Anandtech - "Investigating the Galaxy Nexus LTE Signal Issue"

[nkd]

The razr was that much better for you?

Well I live in a very good service area. Razr had a very good signal. Nexus is pretty decent but I have lost signal few times on 4g today but never happened with the razr. I am in very good 4g and 3g area. Never had any time without signal on razr. I love the nexus and most likely will keep it and I can live with few 4g drops for now. Hopefully they juice up the antenna a little in the next update.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[LangHoo]

Obviously some people don't like to read more than a tweet. The Anandtech article did not say there is no issue. There appears to be no signal strength issue when compare to other LTE phones. In fact the nexus hardware (CMC221 chip) that is the a step up from other LTE phones. (The author also posts several responses in the comments section of that article to the signal "issue" claims).

One point the article makes is that people can't cite the # of bars or signal strength readings as proof of a weak LTE signal (since really only the Galaxy Nexus signal reading is truly LTE and not EVDO). The article does state there may be some connection stability problems and issues with the way the Nexus switches between EVDO & LTE. There are some radio updated coming in 4.0.3 that may help address this issue.

Anandtech mentions connection stability and Verizon said that there are some LTE issues and they are working on a solution. So either trust that and wait for the fix or decide you don't want to risk it and return the phone move on. Or I guess you could keep posting bogus evidence about number of bars and signal strength readings on your wife's XYZ phone and the 8 other phones you tested in the Verizon store.

 

[sc4fpse]

Obviously some people don't like to read more than a tweet. The Anandtech article did not say there is no issue.

Verizon confirming though a tweet that there’s some sort of signal issue affecting the Galaxy Nexus confuses me, since from my perspective there isn’t any issue at all.

Emphasis mine.

You've argued the same point a few times now. I don't think anyone here is challenging you on that. What your point/Anandtech's point doesn't explain is why the Galaxy Nexus is having trouble receiving any signal (read: 1X voice) at all in many locations where other devices (LTE and 3G only) have had no problem at all. And the whole "time without signal" thing is pretty perplexing too, and sure doesn't seem to have anything to do with the number of signal strength bars indicated on any device. Again, I hope this isn't just the result of poor Samsung [hardware] radios.

 

[VideoEngineerAJS]

Read this excerpt from Brian's article:



Click to view quoted image


In other words, when the Thunderbolt is in LTE mode, it's STILL displaying it's 3G connection. Notice that the Galaxy Nexus' 3G connection is the exact same as your Thunderbolt's "LTE" signal? Yes, your Thunderbolt goes down to -82 in 3G mode, but that's not a very high variance. It's possible if you tested it 30 seconds later it would have been at -90 again.

Everybody in every one of these signal threads needs to read the full article. In it, you can see that Brian actually has to run a logcat to get true LTE signal strength readings on the Bionic because it only displays 3G signal strength under "About Phone." For the Charge, he has to hack into a special menu in order to reveal it.

Click to view quoted image


Brandon

Again I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but my difference is physically noticeable. As in I ALWAYS had 4G in my house with my Thunderbolt and now I NEVER have 4G in my house with my Galaxy Nexus.

Now I am patient and I can wait for updates because I use wifi at home anyway, but waiting for the hand off is a bit annoying because I never had to worry about it before.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

 

[dman2275]

I feel a link to my thread from early December is relevant to this.

http://forums.androidcentral.com/ve...xus-properly-display-lte-signal-strength.html

It is VERY good to see that it looks like LTE signal is properly being mapped now. Very, VERY good for applications that rely on the LTE signal strength figure, such as Sensorly. The signal strength is a bittersweet reality, of course. Now we get to see how terrible LTE coverage really is in a lot of areas. Verizon has gotten away with this for so long because of the way LTE is designed -- it performs better even in fringe areas than 3G, so a lot of times people don't realize how close to no LTE coverage they really are, whereas on 3G it was definitely noticeable. Now, people will be able to see how well Verizon has really covered an area with LTE.

