08-18-2011 01:08 PM
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  1. shrugger's Avatar
    That's completely a matter of opinion.

    Moving on... Assuming the GS2 is 4G, that's my next phone, regardless of the Droid HD's existence.
    So, what if it comes out as a pentile- which it is seeming like it might now?
    08-18-2011 07:48 AM
  2. Asterdroid's Avatar
    We're talking about two completely different things here. Samoled HD and Samoled + are not the same thing.

    If this phone releases with an HD screen, it's irrelevant whether or not it's pentile. At HD pixel density, you won't be able to tell the difference without a microscope.
    08-18-2011 08:03 AM
  3. DolfanCole's Avatar
    As Asterdroid states, please note again that the SAMOLED+ displays on the current GSII models are NOT pentile. The SAMOLED HD are said to be pentile (like the SAMOLED), athough they are at a higher resolution. I would doubt though that a device that is soon to be released in the US will have a SAMOLED HD display. My bet is that if we're looking at a GSII release in the US in the next month or two, it'll have SAMOLED+ and not SAMOLED HD.

    Also note that the pentile on the AMOLED screens are quite different than that used by Motorola. My wife's Fascinate has the SAMOLED with pentile and I don't see pixelation like I do with the pentile displays on the D3 and DX2 which are even at a higher resolution. My biggest gripe with the Fascinate's display is the greenish hue that it has when looking off-angle at the display (looking directly at it seems to make the hue much less apparent).
    08-18-2011 08:16 AM
  4. shrugger's Avatar
    We're talking about two completely different things here. Samoled HD and Samoled + are not the same thing.

    If this phone releases with an HD screen, it's irrelevant whether or not it's pentile. At HD pixel density, you won't be able to tell the difference without a microscope.
    No, we're not talking about two different things. IRL Panda pointed out that the Verizon S2 may well have a pentile screen, and you told him that was false. We're talking about if the S2 will be pentile.

    And, if the Verizon S2 variant is similar to the Celox (which is one of the large camps of rumors), it will very likely have a pentile screen.

    Yes, the HD will have a higher resolution. Maybe that will fix all issues, but that is also pretty much what people said about qHD screens before they released as well. We shall see...

    Point is- all the people slamming pentile on phones they haven't seen yet might want to take a breather from putting down other unreleased phones until you actually know for sure what is going into the one you are cheerleading for.
    08-18-2011 08:24 AM
  5. Friend-O's Avatar
    So, what if it comes out as a pentile- which it is seeming like it might now?
    Then I'd hit up my local VZW store, check it out for myself, and make an educated judgement as to whether their new display bothers me as much as the one on the DX2 does. If it does, then it's a no-go for me.
    shrugger likes this.
    08-18-2011 08:39 AM
  6. Asterdroid's Avatar
    Which is pretty much what people said about qHD screens before they released as well. We shall see...
    We shall see indeed. The difference in pixel density between a 800x480 screen and 960x540 screen vs. a 960x540 screen and a 1280x720 screen is huge. Here's some math for you.

    These percentage increases assume that the WVGA screen is 4", the qHD is 4.3", and the HD is 4.5". This also assume that all the displays are pentile, so that's not included in the calculations as it is a constant.


    (960*540)/4.3 = 120,558
    (800*480)/4 = 96,000

    120,558/96,000 = 1.2558

    125.58% increase in pixel density from WVGA to qHD.

    (1280*720)/4.5 = 204,800
    (960*540)/4.3 = 120,558

    204,800/120,558 = 1.6988

    169.88% increase in pixel density from qHD to HD.

    The math speaks for itself.

    Now just for ****s and giggles, let's compare a pentile HD screen to a non-pentile qHD

    (1280*720)/4.5 = 204,800
    204,800*.75(pentile) = 153,600
    (960*540)/4.3 = 120,558

    153,600/120,558 = 1.2741

    127.41% increase in pixel density from a NON-PENTILE qHD to a PENTILE HD.

    The math speaks for itself.
    Issemann and milkshed27 like this.
    08-18-2011 09:05 AM
  7. Asterdroid's Avatar
    Point is- all the people slamming pentile on phones they haven't seen yet might want to take a breather from putting down other unreleased phones until you actually know for sure what is going into the one you are cheerleading for.
    So you agree with me then. Sweet.
    08-18-2011 09:07 AM
  8. Asterdroid's Avatar
    No, we're not talking about two different things. IRL Panda pointed out that the Verizon S2 may well have a pentile screen, and you told him that was false. We're talking about if the S2 will be pentile.

