12-29-2011 08:02 AM
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  1. Gratificulous's Avatar
    Excellent find. This is very informative and clears up some misconceptions.
    12-20-2011 08:49 AM
  2. MazoMark's Avatar
    I, for one, would love to see a connection option -- prefer battery life, the cutoff threshold is a higher dBm figure. Prefer 4G LTE, cutoff threshold is a lower (more negative, that is) dBm figure.

    coverage.
    I agree a connection option would be a great tool. I'm sure software was written to maximize battery, but there are situations where you'll sacrifice battery to get the added speed of even a weak 4G signal. Would be nice if user would have option to control this!
    12-20-2011 08:52 AM
  3. alcor34's Avatar
    Excerpt: "Iíve been running battery life tests on our LTE Galaxy Nexus review unit since release day (a process that takes a considerable amount of time and results in our reviews posting a while behind everyone elseís), but have had some time to run tests and gauge subjective performance. I found that LTE connectivity and performance felt above average, subjectively, and noted that in a tweet. After complaints started to surface, I spent a considerable amount of time reading the threads on XDA and other places around the web trying to discern what the complaints are about. Iíve seen a couple of big misconceptions that I think really get to the heart of the matter."

    Full Article: Investigating the Galaxy Nexus LTE Signal Issue
    I thought the issue was just getting on the tower not the strength after being on it. So as informative as that article may be. Its wrong to make some of those statements when they have not grasped the issue. That's what vzw is referring to.
    burwil likes this.
    12-20-2011 09:16 AM
  4. bplewis24's Avatar
    Again I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but my difference is physically noticeable. As in I ALWAYS had 4G in my house with my Thunderbolt and now I NEVER have 4G in my house with my Galaxy Nexus.

    Now I am patient and I can wait for updates because I use wifi at home anyway, but waiting for the hand off is a bit annoying because I never had to worry about it before.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus
    Emphasis mine.

    You've argued the same point a few times now. I don't think anyone here is challenging you on that. What your point/Anandtech's point doesn't explain is why the Galaxy Nexus is having trouble receiving any signal (read: 1X voice) at all in many locations where other devices (LTE and 3G only) have had no problem at all.
    Well, I think we all need to take a step back and remember that there could STILL be defective phones out there, and there could still be some type of attenuation issue. What Anandtech is pointing out is that there are no signal display issues, and that other phones under similar conditions have similar signal strength levels. Nothing more, nothing less. He makes sure to not make any claims about 3G or 1x and clarifies this in the comments.

    I happen to believe there may be an attenuation problem with the phone, as if I try and apply the "death grip" to the phone, I can get it to degrade the signal pretty severely. I'm pretty sure they will cover as much of this issue as anybody else has combined in their full review.

    And I think the claim that they are biased because they "fudged" numbers to make the iPhone4s look great is preposterous. They do have a preference for Apple hardware at Anandtech, but their numbers are purely objective.

    Brandon
    MazoMark likes this.
    12-20-2011 09:45 AM
  5. sc4fpse's Avatar
    Well, I think we all need to take a step back and remember that there could STILL be defective phones out there, and there could still be some type of attenuation issue. What Anandtech is pointing out is that there are no signal display issues, and that other phones under similar conditions have similar signal strength levels. Nothing more, nothing less. He makes sure to not make any claims about 3G or 1x and clarifies this in the comments.
    Yeah, I should have worded my initial reply a little bit better. He didn't say anything about non-signal strength issues, but the way he worded it, it came across as if he believed that there was absolutely no real problem with the Nexus, and that the only issue people were talking about was the alleged signal strength issue, which was really just LTE signal strength being displayed properly. Just a sentence or two noting that there may be (or rather, are) other legitimate signal issues would have been helpful in the article.

