Wifi problems: how to determine DNS’s & Network Prefix Length??

[YourNeighborTotoro]

So the backstory to that question is, I recently charged/turned on an old smartphone from 2017 (Moto E4 Plus running Nougat/7.1.1) whose carrier I’ve since left, and noticed that it has a treasure trove of old photos/videos on its MicroSD card.

Problem is? ONLY this phone seems to recognize that MSD… I’ve removed & tried it in FOUR different other phones (& 3 different laptops), and in each one it comes up as some variation of unsupported/unreadable (it’s been suggested that it was mistakenly formatted as internal storage, NOT portable, which would've been ideal...).

Now, why didn’t I just try plugging the phone directly into a computer via MicroUSB to USB cable, and transferring everything that way, you ask? Because of the 3 transfer apps I’ve tried— Android File Transfer, Handshaker, and OpenMTP— this phone doesn’t show up on any of those, I just get “can’t access device storage”-type options... IF I get anything at all (but again, maybe that's the problem w/ internal storage??).

Well then, why not just try downloading another transfer program TO this phone, or upload all the files I want to the Cloud? (Or worst case, email them individually to myself?). Well, for whatever inconvenient reason, this is the ONLY one of those 4 phones that CAN’T CONNECT TO WIFI, it just keeps showing up as “Disconnected” or “Disabled.” :/

Now about that last issue: I DO have another Moto phone that was released less than a year after this one which IS able to get online, so I noted its internet settings (i.e. proxy, IP address, gateway), hoping that by typing those into this internet-less phone, I could get it online(?). So far, I’ve used the same IP address & Gateway (also Proxy as "None," tho if I set the IP address as “DHCP”--like the other phone has-- I couldn’t type in the IP addy/Gateway etc..).

Still, the newer phone DIDN'T list the Network Prefix Length, DNS1, or DNS2 like this slightly older one is asking for, so I don’t know what to put there? (the newer one did however list a MAC address, Subnet Mask, and DNS).

So, IS there any way to figure the NPL & DNS1 & 2, based on any of that other information??

Failing that, I guess the next step would be to find/invest in a MicroUSB-to-Ethernet adapter & try plugging this phone directly into my modem, then backing up/transferring everything that way (but, that’s assuming I find a good Android-compatible one among the dozens listed on Amazon; most of the ones I've seen so far are USB-C...)

Anyway, ANY insight into internet settings, why those on this phone might not be working compared to what's on the others, resetting/typing stuff into the modem/router, or just other helpful insight/suggestions in general would be EXTREMELY appreciated.

Thank you!!

 

[hallux]

Now about that last issue: I DO have another Moto phone that was released less than a year after this one which IS able to get online, so I noted its internet settings (i.e. proxy, IP address, gateway), hoping that by typing those into this internet-less phone, I could get it online(?). So far, I’ve used the same IP address & Gateway (also Proxy as "None," tho if I set the IP address as “DHCP”--like the other phone has-- I couldn’t type in the IP addy/Gateway etc..).

Still, the newer phone DIDN'T list the Network Prefix Length, DNS1, or DNS2 like this slightly older one is asking for, so I don’t know what to put there? (the newer one did however list a MAC address, Subnet Mask, and DNS).


Thank you!!

So, some basic networking concepts...

Setting two devices to use the same IP is not a good idea. That can cause problems on the network. I get what you're TRYING to do "this IP worked, so let me use it on this other device", but that's not going to work. Yes, setting to DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol) will cause the phone to not allow you to set the IP address, subnet mask (network prefix length is another way to express the subnet mask) or the gateway as those are determined/provided by the router when the address is assigned (the router IS the gateway, and also the DHCP server). You shouldn't need a proxy, those are usually used in corporate environments to filter network traffic.

Your router, as part of serving up the address for the device to use, should also be providing the DNS addresses. If it doesn't and the phone allows you to enter addresses for the DNS (not for the device IP!), enter 8.8.8.8 for one and 8.8.4.4 These are Google public DNS addresses - https://developers.google.com/speed...IP addresses,-The Google Public&text=8.8.,4.4

Is the router one you have admin access to? Is it possible the old phone was removed from an approved access list for the router, which is preventing connection?

 

[YourNeighborTotoro]

Hello and thanks v. much for your reply, and insight!

