04-23-2012 10:38 PM
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  1. Maikai.Guy's Avatar
    Sorry man. Map quest free in iOS just trumps google Nav so hard, she sounds healthy, will steer you in the right direction and let's you know when recalculating is taking place. Fin.
    Just finished a quick eval of MapQuest. If you had nothing, this is good.

    The immediate problem I see with it is it's not stitched together very well with the web. With Google navigation, I can put in the name of a business and it knows where it is... even if it's in another State.

    For example, I searched on "Lutron" and MQ gave me a bunch of seemingly totally unrelated locations near were I am. It did not supply Lutron's HQ in Coopersburg, PA or it's dedicated showroom in Manhattan. Navigation did... and left out all the other useless references.

    Also, MQ did not dive into my contacts list to provide navigation assistance to a friend's house.

    Nor does it tell me if I'm close to anyone I share my location with.

    Nor.... well... you get the picture.

    Again, MQ is great if you had nothing else to rely on... like iPhoners. But for someone already on Android and tied into all the integrated location features/services/contacts, it's kind of a fail.
    04-10-2012 02:01 PM
  2. Maikai.Guy's Avatar
    I hear your point, android tabs and OS are better. You can feel that way For me I know using powerful software like keynote on a iPad for a presentation is by far superior. We agree to disagree I was a long time Android user, but iOS is just far quicker to integrate in my life. Not to long ago you had to convert power points to work on the galaxy tab. ICS has stepped up, and that is good. I like both platforms, but when you said android tablet for enterprise is the king of presentation and does it more dynamically I spit out my coffee and laughed so hard. Thank you
    Well... maybe iOS5 can do stuff I'm not aware of?

    My typical presentation scenario is an interactive .ppt presentation. We'll pour over some graphed data, then dive into the context, methods and sources. This will require quickly switching from presentation to spreadsheet, to document, to website, ....

    I frequently need to dig up a reference file or data sheet from my own sub-directories.

    The ability to switch back and forth needs to be quick and the sources change a lot during an hour or two meeting.

    I need to keep my place in each of these, while we switch between the multiple sources.... always using the presentation to keep the meeting/conversation focused. I swear, everyone is ADD so digression is rampant! ;-)

    The last time I seriously looked, Apple was unable to give me a solution to this situation... which in my mind, must be a very common situation in the business world.

    If my I could just live in an app, like a radiologist would, I'm sure I'd feel differently.
    04-10-2012 02:13 PM
  3. Maikai.Guy's Avatar
    But this is exactly how you come across in these discussions, but from the other point of view. Despite a mountain of real world examples of people using their iPads for productive purposes, you simply dismiss all of it because they aren't doing things the way you want to do things...browse to a file in a directory. But times are changing, and not everyone works that way anymore, I hope you can at least acknowledge that to be true.
    I'm beginning to suspect you don't read what I write very carefully.

    I haven't "dismissed all of it." I have very clearly admitted iOS is the platform to be on for at least two groups of people... doctors and teenage girls!

    If an app on an iPad can complete a task the user wants to complete, and it helps them get their job done, what difference does it make how they got it done? If a doctor can pull up his/her patients' chart, or a teacher can display his/her lesson for the day, a salesperson shows his/her presentation to a boardroom - all of these things done from an iPad...is this not real work getting done? I've personally witnessed every one of these things, and I'm sure a lot of other folks have, and there is plenty of info on the old intraweb to show this to be true. Are all of these people simply delusional teenage girls? Can Android tablets do the same things, and maybe a little more? Of course they can, I've never said anything to the contrary. But at least admit productivity is possible on devices other than Android.
    I don't remember saying productivity is not possible on Apple. I remember saying my work is much more easily accomplished in Android. This time of data need/access is not changing in business. If anything the need to have multiple portals open is increasing, not decreasing. Sure, many people can live with a single app to do something, but IMHO, that's a minority of people. They currently put up with the hassles/limitations Apple has because it's essentially the only tablet game in town. The Android tablet makers... and Google... and NVIDIA... have stepped on their collective wieners and it will take John Q Public awhile to trust them again.

    Yes, people can give presenations or show spreadsheets or, or, or with an iPad. But get into a real world "hashing through the data" type of mission and using an iPad becomes a headache real fast. It becomes time to put down the iPad and reach for a notebook computer way before that threshold is reached with Android.

