure on those because I change mine) and then reacts to those thresholds with "alerts" or by shutting down the system. It does not know the difference between !00% on a 1250mAh battery and 100% on a 1500mAh battery, or even the god of all batteries... the 3500mAh Evo battery ( Seidio - Your Single Source for Premium Smartphone Accessories ) <-- a definite if you are going to use 4G.

To sum this up, if you have a newer/faster phone you will want to use ATK (or an alternative, but I also prefer ATK having used 4 others for 3 weeks each before deciding) to keep the useless junk from running on your phone. I have no idea why Sprint TV or NFL TV or NASCAR TV (if you still have it) like to load themselves up periodically during the day (before using the auto-kill rules I found they would spontaneously load themselves throughout the day on my wife's moment, I never found out why, nor an exact pattern to the timing. It was just that sometimes when I checked one or more of those particular apps would be running AND I NEVER ONCE LOADED THEM MANUALLY, I can say I have never started any of those apps, but they constantly load themselves under Android 1.6.

have fun with your Evo's and everyone getting theirs on Friday, remember to KILL YOUR BATTERY before charging at least 2 or 3 times... ****Update on this**** infamousjax has stated that the Li-ion battery that ships with the Evo does not require you to kill your battery to get the best performance out of it, see post below.

-----------------------------------

What do you guys think? Anyone actually try ATK and liked/disliked the results?

-Alex

 

[Caitlyn McKenzie]

Actually, that shows a lack of understanding about how Android works. It doesn't matter how much RAM there is, Android always tries to keep active services going if it can. Services are the LAST THING ever killed (and almost never are, even on devices with limited RAM). That's the whole point behind services. They wouldn't be useful if they were killed.

Also, just because a process exists on the phone, does not mean that app is doing ANYTHING. If you have the browser in the background, it is not using ANY battery life at all. Android has suspended it. It is simply holding it there for you in RAM in case it is needed. This does not use any battery life (RAM is powered regardless of whether there's something in it or not).

 

[EVO1Android]

I used the EVO with and without ATK. I have determined that using ATK significantly increases my battery life. Without ATK I was getting around 4 hours. With ATK I am getting 10-15.

 

[88 FLUX]

I 100% disagree. Through testing, ATK has dramatically increased my battery life and with only killing off tasks such as camera, games, gallery, and other miscellaneous apps that don't auto update.

P.S., for me, this is on a Nexus One. Not an EVO. But this is a topic that goes beyond the EVO.

 

[chrisho]

makes sense to me! ive been using but i don't know what a drastically difference it makes. if you check your phone every few mins and hard on the applications of course it will drain on any phone. but from what it looks like it keeps the unnecessary apps from keep on running. i set it automatically every hr in safe auto kill level.

 

[akarol]

Hmmm... I guess I'll have to give this another try. You guys just have it auto-kill desired apps when screen goes off?

 

[Caitlyn McKenzie]

Don't give it a try, the above posters do not understand how android works. Its always better to find the apps responsible.

 

[88 FLUX]

Don't give it a try, the above posters do not understand how android works. Its always better to find the apps responsible.

EDIT: I'm removing my initial comments for the sake of trying to be nice today. I do not agree with you whatsoever and could give you multiple reasons why you are wrong but I will save it for a longer and more detailed post.

 

[drnez]

If you leave a browser running in the background, it is still using your CPU. Larger CPU utilization results in more power usage.

Its probably a minimal amount.. I dont really agree with the people who say they've gotten like 400% better battery efficiency.

 

[88 FLUX]

If you leave a browser running in the background, it is still using your CPU. Larger CPU utilization results in more power usage.

Its probably a minimal amount.. I dont really agree with the people who say they've gotten like 400% better battery efficiency.

In my personal experience, proper usage of task management has made a big difference in my battery life. Not 400% or anything like that. And not even double. But I consider it dramatic because ATK has made the difference for me of not being able to get through the day on a single charge to being able to (or most of it, depending on usage that day).

But I'm also a minimalist user with ATK. I don't kill off any apps associated with widgets that auto update, I don't kill of my Twitter app (whichever I'm using at that time), I don't kill off Google Voice or Gmail or Messaging... bottom line, I only kill off the tasks that definitely have no reason to be idling in the background utilizing my CPU. It's no secret that battery life on phones like the EVO and Nexus One are nothing to be bragged about. So anything to improve it, even if it's just adding an extra minute of battery life, is worth it.