Anyway fortunately YES, this is my/our home internet connection, w/ a router & modem that we've been borrowing/renting from the cable company since we moved into this rental apt. a few months back (and yes, I know I should probably buy one or both to save ourselves $$ in the long run; I welcome any suggestions).

I'm fairly certain that this is the first time I've tried connecting this problematic phone to our new network/router/modem, I have an older Netgear one that I'd purchased that I was using at our previous residence where I WAS able to get this phone online (granted, I was using a different carrier for that phone, assuming that has much to do with the internet settings).

So I suppose I could either try connecting that old router at the new place, or possibly adjusting the settings on either my current router/modem, but then I risk losing internet for our computers (and since I work from home, that's something I could only risk trying on the weekend), current phones, etc.

As far as the (as you say likely irrelevant) minutiae is concerned, I did actually see that the existing, grayed-out DNS1 & DNS2 for this offline phone WERE actually 8.8.8.8 & 8.8.4.4 as you suggested, I just didn't know if those would still apply if I tried typing in/replicating the IP address & gateway of a similar, connected phone.

I still don't know the Network Prefix Length, but as you said, knowing/inputting that still might not make a difference. If I understood you correctly, that's the same as the Subnet mask, which the other phone lists as a 10-digit, 255.yyy.yyy.0-type number. This phone was showing just a 2-digit number, and doesn't let me type in periods (not sure if what this site suggest applies:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24447658/how-to-convert-netmask-to-network-prefix-length )

Anyway, assuming they could get me online, some of the Advanced WiFi menu settings/other internet-related variables that I see that this phone has are:

-Install Certificates (though this just prompts me to search "recent/downloads/[the SD card in question]")

-Wi-Fi Direct (though this just seems to let me rename this phone/"Create group"). Then below that, "Peer devices" (which I can only send invites out to) and "Remembered groups" (which I can't edit)

-Configure Device (this just has a grayed-out "Start PBC", with an option to "Rename device" (as in this phone)

-Autonomous Group Broadcast Band (which is grayed out/can't be edited)

-Limit number of Wi-Fi Direct Devices to improve performance (and I can choose btwn. 2-8 devices)

-WiFi Direct Inactivity timeout (w/ a choice btwn. 15-60 mins. or Never disconnect)

-Auto Connect remembered WiFi Direct Groups (I have this checked)

Then,
-WPS Push button (this calls fo me to "Press the Wi-Fi Protected Setup button on my router," which could make a difference, though again, I hesitant to make any adjustments (at least during the work week) and potentially lose coverage for the whole house.

-WPS Pin Entry (this calls for me to enter a Pin on my "WiFi router", which again, I'm hesitant to adjust until I know what I'm doing)
-Passpoint TM: I have this as "ON" to match this other phone.

The "Configure Wi-Fi" menu (gear icon) lists:
-Saved Networks,

-Reset default networks (for "restoring default WiFi network settings," which I've already tried several times),

-Network notification (to "Notify whenever a public network is available," which I have Checked),

-Keep WiFi on during sleep (I have this as "Always" vs. Only When Plugged In or Never, I didn't see any other phones with this option though)

My MAC address is filled out, the IP address however is listed as "Unavailable."

-As far as those other settings I'd previously mentioned trying to adjust, for the "Proxy," I can only choose "None," "Manual," or "Proxy Auto-Config."

-And for "IP settings," I can only choose "DHCP" (which as you say I can't adjust) and "Static" (which again, allowed me to adjust the IP address, gateway, DNS1 & 2 etc)

So again, the only variables/options I can imagine at this point-- besides investing in a MicroUSB-to-Ethernet adapter-- are to either try substituting my old *modem for my current one, adjusting those "WPS Push Button" and "WPS Pin Entry" settings/possibly typing something into the *router.

But as always, any/all insight into any of those settings/options would be extremely appreciated!! Thank you!!

 

[hallux]

First, let me congratulate you on one of the most detailed posts asking for help that this site has ever seen!

Now, let me see what I can do with this..

Hello and thanks v. much for your reply, and insight!

Anyway fortunately YES, this is my/our home internet connection, w/ a router & modem that we've been borrowing/renting from the cable company since we moved into this rental apt. a few months back (and yes, I know I should probably buy one or both to save ourselves $$ in the long run; I welcome any suggestions).

I'm fairly certain that this is the first time I've tried connecting this problematic phone to our new network/router/modem, I have an older Netgear one that I'd purchased that I was using at our previous residence where I WAS able to get this phone online (granted, I was using a different carrier for that phone, assuming that has much to do with the internet settings).

