Kitkat Issue: Can't Write to External SD Card

[bigredgonzo]

Re: Kitkat Issue: Can't Write to External SD Card

There are sometimes subtle issues you don't always notice at first. For instance, MX Player will play files. It will delete files. It can't rename them in my preferred directory...

Agreed, absolutely no argument there. Google's changes were to address SD Card security and I personally don't think they did a very good job letting the devs know what the changes did, or we wouldn't have see so many SD Card issues with 3rd party stuff. However, letting the devs know where you have issues is about the only way the issues will get addressed. I have read several articles and one white paper on the SD Card change and I don't quite comprehend how it will make the card more secure, but that is what they are claiming. If the 3rd party app is written correctly, it should have all the access that it needs to do what it is supposed to do, but no more. Somehow that concept is going to keep apps that don't need access from gaining it in other parts of the card where they don't need to be messing. Seems to me its like a lock on the back door of your house, it works fine and your key opens it and it keeps people out, but it the wrong people want in, the lock doesn't make any difference. My dad used to say a lock is designed to keep the honest people out. That is how I understand the SD Card Changes.

Anyway...its there and we deal with it.
BigRedGonzo

 

[monsieurms]

Re: Kitkat Issue: Can't Write to External SD Card

Agreed, absolutely no argument there. Google's changes were to address SD Card security and I personally don't think they did a very good job letting the devs know what the changes did, or we wouldn't have see so many SD Card issues with 3rd party stuff. However, letting the devs know where you have issues is about the only way the issues will get addressed. I have read several articles and one white paper on the SD Card change and I don't quite comprehend how it will make the card more secure, but that is what they are claiming. If the 3rd party app is written correctly, it should have all the access that it needs to do what it is supposed to do, but no more. Somehow that concept is going to keep apps that don't need access from gaining it in other parts of the card where they don't need to be messing. Seems to me its like a lock on the back door of your house, it works fine and your key opens it and it keeps people out, but it the wrong people want in, the lock doesn't make any difference. My dad used to say a lock is designed to keep the honest people out. That is how I understand the SD Card Changes.

Anyway...its there and we deal with it.
BigRedGonzo

I like your analogies. In point of fact, this "security" feature is just overkill. I don't know how Google can tell my apps what part of the card they are supposed to be messing with. If I want to point Cool Reader to /books or /Kindle or /ebooks, that is something I create.

The easiest way is to do what Microsoft does. Card wants to change a file, a warning pops up "allow?" Done. Stop the madness.

 

[bigredgonzo]

Re: Kitkat Issue: Can't Write to External SD Card

I like your analogies. In point of fact, this "security" feature is just overkill. I don't know how Google can tell my apps what part of the card they are supposed to be messing with. If I want to point Cool Reader to /books or /Kindle or /ebooks, that is something I create.

The easiest way is to do what Microsoft does. Card wants to change a file, a warning pops up "allow?" Done. Stop the madness.

From what I understand, the concept is an app says this is what I will use and it is allowed to use that and only that. Evidently there were some apps that were "digging around" in places that they didn't need to go. That being said, I use ES File Explorer. ES has no problems accessing any portion of the SD Card, which means that a "rogue" app would only need to request the same thing that ES does and they are back in business. Of course, that would require an update to the bad app and typically bad apps never get through their first update, but it could happen and very easily would be my guess. Anyway, this is Google's concept of better security. I haven't had any issues with it, but I agree with you. Why can't I keep my books, my music, my bible stuff, my whatever where ever I choose? Seems a bit overbearing to me. But just remember, with Android we are just one upgrade away from something very different and I guess that's why I love it.

BigRedGonzo

 

[MrHost]

You can keep it where ever you want! Not sure what the issue is. This is a restriction on your apps' not you. You choose to install app to internal or external memory. You don't choose the folder name. Broken apps need to be fixed as the example of Astro. I use es file explorer as well. Let's me connect to my cloud through it and I don't use those pesky dropbox and drive and box apps. I love it!

Posted via Android Central App

 

[Veronica Rusnak]

Not true. I had my photos saved to the SD card, and notice I was missing quite a few. Then I tried this little experiment and found that you lose stuff:

1. I took some pictures which saved to my internal storage in the "Camera" folder.
2. I used the Gallery (stock Google app, like you say above) to "move" those photos to a folder on my SD card where a lot of other pictures are.
3. I then moved a file from "Downloads" in my internal storage to "Downloads" in my SD card.

