Not a "real Nexus?" WTF?

[tyea]

If Samsung has license to distribute, why can't they host the images? What's Qualcom's problem about the Android open source project for cdma phones? How could it harm their profit? I wish Google, and Qualcom would make a direct statement about what the real reasons the are cdma versions can't be open source.

Sprint GN, Tapatalk2

 

[DenverRalphy]

Wait a minute - someone brought this up earlier and I didn't see an answer... How does Apple work around this? Or doesn't it? I never recalled hearing about VZW/Sprint having any hands in the update process for iOS.

With the high demand for iOS devices, it was a simple matter for Apple to dictate their own terms with the carriers. Apple's terms with the carriers are significantly different than any other smartphone manufacturer. So much so, that the carriers are grinding their teeth over the terms, but still deem it a necessary evil.

 

[zedorda]

Since the 4.0.4 OTA is being released I wonder what the next complaint will be.

http://www.droid-life.com/2012/05/0...-4-0-4-imm76k-update-on-verizon-galaxy-nexus/

 

[macewank]

Google can't do it, but CM, AOKP, etc all can?

My impression has been that there are portions (beyond the radio image and RIL) that google can't distro source for (because of signing issues?) and so they've basically just dropped support for CDMA. While Apple says "we control it all, or it's nothing", Google is basically doing the same thing on the opposite extreme: "we distribute it all, or it's nothing."

BTW, 4.0.4 is a CDMA image (For sprint)

You'll notice with roms like CM and the AOKP that they rarely ever work out of the box. Generally code tweaks have to be made and those code tweaks are allowed to be distributed because they are owned by the project, not by a vendor.

As for 4.0.4 on sprint. Despite the fact that the Sprint and Verizon nexus are both CDMA/LTE that doesn't mean they are compatible. This is why we haven't seen an official 404 build for the vzw nexus.

Apple doesn't have it any easier. They benefit in that they, in this example, are both Google AND Samsung. The process can move faster for them because of that.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[rockstar323]

We have no clue what Verizon's agreement with Apple is for them to sell the iPhone. I know the CDMA iPhone users had to wait on the 5.0.1 update for about a month, but I think they got the 5.1 update at the same time.

So a few things could have happened:

Verizon could test the updates and they approved it in time for Apple to release them both at the same time

Apple tells Verizon that if they are going to sell the iPhone they have to let Apple handle all the software testing.

Verizon, due to it's large customer base, could have an agreement with Apple that they have to give Verizon time to approve the software before they go public with it.

Verizon is notorious for testing the crap out of phones and software updates, for good reason. Our company used to use a ton of Blackberrys, before we switched to Android, on sprint and Verizon. When we would update the Verizon BB's we usually had to wait a while for updates but there wouldn't be a whole lot of bugs. The Sprint BB's usually need a patch or 2 after an update to get all the bugs out since they don't test as thoroughly as Verizon.

In the end I bought the Nexus because it takes like 5 min to unlock and root it and you don't have to jump through a bunch of hoops or poke it with a paper clip. The developer community for it is huge so you don't have to hope and beg that a certain ROM will be made available for it. I could care less about having the latest version of stock Android from Google , I've had 4.0.4 with AOKP for a while now.

tl;dr version:
Don't worry about what Apple does, we don't use their phones.
Verizon tests the crap out of software updates so they don't get a bunch of calls about an update borking someone's phone.
If you want the latest version of Android get the GSM model or unlock it, root it and ROM it, it is a Nexus after all.

 

[djthomas98]

In the system image, there are a handful of files that need changed because the Nexus is on a CDMA network. Google does not have the required licenses to re-distribute these files, they must come from Samsung and Verizon.

New to the forum, so not sure if this has been discussed in the past, but: Is there a chance that Google will create a GSM Nexus device that supports T-Mobile's 42Mbps HSPA network, or are there licensing restrictions with that as well? Would Google have the freedom to make all the necessary changes to the radio image to support it?

 

[chubb]

Since the 4.0.4 OTA is being released I wonder what the next complaint will be.

http://www.droid-life.com/2012/05/0...-4-0-4-imm76k-update-on-verizon-galaxy-nexus/

Nice heads up with the article. If its true I say about time.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Murph5150]

It's really not a Nexus device. Verizon ruined it like they do every other android device they get their hands on. Verizon + Android = crippled device.

My unlocked GSM Nexus is a real Nexus device. I'll probably have Jellybean months before the Verizon version.

With that said, do you feel Verizon is capable of releasing a true Nexus device?

 

[Ardrid]

I love this phone it has problems yes (bad reception,bad speakers,bad camera,)but the community support on this device is amazing.I'm running 4.0.4 on it now if you root you can easely get this update so why all the fuss on the update?

I have to wonder whether you'd be singing the praises of the iPhone if it had the problems you speak of.