    I happen to believe there may be an attenuation problem with the phone, as if I try and apply the "death grip" to the phone, I can get it to degrade the signal pretty severely. I'm pretty sure they will cover as much of this issue as anybody else has combined in their full review.
    Just curious -- are you left handed? The CDMA radio is in the bottom left corner of the device (when you're looking at the screen), and the LTE radio is in the upper left corner. Wifi/Bluetooth is center right. All of this according to FCC docs. The Nexus is a pretty big phone. While you might be able to cover the CDMA radio during normal use, unless you're a freak, your hands won't come anywhere near that LTE radio.
    12-20-2011 11:20 AM
  6. MazoMark's Avatar
    While you might be able to cover the CDMA radio during normal use, unless you're a freak, your hands won't come anywhere near that LTE radio.
    Who are you calling a freak?

    JoeUserTX likes this.
    12-20-2011 11:46 AM
  7. JoeUserTX's Avatar
    Who are you calling a freak?
    LOL, just don't face-palm yourself...
    12-20-2011 11:57 AM
  8. Ken7's Avatar
    Hopefully there is something else in the software than can be altered to alleviate this problem, and hopefully it's not just a terrible Samsung [hardware] radio.
    And that's been precisely what I've been worried about from day 1. Having had experience with miserable Samsung radios, I was hoping the Nexus would be different. Although it's better than my Charge was, it's not as good at holding 4G as the Rezound was.

    I personally give it no better than a 50-50 chance this will be resolved via software. If it's not, Nexus owners with this issue are screwed...big time.
    12-20-2011 01:13 PM
  9. Ken7's Avatar
    Read the comments on the first page of the article. The author says that this isn't an issue, but rather how the radio itself is programmed. Basically, that the radio was specifically programmed to default to 3G at a certain signal level, which is, for whatever reason, lower than previous devices. But that in and of itself isn't a problem with the radio, or a problem with it staying connected. Its how the radio's software was written, and how Samsung/Verizon intended it.
    And it may have been programmed that way because the hardware is weaker and less sensitive. To me it's entirely logical that if a weaker radio was installed in the Nexus, you'd want to program so it switches to the more common and more robust 3G signal quicker. I suspect that if you let it linger too long on a weak 4G signal, the radio hardware may just hang and the infamous (to owners of the Charge) "no data connectivity" will rear its ugly head.

    I think the only smart way to view this for people having real problems and assuming they get to the end of their return window, is that this is a hardware issue. I'd hate to be someone that has consistent data issues and has reached the end of his return window and keeps the phone under the hope/assumption that a software fix will solve this.

    I hope it will, but that's far far from a guarantee.
    12-20-2011 01:18 PM
  10. Ken7's Avatar
    Glad those guys are so smart at Anandtech. Maybe they can explain to me why my time without a signal was 28% on the Gnex and 3% on the DroidX. Each sitting a foot or so from each other. CDMA only.
    Although what you're saying is not the same, there are too many of these reports with 4G signal loss to assume the radio is not the issue. Nobody cares what the reported #s are when they KNOW they've had 4G reception in the same place with other phones and the Nexus reverts to 3G. With all due respect to Andandtech, there IS an issue with the phone's radio.
    12-20-2011 01:25 PM
  11. Ken7's Avatar
    Provided that the article from Anandtech is correct about the signal strength displaying method difference, the real reason of many users' complaints about losing signals in REAL LIFE may have something to do with signal handsoff in GN's baseband, especially between CDMA and LTE.
    This was the same issue with my Samsung Charge, apparently nothing has changed. Not good.
    12-20-2011 01:29 PM
  12. Ken7's Avatar
    Forget what Andantech said, this is PRECISELY what I've been saying all along. When you read this quote from the article "Verizon has specifically said it's investigating the issue on the Galaxy Nexus, but we wouldn't expect miracles given their track record on this debacle. My DROID Charge review unit had the problem. The ThunderBolt obviously had the problem. My DROID BIONIC has the problem (the new update did not fix it), and now the Galaxy Nexus is suffering from it as well."

    I had only a couple of posts ago mentioned the Charge and nothing was done with that (one of the reasons I ditched that POS). So now we confirm that there may well be no fix in the short term as Verizon continues to 'investigate" as they've been doing every since 4G launched.

    As I said before, anyone reaching their return window must operate under the assumption this will not be fixed...certainly not in the short term. Wasn't fixed in the Charge, wasn't fixed in the Bionic, wasn't fixed in the TBolt...see a trend here? Still interesting to me that the Rezound seems to be largely free of this issue. I guess that's a phone that frequently tries to 'authenticate' with the network.