    And, if the Verizon S2 variant is similar to the Celox (which is one of the large camps of rumors), it will very likely have a pentile screen.

    Yes, the HD will have a higher resolution. Maybe that will fix all issues, but that is also pretty much what people said about qHD screens before they released as well. We shall see...

    Point is- all the people slamming pentile on phones they haven't seen yet might want to take a breather from putting down other unreleased phones until you actually know for sure what is going into the one you are cheerleading for.
    Sorry I should have been more clear.

    I am not in the camp that believes the Celox will be the SGS2, and I think it's far from accurate to say that the Verizon SGS2 will "probably" have a pentile screen.

    Now, that said, if it does indeed have one of the new HD pentile samoled screens, it won't have the same issues people complain about with the qHD pentile, as the pixel density increase is huge, as demonstrated by my math above.

    I can tell you're a Bionic fan and are sick of the pentile debate. Just fyi, I'm not a pentile hater. I actually like the amoled pentile display on my Incredible.

    Hopefully that clears the air
    08-18-2011 09:18 AM
  9. DolfanCole's Avatar
    Sorry I should have been more clear.

    I am not in the camp that believes the Celox will be the SGS2, and I think it's far from accurate to say that the Verizon SGS2 will "probably" have a pentile screen.

    Now, that said, if it does indeed have one of the new HD pentile samoled screens, it won't have the same issues people complain about with the qHD pentile, as the pixel density increase is huge, as demonstrated by my math above.

    I can tell you're a Bionic fan and are sick of the pentile debate. Just fyi, I'm not a pentile hater. I actually like the amoled pentile display on my Incredible.

    Hopefully that clears the air
    Agree. Also, the SAMOLED pentile displays are much better IMO than the LCD pentile displays that Moto uses.
    08-18-2011 09:22 AM
  10. shrugger's Avatar
    We shall see indeed. The difference in pixel density between a 800x480 screen and 960x540 screen vs. a 960x540 screen and a 1280x720 screen is huge. Here's some math for you.

    These percentage increases assume that the WVGA screen is 4", the qHD is 4.3", and the HD is 4.5". This also assume that all the displays are pentile, so that's not included in the calculations as it is a constant.


    (960*540)/4.3 = 120,558
    (800*480)/4 = 96,000

    120,558/96,000 = 1.2558

    125.58% increase in pixel density from WVGA to qHD.

    (1280*720)/4.5 = 204,800
    (960*540)/4.3 = 120,558

    204,800/120,558 = 1.6988

    169.88% increase in pixel density from qHD to HD.

    The math speaks for itself.

    Now just for ****s and giggles, let's compare a pentile HD screen to a non-pentile qHD

    (1280*720)/4.5 = 204,800
    204,800*.75(pentile) = 153,600
    (960*540)/4.3 = 120,558

    153,600/120,558 = 1.2741

    127.41% increase in pixel density from a NON-PENTILE qHD to a PENTILE HD.

    The math speaks for itself.
    I've learned that the normal way to assess PPI is to determine the diagonal resolution (square root of the sum of the squares of the vertical and horizontal pixels), then divide that by the diagonal size.

    The PPI of a 720p 4.5" screen is 326.

    The PPI of a qHD 4.3" screen is 250.

    Yes, that's a significant difference.

    However, 300 ppi is considered the point at which normal human vision cannot discern further increases in resolution (depending on vision and distance). So, anything beyond 300 ppi may not matter to the average user. And, going from 250 to 300 PPI isn't nearly as big of a jump in perceived quality as going from, say 150 to 200.

    Just doing the math doesn't guarantee anything, however. The math doesn't always "speak for itself." Different implementations produce different results.

    Swearing to buy a device before anyone has even laid a hand (or eye) strikes me as iFan-type behavior. Telling people they are crazy to buy a different phone that none of us has laid eye or hand on is equally silly.

    It's fine to talk about your expectations and beliefs, but another to say that they are generally applicable facts when they are not.

    No, I am not a Bionic fanboy. I plan to buy a device in the next month or so. I had originally expected that to be the Bionic, but am now leaning towards the S2. I won't decide for sure until I actually get to use the devices themselves, however (and, may end up with something else completely different, if something better comes along soon.