To the point of the thread, no, I don't believe Verizon's Galaxy Nexus is a real Nexus if the Nexus was meant to be Google's version of the iPhone: a pure, unmarred experience. Currently, only the GSM Galaxy Nexus meets that definition.

 

[stoneworrior]

This isn't true. Most of the CDMA technology is owned by Qualcomm, and they are the reason Google has trouble with CDMA licenses not because of Verizon or Sprint per-say.

So then its Qualcomm, either way somewhere outside of the open source realm there is a company with a financial interest in this technology. A company that does not want to Google to have access to it, at least that is what I am getting out of this whole thing.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[poopsies]

An update can consist of 4 parts:
system image
boot image
recovery image
radio image

Google builds the system image, boot image, recovery image from their source code.

Samsung and Verizon build the radio image.

In the system image, there are a handful of files that need changed because the Nexus is on a CDMA network. Google does not have the required licenses to re-distribute these files, they must come from Samsung and Verizon.

Google has a penta-band unlocked reference device. They build a version of Android for it, and test on it. When it passes their testing, the update is ready as far as Google is concerned. Verizon and Samsung then take that update (probably in the form of source code, not zip files) and make the required changes to allow the Nexus to work on a CDMA network. When finished, they give the green light for the update to be distributed from Google's servers.

Take everything above, and apply it to LTE as well, since it's a very closed and proprietary standard.

Because these versions are different when built, they need a different version number. This is why the GSM Nexus and CDMA Nexus will never be on the same version.

4.0.4 is the current version of Android. Any fixes special or specific to the CDMA Nexus are not included -- because Google does not have license to include them.

4.0.5 (maybe) will be the version for CDMA. It will never be in AOSP, because it uses code that is not open source.

Now is the time to ask any other questions. I'll try to answer if I know the answer.

So a GSM Nexus will never be on the same version as a CDMA Nexus? Yet the NS4G is on version 4.0.4 same as the GSM Nexus S and the GSM Galaxy Nexus. There are even reports of 4.0.4 on the NS4G having better 3G reception. That points to CDMA specific fixes being in 4.0.4. So that kinda blows your explanation out of the water.

Maybe since you guys work for such a big Android news site, one of you could actually bother to find out what the real truth is in the differences of versions between the CDMA and GSM Nexus models by asking Google directly, instead of guessing. Better yet why don't you ask Google to define what a "Nexus" is when there is so much fragmentation existing between the CDMA and GSM models while your at it.

 

[dmmarck]

Since the 4.0.4 OTA is being released I wonder what the next complaint will be.

http://www.droid-life.com/2012/05/0...-4-0-4-imm76k-update-on-verizon-galaxy-nexus/

Oh baby, I need me those radios!

Custom ROM makers just pull the radio images from the phone and incorporate it into their ROM. They don't write, compile or do anything new.

Google still does provide the binaries it can, like graphics and wifi, just not the radio.
https://developers.google.com/android/nexus/drivers (bottom)

Most roms (presumably all, but even I have not tasted every fruit of the poisonous tree) do not include the radios within their zips; usually it's a separate flashable file. Heck, the radios don't even "stick" with a nandroid!

 

[gravage]

Fact: Every HTC Device on Verizon is blocked from HTC hub services, such as ringtone and theme downloads. This only applies to the Verizon versions. Other carriers allow you to have full access to the HTC Hub.

Fact: Verizon loads more bloatware in their roms and locks it so you can't uninstall most of it.

Fact: Verizon's version of the Nexus has Verizon apps installed that are locked in the ROM. This is the exact opposite of what a Nexus is intended to be.

 

[Droosh]

In response to all question why can Apple do x and Google can't? ...

Because they have much more leverage with Carriers than Google and the willingness to put their foot down.

 

[dmmarck]

Fact: Every HTC Device on Verizon is blocked from HTC hub services, such as ringtone and theme downloads. This only applies to the Verizon versions. Other carriers allow you to have full access to the HTC Hub.

Fact: Verizon loads more bloatware in their roms and locks it so you can't uninstall most of it.

Fact: Verizon's version of the Nexus has Verizon apps installed that are locked in the ROM. This is the exact opposite of what a Nexus is intended to be.

Two Verizon apps. Can they not be disabled (forgive my ignorance, I haven't been stock in months)?

Let's face it, with carriers and their dominance it's hard for ANY phone to be a true Nexus device if it first goes through a carrier. Hence the GSM > LTE argument.

On top of that, the legal issues with licensing, signing off, and general intellectual property rights are highly complex in this area, mainly because the law is simply outdated, archaic, and generally inapplicable to the changing technological landscape. Hence the CDMA debacle that Jerry explained very nicely.

 

[Ry]

So a GSM Nexus will never be on the same version as a CDMA Nexus? Yet the NS4G is on version 4.0.4 same as the GSM Nexus S and the GSM Galaxy Nexus. There are even reports of 4.0.4 on the NS4G having better 3G reception. That points to CDMA specific fixes being in 4.0.4. So that kinda blows your explanation out of the water.