Everything looked hunky dory until I rebooted my phone. And when it all came back up, the photos and the document I moved from internal storage to the SD card were GONE.

I updated to KitKat on March 3. I notice there are no files older than 3/3/14 on my SD card. If I remove the SD card and put it in either of my computers (my mac at home, my windows machine at work), I cannot even write to it there.

None of my internal backups are there since 3/3/14.

This "upgrade" has rendered my SD card useless. Sorry, I don't need that patronizing little post about "what's misunderstood". It's BROKEN. Even the stock apps and Google/Android apps can't use the card. Feh!

 

[monsieurms]

You can keep it where ever you want! Not sure what the issue is. This is a restriction on your apps' not you. You choose to install app to internal or external memory. You don't choose the folder name. Broken apps need to be fixed as the example of Astro.

Yes, you can keep things wherever you want, but that will limit what 3rd party apps will do with the material. They may be able to access (play, as in PowerAmp playing MP3s) but they may not be able to alter files, write to the directory etc. Are the apps broken? Yes, in a way. Whether you call that the app fault or Google's is another story. How will that work in the future? Well, a good example is MX Player. They immediately released new updates so that you can now delete files from within Mx Player. But I used to also organize and rename files from within MX Player. If there is a way to do that, in the directory where I like to keep videos, they haven't figured out how. Will there be a workaround for that without Google making some amendments to its policies? I dunno.

 

[bluzman]

Re: Kitkat Issue: Can't Write to External SD Card

Apparently, Google has restricted apps from writing to the SD card without a specific type of coding or set of permissions or something like that. After updating to KitKat, I found that I could no longer transfer music files to my MP3 directory on my SD card, which is why I started the thread. It turns out that ASTRO File Manager (which I was using) hadn't been updated by the developer to accommodate the new OS. However, the stock Samsung "My Files" app was properly updated. If you use that app, you can do everything you did pre-KitKat. ES File Explorer is also 4.4.2-functional.

Bottom line: you can still access, copy, delete, etc. your personal music and image files on your SD card. You just may be limited to specific file manager apps. Overall, it turns out not to be a huge issue.

This app also works for transferring files back and forth between internal memory and external SD card after upgrading to KitKat.

https://forums.androidcentral.com/e...apps/details?id=com.rhmsoft.fm&token=7qUuI2lK

 

[MrHost]

What carrier are you with? This is the vzw carriet page. I can only speak for the one I'm running. Vzw just released yes end of last week. So if you are vzw you are running a leak.

Responding to veronica

Posted via Android Central App

 

[MrHost]

Yes, you can keep things wherever you want, but that will limit what 3rd party apps will do with the material. They may be able to access (play, as in PowerAmp playing MP3s) but they may not be able to alter files, write to the directory etc. Are the apps broken? Yes, in a way. Whether you call that the app fault or Google's is another story. How will that work in the future? Well, a good example is MX Player. They immediately released new updates so that you can now delete files from within Mx Player. But I used to also organize and rename files from within MX Player. If there is a way to do that, in the directory where I like to keep videos, they haven't figured out how. Will there be a workaround for that without Google making some amendments to its policies? I dunno.

It only limits apps that are to lazy to follow the rules. Kit kat had been out far longer than when we got the update. They have had well over 6 months to fix the issue.

If this were an all around forced update with no time between public release and the push then I could say google could be at fault.

Just my opinion. If my mechanic tells me my brakes aren't going to work anymore after a certain change. I update my car with newer brakes that will work.

Posted via Android Central App

 

[monsieurms]

What rules would an app have to follow in order to modify files on the SD card in a directory I create, rather than they create? What should MX Player do, for instance, in order to be able to rename files that are in my personal directories not created by MX Player? I'll send them an email and ask why they haven't done it, since they seem to have acted quickly to address other issues.

 

[Richard Shafer]

Re: Kitkat Issue: Can't Write to External SD Card

I have a GS4 on ATT and just upgraded to 4.4.2.I haven't found anything that will allow me to edit or create new text files on my SD card. ES File Explorer will create folders but will not write from the editor into them. I have kept a subdirectory of Notes on my SD card for years and now all I can do is read them. I can't generate new notes or modify the ones that are there. These are just text files!! I've tried the Samsung " My Files" "Total Commander" "Jota Text Editor" and "ES File Commander" and nothing will edit the texts. If someone comes up with an answer other than rooting , please let us know!!

