Now I understand why people root their phones.... (venting here folks....)

[itic]

After dealing with samsung and t-mobile with a s3 i learned that if you want to rid yourself of bloatware and carrier/manufacturer restrictions you have to buy unlocked phones. It seems as if this is where things are trending as more and more people get fed up...

 

[blujay40]

itic,

Thanks for the thought but I am not sure that is a solution either since it is my understanding that these two apps (My Magazine and Flipboard) are not "carrier bloatware" but rather they were included in the Android OS from Samsung themselves and after at least a couple of calls to Samsung support, they advised that there is no way to disable them or turn them off. They never asked me who my provider was or if I had an unlocked phone so that would lead one to assume that even the unlocked phones have the same configuration/issue. I also saw at least a few write-ups from others that already have unlocked Note 3's and they can't turn it off either. The only mentions I have seen that were successful were to root the phone.

Anyone have any actual proof that My Magazine and Flipboard are implemented differently on unlocked Note 3's?

After dealing with samsung and t-mobile with a s3 i learned that if you want to rid yourself of bloatware and carrier/manufacturer restrictions you have to buy unlocked phones. It seems as if this is where things are trending as more and more people get fed up...

 

[VDub2174]

In all honesty blujay40, you should just root your Note 3. You seem like a tech savvy guy and the root process only takes minutes. After that you can get rid of those two apps that are bothering you.

 

[blujay40]

Yeah, I know. And It very well might just end up that way but the fact still remains that I shouldn't have to. People before me have turned to rooting their phones in the first place for exactly this type of manufacturer "slavery" and I guess if I had been that crazy about mobile devices long ago, I would have turned before now. But if everyone stops complaining and just decides to resort to rooting, then this stuff will never end. So deciding to root or not cannot and should not stop those of us that disagree with these types of things from continuing our "rage against the machine"!

At this point, I have "tolerating" the stock Note 3 as it is, but that could change at any moment. Besides, if I don't hurry up and jump to the dark side, there probably won't be any cookies left!

In all honesty blujay40, you should just root your Note 3. You seem like a tech savvy guy and the root process only takes minutes. After that you can get rid of those two apps that are bothering you.

 

[Relgoshan]

As a 40+ year vet of the computer industry, and a person highly exposed to computer "bloatware", I should have known this already but it never really hit home until I got my Note 3. From the early days of AOL, to having really no interest in "social media", these phone companies are taking "bloatware" to a new level. At least on computers, you could easily uninstall literally anything, including the OS. To this day, although they are sold with a lot of bloatware pre-installed, you can simply uninstall or disable it if you choose to. THAT is what I refer to as the "good old days".

Fast forward to today with the Note 3 and the apps My Magazine and Flipboard. These poster child bloatware apps are treated like critical apps that the Android OS on the Note 3 just can't seem to do without and are therefore configured so they cannot be turned off or uninstalled by a stock user. Then I looked at the changelog for KitKat on the Note 3 and there is absolutely NOTHING in there that I consider a "necessity" other than OS bug fixes. Everything else to me that is listed (such as the preloaded apps list) adds absolutely no "value" to the Note 3 for me. But yet, Verizon and Samsung have decided that this garbage needs to be included in it's "mandatory upgrade".

Although I have been able to configure My Magazine to not be such an "in the face" pain in the rear, and Flipboard happily living in the background, it still irks me on a daily basis that as the "owner" of this "computer", I cannot do what I want which is to get rid of those two apps along with the likes of Google+, Amazon, NFL, Blurb Checkout, ISIS, Tripadvisor, Hangouts, etc. I have absolutely no use for anything to do with "social media", will never store my credit info on a portable device, and care less about watching sports on my phone. So shouldn't I, as the purchaser of a "premium feature phone" have the option to "opt out" of this garbage? Guess not. I get my news from the internet but don't need an app for that. I keep in contact with my friends, co workers, and others via email and phone calls but I want to do it on MY time, not whenever THEY feel they need to bother me, or have it so readily available that it is easier to check my "tweets" than it is to answer the stinking phone.

Now don't get me wrong, I understand that I am a minority in this "social media" world, but do companies like Samsung really need to make it so that the few of us left in this world that want to be "different", can't "escape"? All I want is a nice, large screen pocket computer, with email, calendar, phone, that can handle my day to day business needs and maybe a few multimedia capabilities for my free time. I didn't even have a cell/smartphone until my job required it a few years back. Heck, I don't even tolerate texting unless someone texts me first! And then I advise them to call me next time because I probably won't respond to a text message the next time. I don't need my daily Facebook fix, or have troubles making it thru my day without knowing what is "trending". The only tweeting I want is from the birds at the feeder outside. I truly miss payphones!