    I will say this about the Nexus and its radio, the period of 'no data' is far less than what I experienced with the Charge.
    12-20-2011 01:38 PM
  13. racedog's Avatar
    The radio problem is not just limited to the LTE radio. I use the phone regularly from our RV where I work occasionally and we use as an addition to our house. I have an Asus Transformer in there and my wife will have her Dinc and I also have my old Tbolt. ALL of those devices are able to pick up the wifi from the house and run consistently. The signal is not strong but those three units are able to get signal and keep it. The GN is only able to get signal about half of the time, and saying half the time may be being generous. In the RV the GN shows a signal of -130dbm for the cdma radio but the dinc and tbolt are running at about -90dbm.

    The GN shows some very definite radio issues and I'm hoping that they can be resolved soon because the thought of having to pick a Razr or Rezound is not a thrilling option for me. I really do love the GN screen and ICS but the before anything else the radios have to be usable. If I lived in a strong signal area I would probably be joining everyone else about loving the Nexus but the radio issue is a huge one for me.
    12-20-2011 01:46 PM
  14. Ken7's Avatar
    People complaining about having 3G when they used to have 4G - this is likely just due to the cutoff limit on 4G for each phone. The Moto's may very well be hanging on to that LTE signal until it reaches below a threshold (say 110dbm) while the Nexus is just switching over at a more conservative number (say 100dbm). Thats a software decision, and can be tweaked to Verizon's and Samsung's content.

    People complaining about dropping calls when they did not before - thats a more concerning issue, and something that may not have as easy a fix. Will have to see.
    Only that's not the case. I see 4G on the Nexus with a reading of -116dbm! So I don't know how much lower than they can write the software for the switchover point. I'm sure at these very low #s, there eventually is a S/N issue that makes the signal very unreliable. For all we know the phone is already programmed to switch at the lowest practical # for the included hardware.
    12-20-2011 01:48 PM
  15. PowerThroughLove's Avatar
    Although what you're saying is not the same, there are too many of these reports with 4G signal loss to assume the radio is not the issue. Nobody cares what the reported #s are when they KNOW they've had 4G reception in the same place with other phones and the Nexus reverts to 3G. With all due respect to Andandtech, there IS an issue with the phone's radio.
    As has already been discussed in this very same thread, the LTE signal is equal across different phones. The only difference is the strength the switch over occurs at.
    12-20-2011 01:49 PM
  16. PowerThroughLove's Avatar
    Only that's not the case. I see 4G on the Nexus with a reading of -116dbm! So I don't know how much lower than they can write the software for the switchover point. I'm sure at these very low #s, there eventually is a S/N issue that makes the signal very unreliable. For all we know the phone is already programmed to switch at the lowest practical # for the included hardware.
    What is the 3G signal in that area? Id assume the cutoff is a ratio, not a hard number.
    12-20-2011 01:50 PM
  17. Ken7's Avatar
    As has already been discussed in this very same thread, the LTE signal is equal across different phones. The only difference is the strength the switch over occurs at.
    I disagree. We do not know that for sure. I'm sure there are a host of other possible explanations. I don't think the only explanation is the switchover point. As I've said, I get a reading of -116dbm and still have 4G. How much lower can they switch...really?
    12-20-2011 01:59 PM
  18. Ken7's Avatar
    What is the 3G signal in that area? Id assume the cutoff is a ratio, not a hard number.
    That's exactly my point, who knows. You and I are not radio engineers and we truly have no clue about this stuff. But I do know as you continue to lower a signal's strength, your S/N ratio drops too. At some point there is simply too much 'garbage' in the signal to be useful. My fear is that the Nexus is already programmed to switch at a very low signal level and further 'enhancements' to that switchover point may not be possible.
    12-20-2011 02:01 PM
  19. Kunji's Avatar
    As has already been discussed in this very same thread, the LTE signal is equal across different phones. The only difference is the strength the switch over occurs at.
    strength of receiver i assume you mean and the software number at which to do so. i believe what many here are saying are that they are dissatisfied with the receiver in the phone irregardless of the software cutoff to switch number. how does one explain the disparity in throughput when two different 4g phones are side by side whether wifi or 4g? 7<13 down is quite a difference but one i can live with but would rather not.
    12-20-2011 02:01 PM
  20. bplewis24's Avatar
    Just curious -- are you left handed? The CDMA radio is in the bottom left corner of the device (when you're looking at the screen), and the LTE radio is in the upper left corner. Wifi/Bluetooth is center right. All of this according to FCC docs. The Nexus is a pretty big phone. While you might be able to cover the CDMA radio during normal use, unless you're a freak, your hands won't come anywhere near that LTE radio.
    Actually, it isn't the 4G radio I was getting signal degradation with. It was last night while holding the phone in my left hand (right handed) that I was able to go from 3 wifi bars to 1 wifi bar.