    And you continue to call me and others on here Apple Fanboys, despite another mountain of evidence to the contrary. You draw a line in the sand for everyone, and make everything Android vs. Apple, and you HAVE to be on one side or the other. And if not on your side, you dismiss the person as an Apple fanboy. It's kinda silly at this point, don't you think?
    Um... er... "Apple fan-boy" is a term of endearment? Yeah! That's it. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. It's a term of endearment. How dare you spurn my emotions so callously! I'm hurt... so very hurt.
    04-10-2012 02:34 PM
  4. lpt2569's Avatar
    I remember saying my work is much more easily accomplished in Android....But get into a real world "hashing through the data" type of mission and using an iPad becomes a headache real fast. It becomes time to put down the iPad and reach for a notebook computer way before that threshold is reached with Android.
    Not everybody lives in your "real world". But I'm glad you are happy there. Work does not equal "hashing through the data" as a business person. Free your mind, the rest will follow.
    04-10-2012 03:55 PM
  5. Maikai.Guy's Avatar
    Not everybody lives in your "real world". But I'm glad you are happy there. Work does not equal "hashing through the data" as a business person. Free your mind, the rest will follow.
    Au contraire, business is all about hashing through the data. Good business decisions are based on good intel, which in a large part, comes from thrashing data. I couldn't imagine it otherwise.

    If you're *deciding* what to do... *deciding* which direction to take a product line... *deciding* which vendor to partner with... how do you do that without doing a detailed business analysis. Analysis, by definition is thrashing data.

    Decisions don't get done by a lone cowboy who then simply presents a series of Powerpoint slides to the Board or a managing body saying "Listen up! This is what we will do!" No. People pitch what they think should be done, then dynamically defend/support the position with facts and gathered data... and trends... and specs... and... and...and... There is a lot of discussion and "what if" scenarios that have to be worked through.

    Often the discussion takes a hard left turn and something previously thought to be inconsequential becomes important to know... and it needs to be known NOW... no time to go away and reconvene... NOW!

    No my friend... business is all about multi-tasking and thrashing data. And this is where I find the iPad is an epic fail.

    Unless you're in a position where you're simply told what to do and your job is to parrot that edict down to your team. Then, all you need is single presentation app.
    04-10-2012 04:37 PM
  6. lpt2569's Avatar
    But you still insist anyone using an ipad for anything work related is either a radiologist or a teenage girl?

    Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk
    04-10-2012 06:56 PM
  7. Maikai.Guy's Avatar
    But you still insist anyone using an ipad for anything work related is either a radiologist or a teenage girl?

    Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk
    I have never claimed teenage girls use the iPad for work related applications.

    Seriously, if you read what I write, you'd know I've said that iPads are used all the time for work. It's the only game in town right now. The number of iPads out in the wild absolutely eclipses the number of Android tablets. Of course people from all walks of life are trying to press them into business use.

    My point has always been that pressing a iPad into an enterprise roll is, at very best, painful and that Android is far better suited for the enterprise environment. You have repeatedly countered with work examples which use a dedicated/specific app, which I have repeatedly rejected as being a good example of typical enterprise usage.

    Then you gave up in frustration and I declared sweet victory, remember?

    If your work only requires you to run one app, it doesn't really matter which kind of tablet you use. Once in the app, you're in the environment the developer created, not the OS. The OS is irrelevant at that point. The reason I use the radiologist example is because there is no professional app that displays radio-graphs on an Android tablet. At least none that I'm aware of. So that's why I say iPad is great for radiologists.

    ...radiologists and teenage girls. Those are the two groups for which iPad is absolutely perfect. ;-)
    04-10-2012 07:25 PM
  8. lpt2569's Avatar
    OK. Cool. Just wanted to see you say the same thing again. Brilliant. Now hop on that single speed and ride out of town whistling your one note tune. Later gator.

    Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk
    04-10-2012 07:36 PM
  9. Johnly's Avatar
    This is silly, MaiKai.Guy doesn't know that mapquest is web integrated and knows business, and the local. I can do all those other things as well....i just know how to operate my OS and it does it all. There is an app for that! Bahaha, hilarious man. I can't take anything to serious on this thread because of the missinformation. Enjoy your Koolaid....keep it iced down a little, this summer will be hot.

    I am so glad I know better, and what the dark side is ACTUALLY capable of.....I would love to argue and go back and forth....but frankly I have zero desire to do that with you. Glad your happy and work your OS the way it works for you. Just realize I can do all those things you say I can't. Remember I haven't knocked the Android OS, I like it. But facts are facts, and I doubt you own any iOS products because you don't seem to know what the OS CAN do.
    04-10-2012 07:42 PM
  10. piizzadude's Avatar
    I love how this conversation went the way most rational conversations between I-anything and Android people go. Kinda funny to watch though.