I literally adore my Note 3 as a powerhouse, large screen phablet that meets my every business and daily need, other than this one MAJOR irritant. So going forward, this type of "mandatory app" loading will be a much larger deciding factor on what device I choose or don't choose. I shouldn't have to resort to rooting a phone just to get rid of a couple "non essential" apps. But if that is the way of the industry, then maybe the smartphone world is not for me after all. And after having a smartphone that can do the things I "need" it to do, going back to a flip phone now is only going to stir the resentment in me further so it isn't even a consideration at this point. I might as well go back to my pocket calendar, notepad, mp3 player, and home phone.

So, am I delusional to expect to be able to customize MY device to meet MY needs without having to violate a warranty, TOS, or "turning to the dark side" and learn all there is to know about rooting? It appears Samsung and others are giving me few alternatives at this point.

Sigh...........

Have a great day!

The short anser is that you *are* delusional.

The longer answer:

1) These are still 'phones', 'appliances', 'electronic devices', not labeled as computers hardly anywhere or by anyone. Now strictly, if a phone ran a 'desktop or workstation environment' such as real Windows or real Linux such as Ubuntu...then a case could be made in court that it should be called a computer.

2) The fundamental design of these mobile operating systems is to use solid packages. The junk you cannot remove is a 'feature of the device', and in their esteem those features are intrinsic and inseparable. Due to the nature of the operating system, most but not all of these features will have zero impact on critical system functions. The others can usually be paralyzed in some way without removing them.

3) Updates are labeled FIRMWARE not SOFTWARE. As in, a solid image of binary code *required* to operate an elecronic or electromechanical device. You cannot remove core apps without breaking any future updates, and you cannot exclude certain programs when accepting an update. This goes all the way back to Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player libs in Windows, wherein those were OS components and not standalone software as far as MS was concerned. See also the nightmare of interdependent package libs on Linux itself, if you add ONE use-mode program to Tiny Core it may require 20 additional packages including the full version of another program :/

4) These are companies trying to make money. They pay to include some features, and they are paid to include some features. And at the end, some of those features become required instead of optional. This is the cost that consumers must currently bear unless they wish to reflash and venture into new territory.

TL;DR it would be nice if Google fixed its crap and gave us a true OS that was modular and could be easily adapted to new hardware. Before x86 phones become common and run desktop grade OSes. (JK)

 

[itic]

itic,

Thanks for the thought but I am not sure that is a solution either since it is my understanding that these two apps (My Magazine and Flipboard) are not "carrier bloatware" but rather they were included in the Android OS from Samsung themselves and after at least a couple of calls to Samsung support, they advised that there is no way to disable them or turn them off. They never asked me who my provider was or if I had an unlocked phone so that would lead one to assume that even the unlocked phones have the same configuration/issue. I also saw at least a few write-ups from others that already have unlocked Note 3's and they can't turn it off either. The only mentions I have seen that were successful were to root the phone.

Anyone have any actual proof that My Magazine and Flipboard are implemented differently on unlocked Note 3's?

I have a unlocked/stock android nexus 7 and a moto X that has a few motorola added items, that i like and use, but nothing as intrusive as the eco crap samsung includes in tw. You could root but that might lead to larger problems if you need future carrier/manufacturer support..

 

[VDub2174]

Yeah, I know. And It very well might just end up that way but the fact still remains that I shouldn't have to. People before me have turned to rooting their phones in the first place for exactly this type of manufacturer "slavery" and I guess if I had been that crazy about mobile devices long ago, I would have turned before now. But if everyone stops complaining and just decides to resort to rooting, then this stuff will never end. So deciding to root or not cannot and should not stop those of us that disagree with these types of things from continuing our "rage against the machine"!

At this point, I have "tolerating" the stock Note 3 as it is, but that could change at any moment. Besides, if I don't hurry up and jump to the dark side, there probably won't be any cookies left!

I get what you're saying but unfortunately we can't order every cell phone the way we want it. This is the beauty of Android though because we do have the option of customizing our phones. If you want a pure Android experience right out the box, you should go with a Nexus device or even the Moto X. You know what you're getting into when you go with Samsung or HTC.

