12-29-2011 08:02 AM
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  1. mitra88's Avatar
    Haha, and I guess I ninja'd you with my edits. I saw that bit, and that makes me a little more relieved. Assuming there isn't just poor radio hardware preventing anyone from doing so, they could easily change the software to allow weaker 4G LTE signals to be accepted by the device before it automatically switches back to 3G. Other than the aforementioned battery life issue, I can't see why they would intend for the device to behave this way.

    I, for one, would love to see a connection option -- prefer battery life, the cutoff threshold is a higher dBm figure. Prefer 4G LTE, cutoff threshold is a lower (more negative, that is) dBm figure.

    edit: All-in-all, I'm really ridiculously happy that the Galaxy Nexus is reporting accurate LTE signal strength. If I understand everything correctly, this should enable Sensorly (and other applications) to begin mapping LTE signal strength, rather than just LTE coverage.
    If Brian's point is completely accurate that there really isn't signal strength difference, then I will be able to stay more hopeful about the upcoming update.
    12-19-2011 10:52 PM
  2. sc4fpse's Avatar
    Well here is the deal if dbm is anything to go bye than yes lte signal on nexus is around 10-15 less than razr. 3g signal however is much closer. I have not had any drop backs to 3g yet from 4g. I am in a good coverage area.
    I am not complaining but I will take any improvement as a plus.
    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    Go ahead and read the Anandtech article one more time. With the RAZR on LTE, the dBm figure in About > Status > Signal Strength is NOT LTE, rather, it's 1xRTT. On the Galaxy Nexus, this is not the case. The figure there is LTE. That's why it's significantly less than the RAZR or other devices. The Nexus is the first phone on which Verizon isn't trying to pull a fast one on us.

    In reality, the LTE signal strength on the RAZR and the Nexus are so close that any difference is negligible.


    Now, does anyone understand where Brian's conclusion that LTE signal strength reporting is correct on not only the Galaxy Nexus but Android 4.0 in general came from? I see plenty of evidence supporting the Nexus claim, and I agree with him entirely there, but I'm a bit perplexed as to where the Android 4.0 mention came from and how he concludes it's Android 4.0 that "fixes" this.
    MazoMark likes this.
    12-19-2011 10:54 PM
  3. Droid800's Avatar
    Just a clarification; on Verizon voice calls (as well as texts) use 1x and are NOT dependent on 3G or LTE. The fact a phone loses the basic signal for voice calls speaks to a greater signal issue with the phone, especially when most other phones do not experience the same issue when used in the same areas. The million dollar question is can it be fixed with software or is it a hardware issue?
    I meant to edit that part. Yes, calls are over CDMA. But it will be fixed with the newer radios.
    12-19-2011 10:59 PM
  4. burwil's Avatar
    Glad those guys are so smart at Anandtech. Maybe they can explain to me why my time without a signal was 28% on the Gnex and 3% on the DroidX. Each sitting a foot or so from each other. CDMA only.
    12-19-2011 11:00 PM
  5. Droid800's Avatar
    Go ahead and read the Anandtech article one more time. With the RAZR on LTE, the dBm figure in About > Status > Signal Strength is NOT LTE, rather, it's 1xRTT. On the Galaxy Nexus, this is not the case. The figure there is LTE. That's why it's significantly less than the RAZR or other devices. The Nexus is the first phone on which Verizon isn't trying to pull a fast one on us.

    In reality, the LTE signal strength on the RAZR and the Nexus are so close that any difference is negligible.