This does seem to go along with my observations this weekend. I traveled all over the state of Michigan. I saw 4 bars of signal strength for a total of maybe 10 minutes during multiple hours of interstate highway and inner-city travel. I was absolutely flabbergasted, and figured that was just the result of some software bug in the Galaxy Nexus which resulted in a 20 dBm difference in signal strength. But this all makes sense now. There are estimates that Verizon puts LTE on every 2nd or 3rd tower in a lot of areas. LTE signal will travel a little further under the same conditions as 3G (at least on VZW's frequencies for the two networks), so they can get away with this for the most part. This is how Verizon has been able to expand it's LTE network so fast -- they cover only the most crucial towers as their programs instruct them to, and then they move on to the next locale, and only come back when they decide they need to (or when enough people complain about crappy coverage).

The author of that article says that it is likely that Google/Verizon will "remedy" this problem with a placebo -- perhaps by reverting to the old 1X display, or by artificially increasing the number of signal strength bars displayed, ala the iPhone awhile back. This would be unfortunate, as the author says. I only hope that this will convince Verizon to maybe take a step back and think about what they're doing in terms of their LTE rollout. But I'm realistic, and realize that's a freaking pipe dream at best.


Now, as for my complaint about the article: The author seems to dismiss the idea that there is an actual signal strength problem with the Galaxy Nexus. While many of the "problems" that people seem to be having are likely related to this display of LTE signal strength instead of 1X as on previous LTE devices, there is still a serious problem. Everyone I've talked to is connecting to 4G in fewer places than with their previous devices. In the office I work at, with my Thunderbolt there was one single interior room where I would drop to 3G. Now, there are multiple interior rooms and hallways in which I revert to 3G. I can only hope that Samsung's radios aren't that bad and that there is a software issue that can be remedied in a future update.


tl;dr: FINALLY LTE devices are displaying LTE signal instead of 1X. Article brings up good points, but author is mistaken in claiming that there isn't an actual problem with signal on the gNex.

Excellent post! The article is a great read and I agree with the reliability of Anandtech's reviews.

But.....I also agree with what you are saying. There is definitely a signal strength issue with the SGN. I wrote several posts about my observations playing with the phone and my Charge side by side in the Verizon store. There was no 4G in that particular store so it was comparing 3G to 3G (apples to apples). I also checked the signal strength (dBm) on other phones next to it and the SGN showed a higher number than every other phone by a 10 to 20 difference.

I personally think it can be fixed with a software change in the radio. My Charge was much better (night and day) when I flashed the GB update to my phone. It made a world of difference and I am hoping they can do the same for the SGN.

I love everything about the SGN but signal strength and battery life are the two most important things for me. I am in an area when I am on the move, my phone switches between 4G and 3G constantly so I need to make sure I have a signal. Until the new patch comes out, I am patiently waiting on the sideline with my Charge.

Edit: I forgot to mention, if I had bought the phone I would definitely wait until the end of the holiday return date to return the phone. Enjoy that ICS !!!

 

[burwil]

I live in a 4g extended area but that signal is non existant on my Gnex and my 3g signal is so bad I have lost connection on that to the tune of 28% just last nite. If the focus with Anandtech is 4g LTE then its pretty irrelevant to me and many others who are struggling to get any signal, period. And to have a reasonable battery life. More discussions with Verizon tech people today.....we'll see what the next move would be. Would hate to lose the phone. I think there is only a small chance it's defective. My droid og and X are in the high 80's to mid 90s dbm while the Nexus in high 90s and above. Crossing my fingers on a software fix. Or may I just need to switch carriers who do better in my area.

 

[PowerThroughLove]

People complaining about having 3G when they used to have 4G - this is likely just due to the cutoff limit on 4G for each phone. The Moto's may very well be hanging on to that LTE signal until it reaches below a threshold (say 110dbm) while the Nexus is just switching over at a more conservative number (say 100dbm). Thats a software decision, and can be tweaked to Verizon's and Samsung's content.

People complaining about dropping calls when they did not before - thats a more concerning issue, and something that may not have as easy a fix. Will have to see.