 

[trooper54]

Don't give it a try, the above posters do not understand how android works. Its always better to find the apps responsible.

Vincent in all of your posts against it, it sounds more that your argument against task killers is similar to what many "by the book" Christians use to defend creationism vs evolution.

Even though the data shows evolution is probably more likely, you strike it down because the bible says it was the divine power of the creator. Note that i'm using this as an example not to preach my religious views.

Despite the fact that all the data show that battery is increased with the correct and moderate (with an emphasis on correct) Task Killer, you blindly preach to us that android should be doing it all for us, because it said so.

 

[Caitlyn McKenzie]

You do realize that even the creator of ATK says it shouldn't be used for battery saving purposes?

I have never denied that it saves battery life. What I have said, multiple times, along with other members of this forum who /have/ done their research, is that:

A. ATK causes problems, especially for people who don't understand exactly how it works. This makes it a horrible idea to recommend for any newbie to Android. They won't understand why, for example, their Pandora widget stops working, or while their phone suddenly is slower. They will just blame Android.
B. ATK MASKS the real problem. The real problem is that some app is using a significant amount of battery. Yes, ATK kills this, but that is a /temporary solution/, one that is ugly. A better solution would be to do the research and uninstall that application. Not only will it save you even MORE battery life (Since the app will NEVER run, instead of only until ATK kills it), but it won't cause all sorts of problems.
C. ATK was never built for this sort of usage in the first place. That wasn't the intention, that's not why it exists.
D. It causes trouble with a lot of applications, especially when you're attempting to multitask.

I've explained this numerous times, and no one has ever given reason to why any of that is incorrect, so if you wish to say I'm wrong, then you better start explaining why I'm wrong.

Edit: It just drives me up a wall when people give advice to newbies to the forum as if ATK is the end all solution to battery life issues. You're only going to cause more problems for them in the long run, and not diagnose the real issue.

Edit #2: at the very least, if you're going to suggest it for newbies to use, you should at least give them the full disclosure of the consequences of using ATK. If it was so perfect and easy, it would be the default operating method for Android.

 

[88 FLUX]

You do realize that even the creator of ATK says it shouldn't be used for battery saving purposes?

I have never denied that it saves battery life. What I have said, multiple times, along with other members of this forum who /have/ done their research, is that:

A. ATK causes problems, especially for people who don't understand exactly how it works. This makes it a horrible idea to recommend for any newbie to Android. They won't understand why, for example, their Pandora widget stops working, or while their phone suddenly is slower. They will just blame Android.
B. ATK MASKS the real problem. The real problem is that some app is using a significant amount of battery. Yes, ATK kills this, but that is a /temporary solution/, one that is ugly. A better solution would be to do the research and uninstall that application. Not only will it save you even MORE battery life (Since the app will NEVER run, instead of only until ATK kills it), but it won't cause all sorts of problems.
C. ATK was never built for this sort of usage in the first place. That wasn't the intention, that's not why it exists.
D. It causes trouble with a lot of applications, especially when you're attempting to multitask.

I've explained this numerous times, and no one has ever given reason to why any of that is incorrect, so if you wish to say I'm wrong, then you better start explaining why I'm wrong.

Edit: It just drives me up a wall when people give advice to newbies to the forum as if ATK is the end all solution to battery life issues. You're only going to cause more problems for them in the long run, and not diagnose the real issue.

I do agree with you that ATK, in a way, is just masking the real problem which is apps not being coded properly to effectively manage power consumption. I do not agree with the rest.

There is nothing wrong with recommending ATK to a new user as long as that recommendation includes using it wisely. To use your Pandora example, wise ATK usage would include not killing Pandora. I have over a dozen apps that ATK is set to never kill because I know it will cause problems. With wise ATK usage, there is no loss of push notifications, no widget issues, etc.

Just because Android should handle task management perfectly doesn't mean it does. It handles it better than many other platforms, yes, but it isn't perfect.

Clearly there is no convincing you though.

My recommendation for new users: try ATK if you are getting frustrated with your battery life or slowness issues. If it does not work to your liking or if you do not see a difference, simply uninstall ATK and reboot your phone. You will then be back to how you were before ever using it.

 

[trooper54]

Fair enough.

And keep in mind that in most of my posts, i do warn about using Task Killers, not specifically ATK, can cause serious issues on start up, and cause the phone to lock up. And that if one does want to use a TK, then it should be used correctly and moderately.