    Now, does anyone understand where Brian's conclusion that LTE signal strength reporting is correct on not only the Galaxy Nexus but Android 4.0 in general came from? I see plenty of evidence supporting the Nexus claim, and I agree with him entirely there, but I'm a bit perplexed as to where the Android 4.0 mention came from and how he concludes it's Android 4.0 that "fixes" this.
    Android couldn't process the difference (or display it properly) prior to 4.0. It isn't a samsung or Verizon add-on for 4.0, but rather a change in function itself with the OS. (Google didn't hasn't talked much about it yet, because the only 'official' unveiling for 4.0 and the GN they had was for the HSPA+ version)
    12-19-2011 11:03 PM
  6. Droid800's Avatar
    Glad those guys are so smart at Anandtech. Maybe they can explain to me why my time without a signal was 28% on the Gnex and 3% on the DroidX. Each sitting a foot or so from each other. CDMA only.
    Don't post here if you're not going to bother reading the damn article. He said specifically that he was discussing LTE only.
    LangHoo likes this.
    12-19-2011 11:04 PM
  7. mitra88's Avatar
    Glad those guys are so smart at Anandtech. Maybe they can explain to me why my time without a signal was 28% on the Gnex and 3% on the DroidX. Each sitting a foot or so from each other. CDMA only.
    Provided that the article from Anandtech is correct about the signal strength displaying method difference, the real reason of many users' complaints about losing signals in REAL LIFE may have something to do with signal handsoff in GN's baseband, especially between CDMA and LTE.
    12-19-2011 11:04 PM
  8. bplewis24's Avatar
    Now, does anyone understand where Brian's conclusion that LTE signal strength reporting is correct on not only the Galaxy Nexus but Android 4.0 in general came from? I see plenty of evidence supporting the Nexus claim, and I agree with him entirely there, but I'm a bit perplexed as to where the Android 4.0 mention came from and how he concludes it's Android 4.0 that "fixes" this.
    Thinking of it logically, the only difference would have to be software related when you're talking about reading the signal and displaying the signal differences. So it's coming from the operating system, not the nexus hardware.

    Brandon
    PythonLaX likes this.
    12-19-2011 11:16 PM
  9. sc4fpse's Avatar
    I just didn't think it was a limitation before, rather, a decision that Verizon made in order to make their network look better than it really was. Guess that wasn't exactly correct?
    12-20-2011 03:57 AM
  10. Iceman0803's Avatar
    I believe the patch will fix the stability of the 4G jumping around. When I spoke to the Verizon rep, she said that is what most of the calls (27) at the time were about.

    So far I'm happy with the phone, just want my case!
    Maybe... This Is Why Your Verizon Galaxy Nexus (Or Other 4G LTE VZW Phone) Is Losing Its Data Connection
    12-20-2011 04:02 AM
  11. nkd's Avatar
    Lol sitting at home right now I lost signal completely three times for about 2 mins. The smart people at anandtech can come and tell me why it never happened with razr. I am in the heart of 4g coverage. Never ever dropped signal at my house with razr. I am keeping this phone, but signal problems are real. Anandtech can do their investigation, they are more than welcome to come to my house and witness it. I Lost signal again as I was typing this. This Happened for the first time today.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    12-20-2011 04:26 AM
  12. ace0187420's Avatar
    Yeah the signal issues are legit for sure
    12-20-2011 04:39 AM
  13. nkd's Avatar
    They are. I am at time without signal 5%. It was 0 with the razr. It recently started happening to me. So seems to happening at random. If Verizon listens to anandtech nothing would get fixed lol.
    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    12-20-2011 04:43 AM
  14. ace0187420's Avatar
    Yeah mine is always 1 bar or 2 at most and the dbm is always over 100 and i lose signal frequently.
    12-20-2011 04:46 AM
  15. ace0187420's Avatar
    They are. I am at time without signal 5%. It was 0 with the razr. It recently started happening to me. So seems to happening at random. If Verizon listens to anandtech nothing would get fixed lol.
    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


    The razr was that much better for you?
    12-20-2011 04:48 AM
  16. nkd's Avatar
    The razr was that much better for you?
    Well I live in a very good service area. Razr had a very good signal. Nexus is pretty decent but I have lost signal few times on 4g today but never happened with the razr. I am in very good 4g and 3g area. Never had any time without signal on razr. I love the nexus and most likely will keep it and I can live with few 4g drops for now. Hopefully they juice up the antenna a little in the next update.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    12-20-2011 05:19 AM
  17. LangHoo's Avatar
    Obviously some people don't like to read more than a tweet. The Anandtech article did not say there is no issue. There appears to be no signal strength issue when compare to other LTE phones. In fact the nexus hardware (CMC221 chip) that is the a step up from other LTE phones. (The author also posts several responses in the comments section of that article to the signal "issue" claims).

    One point the article makes is that people can't cite the # of bars or signal strength readings as proof of a weak LTE signal (since really only the Galaxy Nexus signal reading is truly LTE and not EVDO). The article does state there may be some connection stability problems and issues with the way the Nexus switches between EVDO & LTE. There are some radio updated coming in 4.0.3 that may help address this issue.

    Anandtech mentions connection stability and Verizon said that there are some LTE issues and they are working on a solution. So either trust that and wait for the fix or decide you don't want to risk it and return the phone move on. Or I guess you could keep posting bogus evidence about number of bars and signal strength readings on your wife's XYZ phone and the 8 other phones you tested in the Verizon store.
    12-20-2011 05:42 AM
  18. sc4fpse's Avatar
    Obviously some people don't like to read more than a tweet. The Anandtech article did not say there is no issue.
    Verizon confirming though a tweet that there’s some sort of signal issue affecting the Galaxy Nexus confuses me, since from my perspective there isn’t any issue at all.
    Emphasis mine.