Cookies are always available

 

[myfirstcell]

YOU my friend are not alone in your opinion ... I also think the cell industry has us by the b*lls and i also would like to uninstall everything possible and install what I want .. not what someone else FORCES me to.. as you can tell my my username i have resisted the move forward to a cell for MANY years ..
I have been almost ran over by people on the cell
I have watched young couples out on dates .. both talking/texting on the cell NOT talking to each other at all
I have seen this country (usa) decline into non communicative sheep
and my rant can go on but i wont ..
I am looking for control of my cell (the reason to go android) .. i can still return it if need be .. hopefully i can find a company that will let me do what i want with MY cell ..so my research continues ..
mfc

 

[ScottColbert]

Get two cans and a piece of string, problem solved.

 

[blujay40]

Reigosha;

I must respectfully disagree with all but your last point. Labels are just that, labels. Sure, a "cell phone" fit the definition of a "device" when it first came to be. It was a single purpose electronic piece of hardware that made phone calls. They ran on "firmware" that was not designed to be modified or customized and again, was written to perform a single task, or very limited set of tasks much like a PC's BIOS.

So let's continue the same logic in looking at the first "computers". They should have also been called "devices" because they were nothing more than a single purpose electronic piece of hardware, albeit MUCH larger, but did nothing more than "compute" mathematical functions. And just as with cell phones, their initial "code" was strictly controlled. So should we be calling our Personal Computers, Personal Devices?

It's just that computers were envisioned to become what they are today and cell phones were not. So different terminology was used back then to try and differentiate between the two, but technological advances in both sides have blurred that line to the point of being non existant. However, the terminology hasn't evolved as it should have.

Fast forward to today's computers and smartphones. You could name off pretty much any task or capability of todays "computers" and today's "smartphones" can do them also, or vise versa. Maybe not as robustly when comparing a smartphone to a PC, but that is due to hardware limitations more than it is with software limitations. The fact is that my old HTC Thunderbolt had more processing power, and had better network capabilities than my first personal PC back in the 90's. Each has an OS and it matters not how modular or customizable they are. The simple fact that resellers of Android like Samsung, Verizon, ATT, Sprint, etc. are allowed to "add on" or modify the true "plain jane" functionality of Android to meet THEIR needs. This tells me all I need to know in regards to whether they are actually running "firmware" or a true OS and the fact that you can run apps or programs "on top" of Android, or connect to monitors, keyboards, mice, etc. via drivers or "hooks" into the OS, confirms that Android should be considered a true OS instead of firmware. The fact that any of these companies choose to "lock down" their code doesn't in and of itself make the code "firmware".

As for number 4, I agree wholeheartedly about this most likely being a money grab and nothing more. Too bad that Samsung wouldn't offer, or Google demand they offer, to make our devices "bloatware free" if we choose to pay an additional fee for doing so. All you need to do is look at the Kindle to see that it is not only feasible to offer their products "bloatware" or "ad free". A simple, legal, and acceptable "choice" was all I was asking for. Sorry, but I will never consider that delusional or unreasonable.

Been a pleasure to chat.

Have a great day!

 

[GANote3]

I have replaced my home screen with lightning and it is a paid for app, but it is very lightweight and efficient. I have used it for quite a while and I do not ever see my magazine or flip board. The big thing I like about lightning launcher is that I can have vertical and horizontal home screens, so if I swipe up or down I have different screens or left and right I do as well. I think there is a trial version for you to test it. I do not like my magazine or flip board either and this has pretty much done away with them. On my note pro 12 it is even worse but lightning rescued me there as well. Also no root needed!

Sent from my SM-N900V using AC Forums mobile app

 

[blujay40]

Will check into it. Thanks!

I have replaced my home screen with lightning and it is a paid for app, but it is very lightweight and efficient. I have used it for quite a while and I do not ever see my magazine or flip board. The big thing I like about lightning launcher is that I can have vertical and horizontal home screens, so if I swipe up or down I have different screens or left and right I do as well. I think there is a trial version for you to test it. I do not like my magazine or flip board either and this has pretty much done away with them. On my note pro 12 it is even worse but lightning rescued me there as well. Also no root needed!

Sent from my SM-N900V using AC Forums mobile app

 

[Relgoshan]

Reigosha;

I must respectfully disagree with all but your last point. Labels are just that, labels. Sure, a "cell phone" fit the definition of a "device" when it first came to be. It was a single purpose electronic piece of hardware that made phone calls. They ran on "firmware" that was not designed to be modified or customized and again, was written to perform a single task, or very limited set of tasks much like a PC's BIOS.

So let's continue the same logic in looking at the first "computers". They should have also been called "devices" because they were nothing more than a single purpose electronic piece of hardware, albeit MUCH larger, but did nothing more than "compute" mathematical functions. And just as with cell phones, their initial "code" was strictly controlled. So should we be calling our Personal Computers, Personal Devices?