 

[Caitlyn McKenzie]

I do agree with you that ATK, in a way, is just masking the real problem which is apps not being coded properly to effectively manage power consumption. I do not agree with the rest.

There is nothing wrong with recommending ATK to a new user as long as that recommendation includes using it wisely. To use your Pandora example, wise ATK usage would include not killing Pandora. I have over a dozen apps that ATK is set to never kill because I know it will cause problems. With wise ATK usage, there is no loss of push notifications, no widget issues, etc.

Just because Android should handle task management perfectly doesn't mean it does. It handles it better than many other platforms, yes, but it isn't perfect.

Clearly there is no convincing you though.

My recommendation for new users: try ATK if you are getting frustrated with your battery life or slowness issues. If it does not work to your liking or if you do not see a difference, simply uninstall ATK and reboot your phone. You will then be back to how you were before ever using it.

You're assuming every person you recommend ATK to knows how to use ATK fully and understands the consequences of each action. And that they would even understand that ATK is responsible for causing the issue with Pandora (note that I bring Pandora up because I've seen that very issue on this forum by another member who did not know any better, after being referred to ATK by someone here!).

If everyone who used ATK was well versed in the process structure of Android and understood what apps should/shouldn't be killed and when, then they probably wouldn't need ATK in the first place. But I think you get the point.

 

[DirkBelig]

Vincent Law has consistently taken a bullying, "You're stupid. You don't know anything. Don't use task killers!", tone in his posts on the subject but never bothers to provide anything beyond "cuz I said so" reasons for his views. On the merged task killer thread I got so sick of his useless arrogance, I drafted a point by point rebuttal/put up or STFU post but then saved it because it was late, I was tired, and I didn't want to start an unnecessary flame war. However, it appears it may be necessary to be had. Here is one non-incendiary part of that post:

The largest problem with your "find the cause and uninstall it" attitude is that we have no baseline to compare with. I had my Pre for three months when one weekend I noticed I was almost out of gas by the late afternoon. Huh? I tracked it back to a game and a concert finder app I'd downloaded from the App Catalog - they were the only new apps - and after tossing them normal battery life returned. When Facebook was working on their Pre app with notifications, again I noticed the battery drain, but this was because after 8-9 months, I was attuned to what "normal" is. Most of us have had our EVOs for less than a week and are still conditioning the battery, so what is "normal"? We don't know.​

When people are experiencing terrible battery life with their stock phones, but are able to double the run time and not experience any usability issues after properly configuring a task killer, WHAT'S THE FREAKING PROBLEM?!? Are task killers doing their black magic like a bizzaro version of Ned on Pushing Daisies and for every app killed, a masturbating kitten somewhere also dies? (Ummm...I may be getting my Internet memes mixed up.)

People have crap battery life, add a task killer, get better battery life, don't seem to have any problems with getting mail or alarms or whatever and are now happy. If Vince can stop selling Slap-Chops for a moment and explain how exactly we're meddling with the natural order of things, I'm sure we could benefit from his wisdom.

 

[ChaosShadow]

I just started using ATK yesterday, and I immediately noticed an improvement on my battery life.

Currently I have ATK ignore the important apps I prefer to have open, and have it auto-kill apps (set to aggressive) every 30 mins. So far it's working great, and not having any issues with apps not running correctly... etc.

 

[akarol]

Any chance of getting some numerical values on this improvement?

 

[pwnst_r]

Regarding ATK, if you don't know exactly what you're killing, don't kill it. Pretty simple. I'm not sure about battery life, but I like to use ATK because I'm a RAM whore like that. Pretty simple.

 

[88 FLUX]

You're assuming every person you recommend ATK to knows how to use ATK fully and understands the consequences of each action. And that they would even understand that ATK is responsible for causing the issue with Pandora (note that I bring Pandora up because I've seen that very issue on this forum by another member who did not know any better, after being referred to ATK by someone here!).

If everyone who used ATK was well versed in the process structure of Android and understood what apps should/shouldn't be killed and when, then they probably wouldn't need ATK in the first place. But I think you get the point.

Like George Carlin said in a joke, buying a safe car doesn't excuse you from having to learn how to drive the thing. First, you learn how to drive, THEN you buy your safe car.

Similar fashion, using ATK doesn't excuse you from knowing how to properly manage your open apps. First, you determine what you should and shouldn't kill, THEN you use ATK to your hearts content.