09-22-2012 05:17 PM
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  1. dmmarck's Avatar
    As many of you know, I root. I'm proud of it. I'mm a nerd and it's what I do to pass the time (amongst other things, like post an insane amount of stuff here, imagine jumping through fields of hay with huskies, and imagine an Eagle Super Bowl victory led by Nick Foles).

    However, it seems that a lot of our "update" threads devolve. You know what I'm talking about. Usually one person will say the following:

    "OMG BE QUIET GUYS JUST ROOT ALREADY STOP WHINING"

    Or...

    "OMG DON'T YOU DARE MENTION ROOTING I ABSOLUTELY DON'T WANT TO DO IT"

    Or some variation thereof.

    Now while I'm a mod, I'm also a fairly curious individual. I enjoy discussion, I love Android, and I love our community. I want us to be able to sit on here for hours on hours on end, discuss everything and everything Galaxy Nexi, and come away happy and satisfied that we still have the coolest, baddest Android phone on the planet. However, turning a reasonable conversation into a "pro-root v. anti-root" debate, which often escalates very quickly (sans tridents, thank God), should be avoided. I myself am guilty of getting involved in some of these discussions, and while I may try to curb the tensions, I am human (but only on Wednesdays, lest you get any ideas).

    So I suppose what I'm attempting to say is please, have these discussions--heck, have them in this very thread if you so choose. But please, please, please--don't have them in threads where they are unwanted, unneeded, and only serve as platforms for general nuttiness and insanity. Remember, we chose the Nexus because (1) softkeys are sick, (2) ummm, stock Android, and (3) "Google leads the way, why shouldn't my phone?" We're all on the same team here. And the fact that we can even have a real debate about rooting v. not-rooting is, well, fortunate, because at least we don't need to use some crazy imported alloy to short some circuit in hopes that we get S Off.

    - D
    08-25-2012 12:19 AM
  2. kca2000's Avatar
    Soft Keys are definitely sick. Well stated.
    zero neck likes this.
    08-25-2012 12:33 AM
  3. 2defmouze's Avatar
    Excellent.. As I'm equally sick of the arguments but at least let's try and keep em contained

    Also impressed that Dmmarck managed to contain an OP to one post

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    08-25-2012 01:01 AM
  4. pool_shark's Avatar
    What is root?

    Sorry...couldn't resist.
    svfd757 likes this.
    08-25-2012 09:50 PM
  5. ChuckG73's Avatar
    I am not anti-Root. Just need someone to figure out how to make the Good app work while rooted, sign me up.
    Dr0me likes this.
    08-26-2012 06:49 AM
  6. craigrn16's Avatar
    I'm just saying if you're not happy with something about your phone just root it
    08-26-2012 07:48 AM
  7. zero neck's Avatar

    Also impressed that Dmmarck managed to contain an OP to one post

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    Hahahahahahahahahahahahhahah
    oxymoron likes this.
    08-26-2012 08:39 AM
  8. ayooo0's Avatar
    What's the easiest way to root?
    08-26-2012 09:19 AM
  9. youngzayiles's Avatar
    Way to many advantages to being rooted. I'll never wait for Verizon.

    Sent from my galaxy nexus running jelly bean!
    08-26-2012 11:28 AM
  10. Andrew Ruffolo's Avatar
    Flash a custom rom with root. You only need an unlocked phone.

    Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Android Central Forums
    08-26-2012 06:39 PM
  11. SeigaGen's Avatar
    It's kind of weird actually. When I first bought my Nexus earlier this year, there was so much debate in rooting vs. Not rooting. I myself was very hesitant on rooting. But the lack of Verizon updates pretty much pushed my limits. It was then that I realized the Nexus was designed for more possibilities that Verizon has locked.

    This device is meant to be tampered with. Especially for optimization in your design and not anyone else's.

    Transmitted by the Google Galaxy Nexus. Jellyfied!
    08-27-2012 01:39 AM
  12. bjrosen's Avatar
    The possibility of rooting was one of the reasons I bought the GN but I was hoping that I wouldn't have to do it. The primary reason I bought the Nexus was because I thought it would be getting frequent updates. I run Linux on all of my computers, Scientific Linux on my servers and Fedora on my desktop. Fedora has a major release every 6 months and daily updates including kernel updates. I had thought that a Nexus was Google's Fedora and I would be seeing frequent updates, obviously it hasn't turned out that way. Fortunately the root path was still there and that's saved the day for me.