So I suppose I could either try connecting that old router at the new place, or possibly adjusting the settings on either my current router/modem, but then I risk losing internet for our computers (and since I work from home, that's something I could only risk trying on the weekend), current phones, etc.

Have you checked with your ISP to see if they'll help you connect the device? The cellular carrier used on the phone doesn't matter. Renting those devices is a personal decision. I buy my own and configure it to my liking.

As far as the (as you say likely irrelevant) minutiae is concerned, I did actually see that the existing, grayed-out DNS1 & DNS2 for this offline phone WERE actually 8.8.8.8 & 8.8.4.4 as you suggested, I just didn't know if those would still apply if I tried typing in/replicating the IP address & gateway of a similar, connected phone.

So, the router will 'serve' the DNS addresses to the the network device when it gives the IP address through DHCP (the most-preferred way to connect devices in a home network as it's the easiest to manage). Again - DO NOT just replicate the IP configuration of one device on another, using the same IP on multiple devices will cause issues on the network. The IP address is how the network communicates with each device, each device on the network needs a unique IP address.

I still don't know the Network Prefix Length, but as you said, knowing/inputting that still might not make a difference. If I understood you correctly, that's the same as the Subnet mask, which the other phone lists as a 10-digit, 255.yyy.yyy.0-type number. This phone was showing just a 2-digit number, and doesn't let me type in periods (not sure if what this site suggest applies:
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/24447658/how-to-convert-netmask-to-network-prefix-length )

The network prefix length is just a different way to express the subnet mask.

Anyway, assuming they could get me online, some of the Advanced WiFi menu settings/other internet-related variables that I see that this phone has are:

-Install Certificates (though this just prompts me to search "recent/downloads/[the SD card in question]")

-Wi-Fi Direct (though this just seems to let me rename this phone/"Create group"). Then below that, "Peer devices" (which I can only send invites out to) and "Remembered groups" (which I can't edit)

-Configure Device (this just has a grayed-out "Start PBC", with an option to "Rename device" (as in this phone)

-Autonomous Group Broadcast Band (which is grayed out/can't be edited)

-Limit number of Wi-Fi Direct Devices to improve performance (and I can choose btwn. 2-8 devices)

-WiFi Direct Inactivity timeout (w/ a choice btwn. 15-60 mins. or Never disconnect)

-Auto Connect remembered WiFi Direct Groups (I have this checked)

WiFi direct isn't involved in connecting to a router, it's more for casting video to a TV without being on the network or for sharing files quickly between devices.

Then,
-WPS Push button (this calls fo me to "Press the Wi-Fi Protected Setup button on my router," which could make a difference, though again, I hesitant to make any adjustments (at least during the work week) and potentially lose coverage for the whole house.

-WPS Pin Entry (this calls for me to enter a Pin on my "WiFi router", which again, I'm hesitant to adjust until I know what I'm doing)
-Passpoint TM: I have this as "ON" to match this other phone.

WPS was found to be insecure and is no longer used in most instances. Ignore this stuff.

The "Configure Wi-Fi" menu (gear icon) lists:
-Saved Networks,

-Reset default networks (for "restoring default WiFi network settings," which I've already tried several times),

-Network notification (to "Notify whenever a public network is available," which I have Checked),

-Keep WiFi on during sleep (I have this as "Always" vs. Only When Plugged In or Never, I didn't see any other phones with this option though)

My MAC address is filled out, the IP address however is listed as "Unavailable."

-As far as those other settings I'd previously mentioned trying to adjust, for the "Proxy," I can only choose "None," "Manual," or "Proxy Auto-Config."

-And for "IP settings," I can only choose "DHCP" (which as you say I can't adjust) and "Static" (which again, allowed me to adjust the IP address, gateway, DNS1 & 2 etc)

Keep this all like this. Keep it set to DHCP, no need for a proxy configuration.

So again, the only variables/options I can imagine at this point-- besides investing in a MicroUSB-to-Ethernet adapter-- are to either try substituting my old router for my current one, adjusting those "WPS Push Button" and "WPS Pin Entry" settings/possibly typing something into either the router or modem.

But as always, any/all insight into any of those settings/options would be extremely appreciated!! Thank you!!