It's just that computers were envisioned to become what they are today and cell phones were not. So different terminology was used back then to try and differentiate between the two, but technological advances in both sides have blurred that line to the point of being non existant. However, the terminology hasn't evolved as it should have.

Fast forward to today's computers and smartphones. You could name off pretty much any task or capability of todays "computers" and today's "smartphones" can do them also, or vise versa. Maybe not as robustly when comparing a smartphone to a PC, but that is due to hardware limitations more than it is with software limitations. The fact is that my old HTC Thunderbolt had more processing power, and had better network capabilities than my first personal PC back in the 90's. Each has an OS and it matters not how modular or customizable they are. The simple fact that resellers of Android like Samsung, Verizon, ATT, Sprint, etc. are allowed to "add on" or modify the true "plain jane" functionality of Android to meet THEIR needs. This tells me all I need to know in regards to whether they are actually running "firmware" or a true OS and the fact that you can run apps or programs "on top" of Android, or connect to monitors, keyboards, mice, etc. via drivers or "hooks" into the OS, confirms that Android should be considered a true OS instead of firmware. The fact that any of these companies choose to "lock down" their code doesn't in and of itself make the code "firmware".

As for number 4, I agree wholeheartedly about this most likely being a money grab and nothing more. Too bad that Samsung wouldn't offer, or Google demand they offer, to make our devices "bloatware free" if we choose to pay an additional fee for doing so. All you need to do is look at the Kindle to see that it is not only feasible to offer their products "bloatware" or "ad free". A simple, legal, and acceptable "choice" was all I was asking for. Sorry, but I will never consider that delusional or unreasonable.

Been a pleasure to chat.

Have a great day!

At this point the definition still carries weight. Psychologically too, you don't see the unbundling class action suits like there were with MS before.

People still view this as akin to buying a VCR. Modern phones are nearly full fledged Linux-like PCs but no one sees them as such and that is mainly Google's fault.

It is still a firmware based market. You cannot just install your favorite flavor of Android and then download some optimized drivers from a company website.

Any definition of computing from decades ago is null. "Modems" were hand wired wooden cabinets, and do you still remember when the CPU was the complete tower or rack unit itself? (Or dishwasher sized PDP or etc)

I am hoping that soon we'll see more demand for generic or vanilla Android as we mature away from the workstation OS/firmware model and into the general computing market. Less embedded and more flexible should be coming, but it's moving at a snail's pace.

Maybe soon you can get an Ubuntu phone or an x86 based Windows phone. Could be interesting!

 

[JRChristenson]

...I don't want certain things on my phone so I root to get rid of them. It's my personal choice...

That sounds like exactly what I want to do with my Note 3 (arriving any minute now). I've jailbroken iPhones and sideloaded apps on BlackBerry but this will be my first Android phone (I did have an Android tablet once). How can I go about rooting without voiding the warranty?

Thanks.

Jason

 

[VDub2174]

That sounds like exactly what I want to do with my Note 3 (arriving any minute now). I've jailbroken iPhones and sideloaded apps on BlackBerry but this will be my first Android phone (I did have an Android tablet once). How can I go about rooting without voiding the warranty?

Thanks.

Jason

Rooting, regardless of the method, voids the warranty. It's one of the lovely perks of rooting....lol

 

[JRChristenson]

Rooting, regardless of the method, voids the warranty. It's one of the lovely perks of rooting....lol

Interesting. I thought I understood from some of my other reading that there are methods that do not trip the Knox counter and thus do not void the warranty. Not true?

 

[VDub2174]

Interesting. I thought I understood from some of my other reading that there are methods that do not trip the Knox counter and thus do not void the warranty. Not true?

There are programs that may not trip the Knox counter. I used Kingo which isn't supposed to trip the counter but I don't know if that's still the case after the updates to the Note 3. The second time I rooted my Note 3 was with Odin and to be honest I haven't checked to see if it was tripped or not. It's a risk using any of these programs so I just like to assume that it's going to trip it and if it doesn't then it's a bonus.....haha

 

[JRChristenson]

Have you rooted it since KitKat?

 

[VDub2174]

Have you rooted it since KitKat?

The second time I rooted was after the KitKat update. I had to flash the update first, then root, then I could flash any ROM I wanted. I did that through Odin.

 

[JRChristenson]

My phone is here but I haven't activated it yet. I'll be interested to see if it forces a kitkat update right away.