    When my Verizon contract is up I'll be leaning towards buying my next phone directly from Google. In theory that's the only way Nexus phones should be sold because the whole idea of a development device goes against the DNA of the phone companies. For a hundred years the old AT&T focused entirely on reliability. They introduced new equipment once a decade at best. When they upgraded a central office they expected that they would use those switches for decades, 40 or 50 years wasn't uncommon. Everything they made was meant to work forever and it did, I have a Western Electric phone in my house that was built in the 1940s, it still works!!!. Their promise was that your phone would always work and the way you make that happen is to be extremely careful about anything you introduce and you roll things out at a glacial pace. That was Verizon's mother so you can see why they are congenitally incapable of issuing frequent updates, it's a wonder that they have done any at all. Also from their point of view most of their customers would be confused by an update which creates support costs for them. This is true even for most Nexus customers, most of whom bought it because of the 780p Super AmoLED screen not because they wanted frequent OS updates, I'm sure 99% of the owners of the GN don't know it's a developer phone. People who buy directly from Google will be self selected to be only those who are happy running beta software.

    The reason I put the qualification on buying my next phone directly from Google is that I don't know what state AT&Ts LTE network will be in next year. AT&T has been rolling out their LTE network at a glacial pace (see my comment's about her mother) so it might be several years before they have an adequate network. If Google is offering a CDMA Nexus phone at the end of next year there will be no question I'll buy it from them. I'll also buy it directly from Google if AT&T has a big LTE network. If neither of those conditions holds I'll continue to root for the next generation also.
    08-27-2012 08:19 AM
  13. davidnc's Avatar
    LoL I was happy with my Nexus but still opted to root it .I got it on Dec.15,2011 and rooted it on Dec.17,2011, so I did keep it stock for a little bit.
    I didnt root it for the lack of vzw updates ,I have taken only one "official"vzw update on any of the 4 android phones I ever owned.
    I didnt root or custom rom to fix anything .
    I did root to get rid of bloatware on some of the phones ,but more of a cutomization thing for me then anything else.
    Basically to keep from getting to long winded,, for me rooting and flashing custom Rom's main purpose was to make my phone mine.
    08-27-2012 08:29 AM
  14. turdbogls's Avatar
    I am sticking with my original position about the root/unlock topic.
    if you are unhappy with something about your phone or its lack of updates.....unlock it and take care of the problem

    if you dont want to root....dont complain about it.

    if you cannot root unlock due to reasons other than "i just dont know how" or "it scares me" (like if this is a company phone that does not allow rooting/unlocking) i completely sympathies with you. Verizon really ruined this phone...and not being able to enjoy the real nexus experience would suck.

    with that said....this has been the most enjoyable phone i have owned in the past 2.5 years and the only one i have kept for more than 6 months simply because i decided on day one to unlock and root. been flashing ROM's ever since.
    08-27-2012 08:58 AM
  15. TabGuy's Avatar
    I am sticking with my original position about the root/unlock topic.
    if you are unhappy with something about your phone or its lack of updates.....unlock it and take care of the problem

    if you dont want to root....dont complain about it.

    if you cannot root unlock due to reasons other than "i just dont know how" or "it scares me" (like if this is a company phone that does not allow rooting/unlocking) i completely sympathies with you. Verizon really ruined this phone...and not being able to enjoy the real nexus experience would suck.

    with that said....this has been the most enjoyable phone i have owned in the past 2.5 years and the only one i have kept for more than 6 months simply because i decided on day one to unlock and root. been flashing ROM's ever since.
    While your stance works for you I don't agree with the comment "if you dont want to root....dont complain about it". Many people have company phones and have signed a technology agreement which prohibits modifying the phone. Some have corporate apps like Good that don't work if the phone is rooted.

    So, the put-up-or-shut-up attitude is just simplistic thinking.
    Sboagy likes this.
    08-27-2012 09:20 AM
  16. rufflez's Avatar
    While your stance works for you I don't agree with the comment "if you dont want to root....dont complain about it". Many people have company phones and have signed a technology agreement which prohibits modifying the phone. Some have corporate apps like Good that don't work if the phone is rooted.

    So, the put-up-or-shut-up attitude is just simplistic thinking.
    So... whats stopping you from building JellyBean yourself and installing it? You don't need root, that's the whole point of the Nexus. Good will still work just fine. All you need is an unlocked bootloader and that, I believe, was recommended by every experienced Android user on here, also the recommendation posted on the front page from Day 1. Once you have JellyBean you can lock the bootloader should you choose.

    Of course, there is also the argument that you shouldn't be doing this type of stuff on your business phone. Get a personal phone if you feel you need to have the latest and greatest. So Argument still valid.
    08-27-2012 10:00 AM
  17. TabGuy's Avatar
    So... whats stopping you from building JellyBean yourself and installing it? You don't need root, that's the whole point of the Nexus. Good will still work just fine. All you need is an unlocked bootloader and that, I believe, was recommended by every experienced Android user on here, also the recommendation posted on the front page from Day 1. Once you have JellyBean you can lock the bootloader should you choose.