 

[VideoEngineerAJS]

People complaining about having 3G when they used to have 4G - this is likely just due to the cutoff limit on 4G for each phone. The Moto's may very well be hanging on to that LTE signal until it reaches below a threshold (say 110dbm) while the Nexus is just switching over at a more conservative number (say 100dbm). Thats a software decision, and can be tweaked to Verizon's and Samsung's content.

People complaining about dropping calls when they did not before - thats a more concerning issue, and something that may not have as easy a fix. Will have to see.

I hope they do tweak it because that's a little disheartening if that's the case. I mean I never use 4G at home, it's just frustrating that I lose it. I mean my Thunderbolt never lost it and I actually did a side by side with my Galaxy Nexus and my wife's Revolution and in actuality the signals were pretty close (the Nexus was 3 to 5 dbm higher), but the Revolution stayed on 4G and mine was on 3G. Again I know it's not a huge deal, but still just annoying.

 

[TerryMasters]

Even though this doesn't sound like particularly bad news, it's kind of hard for me to take anything Anandtech says seriously after they deliberately forged their benchmarks to make the iPhone 4S look superior to the Galaxy SII.

 

[JoeUserTX]

Many thanks to the OP for posting the article, it cleared up a lot of misconceptions by me, regarding the reporting of the Nexus' signal strength. It's nice to hear that the Nexus is displaying a true LTE signal strength, and that I can discount the comparisons of signal strength between other LTE-enabled phones (since the other models don't report the same criteria; apples and oranges bit).

Sounds like Samsung and/or Verizon can tweak the handoff better between 3G and 4G, so that those that hit weaker coverage can retain LTE with a lower threshold. I'm wondering if the handoff is also causing other issues (such as app crashes, reboots, and/or drop of service altogether).

I, myself, have not experienced the above issues, and the transition between 3G and 4G is event-free. With luck, perhaps the 4.0.3 update will bring more stability and robustness to connectivity.

 

[Gratificulous]

Excellent find. This is very informative and clears up some misconceptions.

 

[MazoMark]

I, for one, would love to see a connection option -- prefer battery life, the cutoff threshold is a higher dBm figure. Prefer 4G LTE, cutoff threshold is a lower (more negative, that is) dBm figure.

coverage.

I agree a connection option would be a great tool. I'm sure software was written to maximize battery, but there are situations where you'll sacrifice battery to get the added speed of even a weak 4G signal. Would be nice if user would have option to control this!

 

[alcor34]

Excerpt: "I?ve been running battery life tests on our LTE Galaxy Nexus review unit since release day (a process that takes a considerable amount of time and results in our reviews posting a while behind everyone else?s), but have had some time to run tests and gauge subjective performance. I found that LTE connectivity and performance felt above average, subjectively, and noted that in a tweet. After complaints started to surface, I spent a considerable amount of time reading the threads on XDA and other places around the web trying to discern what the complaints are about. I?ve seen a couple of big misconceptions that I think really get to the heart of the matter."

Full Article: Investigating the Galaxy Nexus LTE Signal Issue

I thought the issue was just getting on the tower not the strength after being on it. So as informative as that article may be. Its wrong to make some of those statements when they have not grasped the issue. That's what vzw is referring to.

 

[bplewis24]

Again I don't know how many times this needs to be said, but my difference is physically noticeable. As in I ALWAYS had 4G in my house with my Thunderbolt and now I NEVER have 4G in my house with my Galaxy Nexus.

Now I am patient and I can wait for updates because I use wifi at home anyway, but waiting for the hand off is a bit annoying because I never had to worry about it before.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

Emphasis mine.

You've argued the same point a few times now. I don't think anyone here is challenging you on that. What your point/Anandtech's point doesn't explain is why the Galaxy Nexus is having trouble receiving any signal (read: 1X voice) at all in many locations where other devices (LTE and 3G only) have had no problem at all.

Well, I think we all need to take a step back and remember that there could STILL be defective phones out there, and there could still be some type of attenuation issue. What Anandtech is pointing out is that there are no signal display issues, and that other phones under similar conditions have similar signal strength levels. Nothing more, nothing less. He makes sure to not make any claims about 3G or 1x and clarifies this in the comments.