Maybe since you guys work for such a big Android news site, one of you could actually bother to find out what the real truth is in the differences of versions between the CDMA and GSM Nexus models by asking Google directly, instead of guessing. Better yet why don't you ask Google to define what a "Nexus" is when there is so much fragmentation existing between the CDMA and GSM models while your at it.

4.0.4 for a GSM Nexus device will never work on any CDMA Nexus device, hence versions will never be the same.

 

[gravage]

Two Verizon apps. Can they not be disabled (forgive my ignorance, I haven't been stock in months).

Let's face it, with carriers and their dominance it's hard for ANY phone to be a true Nexus device if it first goes through a carrier. Hence the GSM > LTE argument.

On top of that, the legal issues with licensing, signing off, and general intellectual property rights are highly complex in this area, mainly because the law is simply outdated, archaic, and generally inapplicable to the changing technological landscape. Hence the CDMA debacle that Jerry explained very nicely.

To my knowledge, they can't be uninstalled without rooting. You shouldn't have to hack a Nexus device to get a pure google experience. Sprint's version of the Nexus does not have any additional apps that are locked in the ROM.

And blocking access to HTC Hub is strictly a Verizon thing, too. They do it so you'll have to buy ringtones through them, but they take it to the extent that you can't even get Sense themes or wallpapers from HTC Hub.

 

[garyd]

You'll notice with roms like CM and the AOKP that they rarely ever work out of the box. Generally code tweaks have to be made and those code tweaks are allowed to be distributed because they are owned by the project, not by a vendor.

The point I was trying to make was that if google wanted to, they could release AOSP for the CDMA phones even if they used older modem images. For that matter, they could do exactly what CM/AOKP/etc all do, and just not include the modem images at all. In a way, that might actually pressure the carriers to move quicker on approving modem updates, etc - the customers would see firmware (it's not read-only) updates from google, and wonder why their carrier isn't updating the modem.

It can work and has worked for the last 5 months. My verizon GN is running 4.0.4 with 4.0.2 modems. Nothing special had to be done.

The only reason I've seen from google on why they won't do this is that certain packages that need to be included in the firmware must have certain digital signatures - so users can't build those packages themselves. Google hasn't given a reason why they can't distribute those same packages in binary form (actually, they do already but not officially.)

To me, that sounds like Google is saying: We can't sign it ourselves, and you can't sign it, therefore we won't support it. If google isn't supporting it, then it is not a "google nexus" phone. It might still be called a "nexus", but it's a VERIZON nexus (or a Sprint Nexus, or perhaps a "qualcomm nexus."

All that being said, I'm not really complaining. I purchased my "verizon nexus prime" just a few weeks ago and I don't regret it. I might have purchased the real GSM "google nexus" if it was available with 32GB of RAM (sorry, but 16GB and no memory slot is just too limiting.) (I wonder if the lack of a 32GB GSM nexus is the result of a contract...) Regardless, I'm running 4.0.4, and have been for weeks. Google might not be supporting me, but they probably wouldn't have supported half the stuff I do with my phone anyway.

What is a Nexus? Just a name and nothing more. I don't think the verizon phone is a real "google nexus" (for the reasons above), but it's pretty close.

Edit: correction, I'm running the leaked FA02 modems.. which apparently are independent of any specific version of android.

Gary

 

[dmmarck]

To my knowledge, they can't be uninstalled without rooting. You shouldn't have to hack a Nexus device to get a pure google experience. Sprint's version of the Nexus does not have any additional apps that are locked in the ROM.

And blocking access to HTC Hub is strictly a Verizon thing, too. They do it so you'll have to buy ringtones through them, but they take it to the extent that you can't even get Sense themes or wallpapers from HTC Hub.

I don't disagree, but the Verizon apps really don't "impede" on the Google experience--at least they didn't when I was riding stock. I think there needs to be a differentiation between actual impediment, which is somewhat seen with the updates, and perceived impediment based upon subjective wishes, opinions, etc., which is what I chalk the "2 Verizon app" backlash too (mostly).

Obviously, that's my own opinion. Verizon's evil, no doubt, but I'm getting unlimited 4G data (until they do away with such amazingness), and for me, that > GSM every time.

 

[dmmarck]

Since you clearly don't know what a Troll or a substantive post is, perhaps you should go fight your crusade somewhere else. I qualified my statement in a later post. Just because you're a Verizon fanboy and you don't like what you read, doesn't make the person who posts it a Troll. I have been a Verizon customer and I have owned many Android phones with them. I'm probably much more knowledgeable on this subject than you are.

I know you're fighting the "good fight" here, but that last statement does nothing for you, logically or otherwise. If we want to debate substantively and objectively, then do that, but really, there's no need to go down this rabbit hole.