    Of course, there is also the argument that you shouldn't be doing this type of stuff on your business phone. Get a personal phone if you feel you need to have the latest and greatest. So Argument still valid.
    My understanding of the argument is: "Root it or shut up."

    That lack of tolerance is a bully attitude. I don't buy it.
    draftpeppin and Racer X like this.
    08-27-2012 10:25 AM
  18. Dr0me's Avatar
    I am not anti-Root. Just need someone to figure out how to make the Good app work while rooted, sign me up.
    same! I have rooted and flashed custom roms on my nexus 7 but my G nex is my work phone and I can't There isn't a day that goes by that I don't wish I could just unlock, root and put jelly bean on my phone. VZW is the best network but is the worst for OS updates.

    It was a little scary the first time i flashed a rom but it literally is like second nature now. If you do not have restrictions with work email I think there is little excuse to not root and flash JB onto your nexus besides being stubborn and afraid. If you are posting on these forums you prob care about your phone enough to warrant investing a few hours or watching a video tutorial on how to do it.
    08-27-2012 10:57 AM
  19. turdbogls's Avatar
    While your stance works for you I don't agree with the comment "if you dont want to root....dont complain about it". Many people have company phones and have signed a technology agreement which prohibits modifying the phone. Some have corporate apps like Good that don't work if the phone is rooted.

    So, the put-up-or-shut-up attitude is just simplistic thinking.
    did you even read the 3rd part of my post before jumping all over me....it adresses this VERY topic.
    08-27-2012 11:19 AM
  20. rufflez's Avatar
    My understanding of the argument is: "Root it or shut up."

    That lack of tolerance is a bully attitude. I don't buy it.
    Well you are mistaken. This is coming from someone who is not rooted. I have rooted other phones to get the functionality of this phone. I see no need to root. In fact, there is a common misconception of what root is. I rooted older phones so that I could:

    1) Tether. By simply installing a free non-root widget, I bypass Verizon's check to see if I have paid for tethering service. I don't. I also don't tether very much as I have wifi at work now and use my tablet to look up stuff I need to there.

    2) Take Screen Shots. This is a feature built into 3.0+ devices.

    3) Install a custom recovery. With an unlocked bootloader, this is unnecessary. All you need is a computer... or a tablet with a usb-port. You don't even need to flash it, you can boot into the recovery an perform all the same tasks flashing a recovery to the device does. This is helpful for installing leaks that need the stock bootloader in order to flash.

    That is all I needed root for in the past. Since you can boot into recovery, you don't even need to root to try a custom ROM. You can make a backup, flash ROM, if you don't like it, restore your backup and everything is exactly the way it was. You even preserve the functionality of installing updates.

    The point is... You do not have a right to complain. Take that crap elsewhere. We are all tired of hearing it. I have even gotten to the point where I do not help out on here as much because of the constant bickering. If you don't want to read, you should not type.
    draftpeppin likes this.
    08-27-2012 11:26 AM
  21. dmmarck's Avatar
    Well you are mistaken. This is coming from someone who is not rooted. I have rooted other phones to get the functionality of this phone. I see no need to root. In fact, there is a common misconception of what root is. I rooted older phones so that I could:

    1) Tether. By simply installing a free non-root widget, I bypass Verizon's check to see if I have paid for tethering service. I don't. I also don't tether very much as I have wifi at work now and use my tablet to look up stuff I need to there.

    2) Take Screen Shots. This is a feature built into 3.0+ devices.

    3) Install a custom recovery. With an unlocked bootloader, this is unnecessary. All you need is a computer... or a tablet with a usb-port. You don't even need to flash it, you can boot into the recovery an perform all the same tasks flashing a recovery to the device does. This is helpful for installing leaks that need the stock bootloader in order to flash.

    That is all I needed root for in the past. Since you can boot into recovery, you don't even need to root to try a custom ROM. You can make a backup, flash ROM, if you don't like it, restore your backup and everything is exactly the way it was. You even preserve the functionality of installing updates.

    The point is... You do not have a right to complain. Take that crap elsewhere. We are all tired of hearing it. I have even gotten to the point where I do not help out on here because of the constant bickering. If you don't want to read, you should not type.
    While I understand that you're frustrated, they do have a right to complain--hence this topic as a means of redirecting complaints, etc., from topics that should not have it (like the 85 update threads) to this thread. If folks can complain and discuss it, we may in fact learn something--at least that's my hope .