    Both will be quality devices, and both will meet most people's needs. But, preferences differ, and the tradeoffs I make may be different than the ones you make, but that doesn't mean I can call your phone "crap," or you mine.
    08-18-2011 10:54 AM
  11. Asterdroid's Avatar
    I've learned that the normal way to assess PPI is to determine the diagonal resolution (square root of the sum of the squares of the vertical and horizontal pixels), then divide that by the diagonal size.

    The PPI of a 720p 4.5" screen is 326.

    The PPI of a qHD 4.3" screen is 250.

    Yes, that's a significant difference.

    However, 300 ppi is considered the point at which normal human vision cannot discern further increases in resolution (depending on vision and distance). So, anything beyond 300 ppi may not matter to the average user. And, going from 250 to 300 PPI isn't nearly as big of a jump in perceived quality as going from, say 150 to 200.

    Just doing the math doesn't guarantee anything, however. The math doesn't always "speak for itself." Different implementations produce different results.

    Swearing to buy a device before anyone has even laid a hand (or eye) strikes me as iFan-type behavior. Telling people they are crazy to buy a different phone that none of us has laid eye or hand on is equally silly.

    It's fine to talk about your expectations and beliefs, but another to say that they are generally applicable facts when they are not.

    No, I am not a Bionic fanboy. I plan to buy a device in the next month or so. I had originally expected that to be the Bionic, but am now leaning towards the S2. I won't decide for sure until I actually get to use the devices themselves, however (and, may end up with something else completely different, if something better comes along soon.

    Both will be quality devices, and both will meet most people's needs. But, preferences differ, and the tradeoffs I make may be different than the ones you make, but that doesn't mean I can call your phone "crap," or you mine.
    Regardless of how you calculate it, the percentages and ratios are the same. And we'll just say it's "my opinion" that the difference between HD pentile and HD non-pentile will be irrelevant.

    As far as the facts go, the only fact is that every iteration of the SGS2 that's currently available is indeed non-pentile, and WVGA. I already clarified my comments in an earlier post.

    The math aside, I'm not really sure what you're getting at with the comments in the rest of your post. If they are directed at me, you may want to reread my posts and take a chill pill my friend. Nowhere did I say anything negative about any of the devices in question, nor have I stated that I am buying a specific device. It hasn't even been implied. If they aren't directed at me and are just general statements, disregard this paragraph
    08-18-2011 11:21 AM
  12. Asterdroid's Avatar
    On a side note, I feel like we'd be in agreement if we were having this discussion over a beer.
    08-18-2011 11:29 AM
  13. Friend-O's Avatar
    Asterdroid...did you just ask shrugger out on a date???
    08-18-2011 11:54 AM
  14. Asterdroid's Avatar
    Asterdroid...did you just ask shrugger out on a date???
    I said a beer, not an appletini!
    Friend-O likes this.
    08-18-2011 11:55 AM
  15. shrugger's Avatar
    I said a beer, not an appletini!
    Awww... don't crush my hopes!!!
    Friend-O likes this.
    08-18-2011 12:08 PM
  16. shrugger's Avatar
    The math aside, I'm not really sure what you're getting at with the comments in the rest of your post. If they are directed at me, you may want to reread my posts and take a chill pill my friend. Nowhere did I say anything negative about any of the devices in question, nor have I stated that I am buying a specific device. It hasn't even been implied. If they aren't directed at me and are just general statements, disregard this paragraph
    Sorry, I should have been clear that that wasn't directed at "you" personally, but in the generic sense.

    I'm just tired of some folks calling all these different phones crap compared to the ______, or people asserting things as fact that aren't really known yet.

    I go to these forums to learn new information, discuss the pros and cons of different technologies, etc. But, it seems like I'm wading through more and more people slamming one another over what are clearly opinions.
    DolfanCole and Asterdroid like this.
    08-18-2011 12:14 PM
  17. Asterdroid's Avatar
    Sorry, I should have been clear that that wasn't directed at "you" personally, but in the generic sense.

    I'm just tired of some folks calling all these different phones crap compared to the ______, or people asserting things as fact that aren't really known yet.

    I go to these forums to learn new information, discuss the pros and cons of different technologies, etc. But, it seems like I'm wading through more and more people slamming one another over what are clearly opinions.
    No worries man. It's all in good fun. I had a feeling that's what you meant, I just wanted to make sure. For the record, I agree with the statement 100%.

    When people start becoming champions for a specific device to the point where they're blind to other choices, they are no better than the iSheep/iLemmings that annoy me to no end. (For the record, I don't hate apple products, I own an iPad. I just hate blind Apple followers).
    08-18-2011 01:08 PM
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