    The point of all this is simple. We like choice, some go the I-route, some go the Android route. TO each his own and whatever works for ya.

    Personally I would never have an I-anything, I just prefer Android.
    04-10-2012 07:50 PM
  11. lpt2569's Avatar
    Word!

    Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk
    04-10-2012 07:51 PM
  12. Johnly's Avatar
    But you still insist anyone using an ipad for anything work related is either a radiologist or a teenage girl?

    Sent from my SCH-I510 using Tapatalk
    And there is the strength and credit in that argument. For teenage girls and doctors.
    04-10-2012 07:57 PM
  13. Maikai.Guy's Avatar
    This is silly, MaiKai.Guy doesn't know that mapquest is web integrated and knows business, and the local. I can do all those other things as well....i just know how to operate my OS and it does it all. There is an app for that! Bahaha, hilarious man. I can't take anything to serious on this thread because of the missinformation. Enjoy your Koolaid....keep it iced down a little, this summer will be hot.

    I am so glad I know better, and what the dark side is ACTUALLY capable of.....I would love to argue and go back and forth....but frankly I have zero desire to do that with you. Glad your happy and work your OS the way it works for you. Just realize I can do all those things you say I can't. Remember I haven't knocked the Android OS, I like it. But facts are facts, and I doubt you own any iOS products because you don't seem to know what the OS CAN do.
    I love these sweeping condemnations that I don't know this or that, or my mind is closed to this or that.

    If you read what I write you'll see I express an opinion and usually give examples. I gave an example of what I found with MapQuest. Rather than making a sweeping condemnation of my message, why don't you address the details I provided which supported my position?

    I owned the first three iPhones, but it's true I lack intimate knowledge of iOS5, other than conversations with people. I've made no secret of that. In fact, I even asked you straight out if something has changed that I'm not aware of and gave you very specific examples of how I use my Android tablet. You neglected to address a single one.

    At the risk of sounding like an old man (Ok, I am middle aged), the problem with the younger generations is they lack the fundamentals that my generation and older were provided. That list of lacking fundamentals is deep, but in this case, the one of interest is the ability to debate.

    A debate consists of "point - counterpoint" and each point is usually supported. People today have completely lost that ability. Everything is now "point - dismiss their point as absurd and make fun of them." IMHO, this is the very reason our country is so politically polarized... to the point of our government being dysfunctional. While growing up, there has always been lively debate between the parties, but in the past 10 to 20 years, I've witnessed the "debate" between parties turn to "unsupported condescending ridicule" between parties.

    It seems incredibly convenient to me that when it comes time for you guys to finally defend your positions and/or give one shred of support to counter my claims/opinions/assumptions, you instead put on your most condescending manner and proclaim you have the facts to counter my claims, but it's not worth your time to share them. Seriously? Listen to yourselves. Is that how you really want to sound? Is that the guy you really want to be?

    Guys. Reread your posts. Neither of you have made/supported a single point. You've made sweeping claims and sweeping condemnations, without backing a single thing up. I've provided specific situations for my business use and made specific observations for MQ... none of which you addressed.

    Bottom line: You've got nothing and it's painfully obvious.
    04-11-2012 09:15 AM
  14. Johnly's Avatar
    I love these assumptions that I don't know this or that, or my mind is closed to this or that.

    If you read what I write you'll see I express an opinion and usually give examples. I gave an example of what I found with MapQuest. Rather than making a sweeping condemnation of my message, why not address the details I provided that supported my position.

    I owned the first three iPhones, but it's true I lack intimate knowledge of iOS5, other than conversations with people. I've made no secret of that. In fact, I even asked you straight out if something has changed that I'm not aware of and gave you very specific instances. You neglected to address a single one.

    At the risk of sounding like an old man (Ok, I am middle aged), the problem with the younger generations is they lack the fundamentals that my generation and older were provided. That list of lacking fundamentals is deep, but in this case, the one of interest is the ability to debate.

    A debate consists of "point - counterpoint" and each point is usually supported. People today have completely lost that ability. Everything is "point - dismiss their point as absurd and make fun of him."

    It seems incredibly convenient to me that when it comes time for you guys to defend your positions and/or give one shred of supporting evidence to counter my claims/opinions/assumptions, you instead put on your most condescending manner and proclaim you have the facts to counter my claims, but it's not worth your time to share them. Seriously?