    Regarding root, you are correct--many people have misconceived ideas of what it is, what it does, and what it means. All "rooting" does is give you the ability to grant (or deny) permissions. These permissions access the very "starting" point of the file system--or the root of the file system. That's all. Unlocking the bootloader, at least how I see it, is far more impactful and powerful of an action. But because of common parlance, unlocking seems to be subsumed within the commonly used term of "rooting."

    In fact, I have not "rooted" a device in some time. It's a superfluous step, IMO. I unlock the bootloader to flash unsigned packages--namely, ROMs and the like. Roms, for the most part, come rooted, and some (e.g. CM) come with the option to "disable" root or only offer limited access (which, in reality, helps stay clear of security issues; CM did this because of those very concerns, particularly with Wallet).
    Racer X, jroc, draftpeppin and 1 others like this.
    08-27-2012 11:32 AM
  22. rufflez's Avatar
    While I understand that you're frustrated, they do have a right to complain--hence this topic as a means of redirecting complaints, etc., from topics that should not have it (like the 85 update threads) to this thread. If folks can complain and discuss it, we may in fact learn something--at least that's my hope .

    Regarding root, you are correct--many people have misconceived ideas of what it is, what it does, and what it means. All "rooting" does is give you the ability to grant (or deny) permissions. These permissions access the very "starting" point of the file system--or the root of the file system. That's all. Unlocking the bootloader, at least how I see it, is far more impactful and powerful of an action. But because of common parlance, unlocking seems to be subsumed within the commonly used term of "rooting."

    In fact, I have not "rooted" a device in some time. It's a superfluous step, IMO. I unlock the bootloader to flash unsigned packages--namely, ROMs and the like. Roms, for the most part, come rooted, and some (e.g. CM) come with the option to "disable" root or only offer limited access (which, in reality, helps stay clear of security issues; CM did this because of those very concerns, particularly with Wallet).
    No, they can complain elsewhere, to Google, Samsung, Verizon. There is no reason we should be treated like we caused whatever issue they have. The do not have the right to treat the people who help like dirt. If they want help, come with open eye/ears. Put your frustrations aside and ask politely. Other forums have rules about this... this one is pretty lax on the Search before you ask rule.
    08-27-2012 11:37 AM
  23. dmmarck's Avatar
    No, they can complain elsewhere, to Google, Samsung, Verizon. There is no reason we should be treated like we caused whatever issue they have. The do not have the right to treat the people who help like dirt. If they want help, come with open eye/ears. Put your frustrations aside and ask politely. Other forums have rules about this... this one is pretty lax on the Search before you ask rule.
    If you don't want to read their complaints, don't. But I made the purpose of this topic very clear. I don't want those complaints, arguments, etc. in threads where the original purpose of the thread was something entirely different, i.e. an update. But here, if they want to have civilized, meaningful discourse, not only is that kosher, but that's completely encouraged. Any discussion that is not of that nature, well, that's not good and not going to be tolerated. If they want to discuss why they believe it to be a "bullying" attitude, then do so; I believe the fruits of the argument will pay dividends, but that's just my opinion. Everything can be discussed, just in a way that maintains "communal spirit."

    If you see someone who you think is bullying, acting unfairly, or being abusive, use the report function.

    Lastly, the "search before you ask" replies grind my gears like nothing else. If you (or anyone) wants to post like that, post up a link to help--or a variety of links. Otherwise, it's not really beneficial to our community, the member, or our "database" of resources.
    bbudnick5001 and draftpeppin like this.
    08-27-2012 11:51 AM
  24. TabGuy's Avatar
    Isn't it ironic that the original post, which in itself is a complaint, is a plea to stop complaining?

    People generally complain because things aren't going the way they want them to go, it's a control issue,

    So it is with this thread
    08-27-2012 01:08 PM
  25. dmmarck's Avatar
    Isn't it ironic that the original post, which in itself is a complaint, is a plea to stop complaining?

    People generally complain because things aren't going the way they want them to go, it's a control issue,

    So it is with this thread
    I'd argue it's coincidental, merely because the purpose behind my thread and the relevant posts are entirely different in intent and desired effect. Further, I have no real personal affection either for or against the posts. Rather, I'm viewing this entirely as a moderator, advisor, etc.

    I was not complaining, I was asking. Not a plea, either. Let me distill it down. Such distillation would be:

    "No more complaints in other threads, put them here. Any and all other complaints in other threads are not acceptable because they deviate off topic and add nothing to the affected threads and discussions."

    If you construe my original post or the thread as anything else, please reference the line above. That is the purpose and thus the manifests my intent and the desired effect of such intent. If that did not come across in the OP, my apologies. However, I do not have the time to restructure/rewrite it, so again, please reference this post as the clarifying post.
    2defmouze likes this.
    08-27-2012 01:25 PM
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