    I did some 4G testing on the way to work this morning. I never leave the 4G radio on under normal conditions. I typically only turn on 4G when I want to stream video or browse the web. But today I left it on during my commute to work and during my first hour at work. The result was the following:

    25 minute commute:
    55% of time 3 bars.
    25% of time 2 bars.
    15% of time 4 bars.
    5% of time 1 bar.

    Those are all rough numbers from just checking down at the phone every 60 seconds or so. I also ran some speed tests (yes, I was breaking the law):



    There is also one that I didn't include where I pulled down a whopping 29Mbps on 4 bars. I also want to stress that I never once lost connection. Then I came indoors and spent a couple hours periodically checking to see how it was connected, and it was on 4G all the time. So I took it to the bathroom near the very middle of the building to check coverage there:



    So, for me, I haven't had much trouble at all today. I may do some testing at home, because that appears to be the only place where my phone has a very weak 4G signal, at least over the past couple of days.

    Brandon
    12-20-2011 04:07 PM
  21. Tom in Bristol's Avatar
    Sooo...yesterday we learn from Anandtech that the Gnex is reporting LTE signal correctly and no others do it right, and today...VZW tells ComputerWorld that they "will adjust the signal strength indicator to more closely match other Verizon Wireless devices."

    Verizon confirms software update coming to Galaxy Nexus - Computerworld

    WTF???
    12-21-2011 02:45 PM
  22. sc4fpse's Avatar
    Sooo...yesterday we learn from Anandtech that the Gnex is reporting LTE signal correctly and no others do it right, and today...VZW tells ComputerWorld that they "will adjust the signal strength indicator to more closely match other Verizon Wireless devices."

    Verizon confirms software update coming to Galaxy Nexus - Computerworld

    WTF???


    Seriously Verizon? Come on. There is a signal problem with this phone. It is NOT related to the number of bars displayed or the fact that the Nexus correctly displays LTE signal strength and not 1xRTT signal strength. DON'T "FIX" WHAT ISN'T BROKEN.
    12-21-2011 04:11 PM
  23. oxymoron's Avatar
    Click to view quoted image


    Seriously Verizon? Come on. There is a signal problem with this phone. It is NOT related to the number of bars displayed or the fact that the Nexus correctly displays LTE signal strength and not 1xRTT signal strength. DON'T "FIX" WHAT ISN'T BROKEN.
    Yeah, I literally shook my head in disbelief when I read that. Placebo. They're going to give everyone a sugar pill.

    Awesome.

    *customized tapatalk signature*
    12-21-2011 04:14 PM
  24. Sippykipnip's Avatar
    By doing this, they just shot themselves in the foot. There will be an influx of calls to tech support claiming they have x amount of bars, and that they lost voice and data. Be prepared Verizon!
    12-21-2011 04:43 PM
  25. burwil's Avatar
    I just got back from a Verizon store. Set a demo Rezound and my Nexus to CDMA (I'm giving up on 4G for now in my so called 'extended' area) and the Rezound was up to -10 dBm better as the signal fluctuated. Right Samsung.....you can pretend there is nothing wrong....and while you're at it you can pretend I didn't return your phone for an HTC device.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
    cordoni likes this.
    12-21-2011 06:00 PM
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