I happen to believe there may be an attenuation problem with the phone, as if I try and apply the "death grip" to the phone, I can get it to degrade the signal pretty severely. I'm pretty sure they will cover as much of this issue as anybody else has combined in their full review.

And I think the claim that they are biased because they "fudged" numbers to make the iPhone4s look great is preposterous. They do have a preference for Apple hardware at Anandtech, but their numbers are purely objective.

Brandon

 

[sc4fpse]

Well, I think we all need to take a step back and remember that there could STILL be defective phones out there, and there could still be some type of attenuation issue. What Anandtech is pointing out is that there are no signal display issues, and that other phones under similar conditions have similar signal strength levels. Nothing more, nothing less. He makes sure to not make any claims about 3G or 1x and clarifies this in the comments.

Yeah, I should have worded my initial reply a little bit better. He didn't say anything about non-signal strength issues, but the way he worded it, it came across as if he believed that there was absolutely no real problem with the Nexus, and that the only issue people were talking about was the alleged signal strength issue, which was really just LTE signal strength being displayed properly. Just a sentence or two noting that there may be (or rather, are) other legitimate signal issues would have been helpful in the article.

I happen to believe there may be an attenuation problem with the phone, as if I try and apply the "death grip" to the phone, I can get it to degrade the signal pretty severely. I'm pretty sure they will cover as much of this issue as anybody else has combined in their full review.

Just curious -- are you left handed? The CDMA radio is in the bottom left corner of the device (when you're looking at the screen), and the LTE radio is in the upper left corner. Wifi/Bluetooth is center right. All of this according to FCC docs. The Nexus is a pretty big phone. While you might be able to cover the CDMA radio during normal use, unless you're a freak, your hands won't come anywhere near that LTE radio.

 

[MazoMark]

While you might be able to cover the CDMA radio during normal use, unless you're a freak, your hands won't come anywhere near that LTE radio.

Who are you calling a freak?

 

[JoeUserTX]

Who are you calling a freak?

LOL, just don't face-palm yourself...

 

[Ken7]

Hopefully there is something else in the software than can be altered to alleviate this problem, and hopefully it's not just a terrible Samsung [hardware] radio.

And that's been precisely what I've been worried about from day 1. Having had experience with miserable Samsung radios, I was hoping the Nexus would be different. Although it's better than my Charge was, it's not as good at holding 4G as the Rezound was.

I personally give it no better than a 50-50 chance this will be resolved via software. If it's not, Nexus owners with this issue are screwed...big time.

 

[Ken7]

Read the comments on the first page of the article. The author says that this isn't an issue, but rather how the radio itself is programmed. Basically, that the radio was specifically programmed to default to 3G at a certain signal level, which is, for whatever reason, lower than previous devices. But that in and of itself isn't a problem with the radio, or a problem with it staying connected. Its how the radio's software was written, and how Samsung/Verizon intended it.

And it may have been programmed that way because the hardware is weaker and less sensitive. To me it's entirely logical that if a weaker radio was installed in the Nexus, you'd want to program so it switches to the more common and more robust 3G signal quicker. I suspect that if you let it linger too long on a weak 4G signal, the radio hardware may just hang and the infamous (to owners of the Charge) "no data connectivity" will rear its ugly head.

I think the only smart way to view this for people having real problems and assuming they get to the end of their return window, is that this is a hardware issue. I'd hate to be someone that has consistent data issues and has reached the end of his return window and keeps the phone under the hope/assumption that a software fix will solve this.

I hope it will, but that's far far from a guarantee.

 

[Ken7]

Glad those guys are so smart at Anandtech. Maybe they can explain to me why my time without a signal was 28% on the Gnex and 3% on the DroidX. Each sitting a foot or so from each other. CDMA only.

Although what you're saying is not the same, there are too many of these reports with 4G signal loss to assume the radio is not the issue. Nobody cares what the reported #s are when they KNOW they've had 4G reception in the same place with other phones and the Nexus reverts to 3G. With all due respect to Andandtech, there IS an issue with the phone's radio.