    You've argued the same point a few times now. I don't think anyone here is challenging you on that. What your point/Anandtech's point doesn't explain is why the Galaxy Nexus is having trouble receiving any signal (read: 1X voice) at all in many locations where other devices (LTE and 3G only) have had no problem at all. And the whole "time without signal" thing is pretty perplexing too, and sure doesn't seem to have anything to do with the number of signal strength bars indicated on any device. Again, I hope this isn't just the result of poor Samsung [hardware] radios.
    12-20-2011 06:03 AM
  19. VideoEngineerAJS's Avatar
    Read this excerpt from Brian's article:



    Click to view quoted image


    In other words, when the Thunderbolt is in LTE mode, it's STILL displaying it's 3G connection. Notice that the Galaxy Nexus' 3G connection is the exact same as your Thunderbolt's "LTE" signal? Yes, your Thunderbolt goes down to -82 in 3G mode, but that's not a very high variance. It's possible if you tested it 30 seconds later it would have been at -90 again.

    Everybody in every one of these signal threads needs to read the full article. In it, you can see that Brian actually has to run a logcat to get true LTE signal strength readings on the Bionic because it only displays 3G signal strength under "About Phone." For the Charge, he has to hack into a special menu in order to reveal it.

    Click to view quoted image


    Brandon
    Again I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but my difference is physically noticeable. As in I ALWAYS had 4G in my house with my Thunderbolt and now I NEVER have 4G in my house with my Galaxy Nexus.

    Now I am patient and I can wait for updates because I use wifi at home anyway, but waiting for the hand off is a bit annoying because I never had to worry about it before.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
    12-20-2011 06:18 AM
  20. dman2275's Avatar
    I feel a link to my thread from early December is relevant to this.

    http://forums.androidcentral.com/ver...-strength.html

    It is VERY good to see that it looks like LTE signal is properly being mapped now. Very, VERY good for applications that rely on the LTE signal strength figure, such as Sensorly. The signal strength is a bittersweet reality, of course. Now we get to see how terrible LTE coverage really is in a lot of areas. Verizon has gotten away with this for so long because of the way LTE is designed -- it performs better even in fringe areas than 3G, so a lot of times people don't realize how close to no LTE coverage they really are, whereas on 3G it was definitely noticeable. Now, people will be able to see how well Verizon has really covered an area with LTE.

    This does seem to go along with my observations this weekend. I traveled all over the state of Michigan. I saw 4 bars of signal strength for a total of maybe 10 minutes during multiple hours of interstate highway and inner-city travel. I was absolutely flabbergasted, and figured that was just the result of some software bug in the Galaxy Nexus which resulted in a 20 dBm difference in signal strength. But this all makes sense now. There are estimates that Verizon puts LTE on every 2nd or 3rd tower in a lot of areas. LTE signal will travel a little further under the same conditions as 3G (at least on VZW's frequencies for the two networks), so they can get away with this for the most part. This is how Verizon has been able to expand it's LTE network so fast -- they cover only the most crucial towers as their programs instruct them to, and then they move on to the next locale, and only come back when they decide they need to (or when enough people complain about crappy coverage).

    The author of that article says that it is likely that Google/Verizon will "remedy" this problem with a placebo -- perhaps by reverting to the old 1X display, or by artificially increasing the number of signal strength bars displayed, ala the iPhone awhile back. This would be unfortunate, as the author says. I only hope that this will convince Verizon to maybe take a step back and think about what they're doing in terms of their LTE rollout. But I'm realistic, and realize that's a freaking pipe dream at best.


    Now, as for my complaint about the article: The author seems to dismiss the idea that there is an actual signal strength problem with the Galaxy Nexus. While many of the "problems" that people seem to be having are likely related to this display of LTE signal strength instead of 1X as on previous LTE devices, there is still a serious problem. Everyone I've talked to is connecting to 4G in fewer places than with their previous devices. In the office I work at, with my Thunderbolt there was one single interior room where I would drop to 3G. Now, there are multiple interior rooms and hallways in which I revert to 3G. I can only hope that Samsung's radios aren't that bad and that there is a software issue that can be remedied in a future update.


    tl;dr: FINALLY LTE devices are displaying LTE signal instead of 1X. Article brings up good points, but author is mistaken in claiming that there isn't an actual problem with signal on the gNex.
    Excellent post! The article is a great read and I agree with the reliability of Anandtech's reviews.