    Guys. Reread your posts. Neither of you have made a single point. You've made sweeping claims and sweeping condemnations, without backing a single thing up. I've provided specific situations for my business use and made specific observations for MQ... none of which you are able to counter. Bottom line: You've got nothing and it's painfully obvious.
    All joking aside, and with that I don't mean to feather anyone's nest, but I simply have no desire to debate this or re read the previous post. Been there done that. I just don't take this debate seriously, so I invest nothing into it. If it was on point, sure, I would. But I lack fundamentals your generation does so I guess I am not qualified. Enjoy :-)
    04-11-2012 09:26 AM
  15. Maikai.Guy's Avatar
    All joking aside, and with that I don't mean to feather anyone's nest, but I simply have no desire to debate this or re read the previous post. Been there done that. I just don't take this debate seriously, so I invest nothing into it. If it was on point, sure, I would. But I lack fundamentals your generation does so I guess I am not qualified. Enjoy :-)
    Yeah... well... like I said... sweeping claims and sweeping condemnations with zero backup. My advice to you is don't be that guy. I risk being out of place offering advice after we squared off, but the only person you will ever impress with that is yourself or already like-minded people. Hollow claims and unimpressive/missing support will never impress/sway/motivate anyone and will limit you in your pursuit of success.

    Especially in these times a detailed thoughtful man will stand out from the masses.

    All joking aside. Enjoy. :-)
    04-11-2012 10:42 AM
  16. Johnly's Avatar
    Yeah... well... like I said... sweeping claims and sweeping condemnations with zero backup. My advice to you is don't be that guy. I risk being out of place offering advice after we squared off, but the only person you will ever impress with that is yourself or already like-minded people. Hollow claims and unimpressive/missing support will never impress/sway/motivate anyone and will limit you in your pursuit of success.

    Especially in these times a detailed thoughtful man will stand out from the masses.

    All joking aside. Enjoy. :-)
    Don't you have a business to run?
    04-11-2012 10:54 AM
  17. Johnly's Avatar
    Back to the topic and hand. Keynote software is one of the best enterprise solutions for presenting on a iPad. We can also present from that to PC oriented devices. That is where the apple OS shines compared to ICS. It does it seamless. One of the reasons the iPad has a broader scope of power and market infiltration is that apple has been at this game longer than androids OS. I love ICS, and the potential will be realized soon. I love that we all have choices, and that OS competition keeps our products even better!

    Is there a definitive winner in the Tablet market? Right now yes, Apple integrates into enterprise solutions much better than android right now. Does that mean you can't use android to run your presentations? Certainly not. Anyone educated enough and is able to see BS when it presents itself knows that.
    04-11-2012 11:04 AM
  18. piizzadude's Avatar
    I admit that the iPad is still the leader in the tablet game.

    I also admit that I have very little experience with either platform

    What I have seen and done with both platforms (as far as tablets go) Apple was easier.

    What I will say is that I am POSITIVE that the gap has closed considerably and I believe that by Christmas of this year, that statement will no longer be true.
    04-11-2012 03:51 PM
  19. Maikai.Guy's Avatar
    Of course iPad is the current leader in the tablet game. The Android tablet makers, along with Google and NVIDIA all stepped on their collective wieners.

    It started with Honeycomb. Google put too little effort into it or they started the project too late. Pick one. Whatever the issue, it really needed to be ready as of January 2011 and it wasn't. Even when it was finally released with the XOOM it was not-ready-for-prime-time. It took two upgrades before the tablet and OS started running smoothly for most people.

    Motorola screwed up their marketing of the XOOM. I really think they thought it would sell itself. The advertising was confusing, at best. Out of 4 or 5 commercials, I think only one actually pitched the tablet directly. The others were extremely esoteric.

    NVIDIA shot itself (and every vendor who chose to use them) in the foot when it starting shooting out news releases immediately after CES about their new quad-core chips and how they would make tablets awesome. Um... what about all these first gen tablets, that haven't even hit the market yet, based on your dual-core processor? Opps! And then NVIDIA wondered why their chip sales volumes weren't what they expected. Duh!

    And then there was every manufacturer who ever dreamed of making an Android tablet out there confusing the bejesus out of the few remaining interested consumers.

    Android tablets are only now ready to compete. It would be nice if they could start from zero, but there are a lot of negative perceptions to overcome first. It's like finally ready to run a race, but forced to start 5 yards behind the starting line.