As I noted at the top - check with your ISP as they usually configure the router for customers renting them. Maybe they set the router up with a MAC address filter and this device is not on the 'white list' on the new router, allowing a connection. That's something else to be mindful of - some devices now allow the device MAC address to be randomized for WiFi connections (chosen during the first connection to a WiFi network, for each network), to randomize it each time the device connects to the network. This can be a problem for networks with MAC filtering, you need a consistent MAC address in those situations.

I tried to match your level of detail, how did I do?

 

[spARTacus]

Re: Wifi problems: how to determine DNS’s & Network Prefix Length??

Maybe connect the old router to the new router as an AP, or as a separate subnet within your home, and then try to connect the old phone to the WiFi from the old router. However, that can be a bit more than trivial to do if you don't understand how to do it.

I have some old windowsVista laptops for example that will not connect to my newer router wifi/wirelessly but will connected wired, and will also still connect to an old router wifi/wirelessly. I have never looked into too deeply why, but I suspect in my case it could be something about different 2.4 not backwards compatible standards (increments) for security purpose options in the new router.

 

[YourNeighborTotoro]

First, let me congratulate you on one of the most detailed posts asking for help that this site has ever seen!

I tried to match your level of detail, how did I do?

Ha, you were great amigo, and I am incredibly grateful… yes, unfortunately there are a number of variables/complications to this mystery, involving hardware, software, and settings (and as you mentioned w/ the WPS, internet/wifi etc. is certainly evolving from year to year).

Anyway yeah, I suppose one of the next steps may be to simply call my ISP/Spectrum; I actually already did so last night to see if they could walk me through the WPS question (they did a few years ago when my wife had another device that she couldn’t get online), only to be told that they’ve since the routers available for residential customers such as myself no longer have the WSP feature (& they’re only available for business customers)… as a result, my only way to get a router with that feature would be to buy it myself (but then since it wouldn’t be their equipment, they’d have no obligation to help me make adjustments to it).

Still, if you say that can be ignored, I’ll look into other possibilities. I was mainly just curious if I tried plugging in another router— like my old 2010 Netgear one— or connecting this phone to a different network, or hardwiring the phone directly into the modem via a MicroUSB-to-Ethernet adapter if I’d have to deal with WPS-type adjustments??

As of right now, as far as other hardware options, based on someone else’s recommendation I am looking into ordering an inexpensive MicroUSB to female-USB adapter, hoping that I could try attaching a flash drive directly to the phone and transferring things from the card to there. Still, if I’ve been unable to get other devices/computers to recognize this internal MSD as is, I don’t know if attaching a flash drive directly to this phone will make much of a difference either…

 

[YourNeighborTotoro]

Re: Wifi problems: how to determine DNS’s & Network Prefix Length??

Maybe connect the old router to the new router as an AP, or as a separate subnet within your home, and then try to connect the old phone to the WiFi from the old router. However, that can be a bit more than trivial to do if you don't understand how to do it.

I have some old windowsVista laptops for example that will not connect to my newer router wifi/wirelessly but will connected wired, and will also still connect to an old router wifi/wirelessly.

Thank you for chiming in!! Anyway as far as router options are concerned, I did already try resetting my existing Spectrum one— that was one of the earliest possibilities I considered— without any change. Based on the previous post, it doesn’t adjusting the WPS on it/any router might make a difference; I’ve yet to try connecting this phone to another network (like at a friend/family member’s place, a public library, Starbucks, etc).

Anyway, as far as that 2nd router, it is an old Netgear WNR200 that I got from Fry’s in 2010 (when Fry’s still existed…), it was still working/getting this troublesome phone and other electronics online 5 months ago before we relocated and we opened a new account with Spectrum (with a new modem & router). Although I DID try plugging it in at our current place/to our current modem & Wifi earlier today and restarting/resetting both, I couldn’t get anything online. While I’m sure there may be MANY other adjustments I’d have to make, with it being a personal router and not Spectrum’s I’m sure their support team won’t be any help.

And sadly yeah, although I’m not familiar with alt subnets or access point (I had to Google that last one), if you have any recommendations on which method I might try, I could definitely look into it!!

But hopefully for the time being, assuming that thereare no elaborate settings in the phone itself I’d have to change (or that could potentially erasing this internal MSD I’m trying to do a rescue mission on), getting an adapter and plugging this phone directly into the modem— like you mentioned had worked for those Vista laptops— might be the next hardware solution I may have to look into.

Thank you!!