    But.....I also agree with what you are saying. There is definitely a signal strength issue with the SGN. I wrote several posts about my observations playing with the phone and my Charge side by side in the Verizon store. There was no 4G in that particular store so it was comparing 3G to 3G (apples to apples). I also checked the signal strength (dBm) on other phones next to it and the SGN showed a higher number than every other phone by a 10 to 20 difference.

    I personally think it can be fixed with a software change in the radio. My Charge was much better (night and day) when I flashed the GB update to my phone. It made a world of difference and I am hoping they can do the same for the SGN.

    I love everything about the SGN but signal strength and battery life are the two most important things for me. I am in an area when I am on the move, my phone switches between 4G and 3G constantly so I need to make sure I have a signal. Until the new patch comes out, I am patiently waiting on the sideline with my Charge.

    Edit: I forgot to mention, if I had bought the phone I would definitely wait until the end of the holiday return date to return the phone. Enjoy that ICS !!!
    MazoMark likes this.
    12-20-2011 06:59 AM
  21. burwil's Avatar
    I live in a 4g extended area but that signal is non existant on my Gnex and my 3g signal is so bad I have lost connection on that to the tune of 28% just last nite. If the focus with Anandtech is 4g LTE then its pretty irrelevant to me and many others who are struggling to get any signal, period. And to have a reasonable battery life. More discussions with Verizon tech people today.....we'll see what the next move would be. Would hate to lose the phone. I think there is only a small chance it's defective. My droid og and X are in the high 80's to mid 90s dbm while the Nexus in high 90s and above. Crossing my fingers on a software fix. Or may I just need to switch carriers who do better in my area.
    12-20-2011 07:14 AM
  22. PowerThroughLove's Avatar
    People complaining about having 3G when they used to have 4G - this is likely just due to the cutoff limit on 4G for each phone. The Moto's may very well be hanging on to that LTE signal until it reaches below a threshold (say 110dbm) while the Nexus is just switching over at a more conservative number (say 100dbm). Thats a software decision, and can be tweaked to Verizon's and Samsung's content.

    People complaining about dropping calls when they did not before - thats a more concerning issue, and something that may not have as easy a fix. Will have to see.
    Tom in Bristol likes this.
    12-20-2011 07:51 AM
  23. VideoEngineerAJS's Avatar
    People complaining about having 3G when they used to have 4G - this is likely just due to the cutoff limit on 4G for each phone. The Moto's may very well be hanging on to that LTE signal until it reaches below a threshold (say 110dbm) while the Nexus is just switching over at a more conservative number (say 100dbm). Thats a software decision, and can be tweaked to Verizon's and Samsung's content.

    People complaining about dropping calls when they did not before - thats a more concerning issue, and something that may not have as easy a fix. Will have to see.
    I hope they do tweak it because that's a little disheartening if that's the case. I mean I never use 4G at home, it's just frustrating that I lose it. I mean my Thunderbolt never lost it and I actually did a side by side with my Galaxy Nexus and my wife's Revolution and in actuality the signals were pretty close (the Nexus was 3 to 5 dbm higher), but the Revolution stayed on 4G and mine was on 3G. Again I know it's not a huge deal, but still just annoying.
    12-20-2011 07:58 AM
  24. TerryMasters's Avatar
    Even though this doesn't sound like particularly bad news, it's kind of hard for me to take anything Anandtech says seriously after they deliberately forged their benchmarks to make the iPhone 4S look superior to the Galaxy SII.
    12-20-2011 07:58 AM
  25. JoeUserTX's Avatar
    Many thanks to the OP for posting the article, it cleared up a lot of misconceptions by me, regarding the reporting of the Nexus' signal strength. It's nice to hear that the Nexus is displaying a true LTE signal strength, and that I can discount the comparisons of signal strength between other LTE-enabled phones (since the other models don't report the same criteria; apples and oranges bit).

    Sounds like Samsung and/or Verizon can tweak the handoff better between 3G and 4G, so that those that hit weaker coverage can retain LTE with a lower threshold. I'm wondering if the handoff is also causing other issues (such as app crashes, reboots, and/or drop of service altogether).

    I, myself, have not experienced the above issues, and the transition between 3G and 4G is event-free. With luck, perhaps the 4.0.3 update will bring more stability and robustness to connectivity.
    12-20-2011 08:37 AM
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