    For this reason, and the head start iPad has had, the number of iPads in the wild will eclipse Android tablets in the wild for quite some time. That, of course, has no bearing on which is better for enterprise applications, where a true multitasking, file structure based OS is most desireable... because business seldom uses only one app at a time.

    Teenage girls use one app at a time. (The devil made me write that!)

    Business needs to be able to freely navigate to data and have multiple windows/apps open on that data. Like one would on a Windows based notebook. ;-)

    Keynote = Powerpoint + more coolness. It's nice, no doubt. It's no way a game changer. It's very nice, but to distribute presentations to folks, one needs to export to Powerpoint, because an INCREDIBLY OVERWHELMING percentage of businesspeople are Microsoft Windows based. Once exported to Powerpoint... buh-bye added coolness. The only thing remaining is some extra themes. Big deal. :-(
    04-11-2012 06:01 PM
  20. Maikai.Guy's Avatar
    Is there a definitive winner in the Tablet market? Right now yes, Apple integrates into enterprise solutions much better than android right now.
    Another sweeping claim without support.

    Exactly how does it integrate better? Cite examples. Support your argument.

    Own it.
    04-11-2012 06:40 PM
  21. Speedygi's Avatar
    Here's my take:

    Apple has apps that have enterprise features added into them and has added support for enterprise email in the OS

    Android also has apps that have enterprise features and has also has added support for enterprise email in the OS.

    They are basically the same with only one difference, android links it's apps mores seamlessly through intent calling and that is wholly the advantages of having the Android apis to work with. Apple's Apis are different And I dare say less intuitive.
    04-12-2012 01:07 AM
  22. Johnly's Avatar
    I admit that the iPad is still the leader in the tablet game.

    I also admit that I have very little experience with either platform

    What I have seen and done with both platforms (as far as tablets go) Apple was easier.

    What I will say is that I am POSITIVE that the gap has closed considerably and I believe that by Christmas of this year, that statement will no longer be true.
    You my friend are intuitive......
    04-12-2012 01:34 AM
  23. Maikai.Guy's Avatar
    Talking about how single apps compare to each other completely misses the point about a tablet's applicability to enterprise, IMHO. And it just winds people around an axle.

    For people saying "one app is all people need to do business", I'd like know if they only use one window at a time on a Windows machine. I'm sitting in front of a notebook this morning (damn thing!) and have seven windows open. I'm switching between four of five of them quite frequently and need the other two occasionally.

    The thing that makes a machine valuable to business is not only the quality of each individual app, but the ability to stitch them together and yield increased productivity. I think this has been proved out by the PC versus Apple wars of the 80's. The PC won. Not because it was easier to use (it wasn't). Not because it had higher quality apps (it didn't). The PC won because of Windows. The ability to have multiple portals open on various data and documents. The ability to share that data between open windows. That was the stake in the heart of Apple's bid for the business community. At that point Apple went to the only place they had left... children in school. With a few noted exceptions (mostly art/creative community) they stayed there until the iPod, commanding less than 5% of market share for nearly two decades.
    04-12-2012 08:09 AM
  24. Johnly's Avatar
    Talking about how single apps compare to each other completely misses the point about a tablet's applicability to enterprise, IMHO. And it just winds people around an axle.

    For people saying "one app is all people need to do business", I'd like know if they only use one window at a time on a Windows machine. I'm sitting in front of a notebook this morning (damn thing!) and have seven windows open. I'm switching between four of five of them quite frequently and need the other two occasionally.

    The thing that makes a machine valuable to business is not only the quality of each individual app, but the ability to stitch them together and yield increased productivity. I think this has been proved out by the PC versus Apple wars of the 80's. The PC won. Not because it was easier to use (it wasn't). Not because it had higher quality apps (it didn't). The PC won because of Windows. The ability to have multiple portals open on various data and documents. The ability to share that data between open windows. That was the stake in the heart of Apple's bid for the business community. At that point Apple went to the only place they had left... children in school. With a few noted exceptions (mostly art/creative community) they stayed there until the iPod, commanding less than 5% of market share for nearly two decades.
    You make your points, and that is appreciated...
    04-12-2012 09:19 AM
  25. Johnly's Avatar
    I would rather tie my presentation up in one swift show rather than jump through several open "windows" to get all info out there. Can ICS pump that info on apple displays?
    04-12-2012 09:21 AM
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