 

[monsieurms]

Re: Kitkat Issue: Can't Write to External SD Card

I have a GS4 on ATT and just upgraded to 4.4.2.I haven't found anything that will allow me to edit or create new text files on my SD card. ES File Explorer will create folders but will not write from the editor into them. I have kept a subdirectory of Notes on my SD card for years and now all I can do is read them. I can't generate new notes or modify the ones that are there. These are just text files!! I've tried the Samsung " My Files" "Total Commander" "Jota Text Editor" and "ES File Commander" and nothing will edit the texts. If someone comes up with an answer other than rooting , please let us know!!

Yep, lotsa stuff doesn't work. Docs to Go--won't save files to the card any more.

Well, one workaround is...transfer them with MY FILES to the internal memory of the phone instead of the SD card...I presume that should work fine. Docs don't take a lot of space.

Another option, if you are keeping zillions of text files as little notes===download and install Evernote. It will likely help organize your note taking!

 

[MrHost]

Re: Kitkat Issue: Can't Write to External SD Card

I have a GS4 on ATT and just upgraded to 4.4.2.I haven't found anything that will allow me to edit or create new text files on my SD card. ES File Explorer will create folders but will not write from the editor into them. I have kept a subdirectory of Notes on my SD card for years and now all I can do is read them. I can't generate new notes or modify the ones that are there. These are just text files!! I've tried the Samsung " My Files" "Total Commander" "Jota Text Editor" and "ES File Commander" and nothing will edit the texts. If someone comes up with an answer other than rooting , please let us know!!

How sew you creating the notes normally. I will try it on mine.

Posted via Android Central App

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

"Who to blame" is a tricky question. There are a few ways to look at it. You could blame Samsung for having the wrong implementation prior to Kit Kat, even though that's what they feel consumers want, or you could blame Google for changing the way SD cards are handled on the platform they created and "control".

The playground belongs to Google, so blaming them for implementing SD cards the way they want seems wrong to me. Samsung was the one going against the recommendation for SD cards. With Kit Kat, they're being forced to play the way Google wants.

The flipside is that Google has been "wishy washy" on SD cards since Honeycomb/ICS. They took away support altogether, then added it back in a more secure way in Kit Kat. There are manufacturers that have attempted to follow the guidelines as best as possible, and it's probably tough to market that in a way that doesn't look bad.

I don't blame Samsung for doing what they felt was best for their customers (although I never agreed with adding them back in after Google removed official support), but they should own up to the fact that they were doing it "wrong" all this time and now they have to do it Google's way or not at all. Also, all of these updates should have been handled better. Even a simple popup explaining that SD card functionality changes drastically and some of your apps might not work the same way would be a good step.

Whatever the case, we can't go back. This will be how it is going forward, and unfortunately there have been some really bad experiences going from 4.3 to 4.4 for devices with SD cards. The kind of bright side is that any device that ships with 4.4 or better won't have these issues since you'll start with the "right" way from the beginning.

Sent from my K00C using Tapatalk

 

[paintdrinkingpete]

"Who to blame" is a tricky question. There are a few ways to look at it. You could blame Samsung for having the wrong implementation prior to Kit Kat, even though that's what they feel consumers want, or you could blame Google for changing the way SD cards are handled on the platform they created and "control".

The playground belongs to Google, so blaming them for implementing SD cards the way they want seems wrong to me. Samsung was the one going against the recommendation for SD cards. With Kit Kat, they're being forced to play the way Google wants.

The flipside is that Google has been "wishy washy" on SD cards since Honeycomb/ICS. They took away support altogether, then added it back in a more secure way in Kit Kat. There are manufacturers that have attempted to follow the guidelines as best as possible, and it's probably tough to market that in a way that doesn't look bad.

I don't blame Samsung for doing what they felt was best for their customers (although I never agreed with adding them back in after Google removed official support), but they should own up to the fact that they were doing it "wrong" all this time and now they have to do it Google's way or not at all. Also, all of these updates should have been handled better. Even a simple popup explaining that SD card functionality changes drastically and some of your apps might not work the same way would be a good step.

Whatever the case, we can't go back. This will be how it is going forward, and unfortunately there have been some really bad experiences going from 4.3 to 4.4 for devices with SD cards. The kind of bright side is that any device that ships with 4.4 or better won't have these issues since you'll start with the "right" way from the beginning.

Sent from my K00C using Tapatalk

All good points.

I think that if you actually understand what Google was trying to achieve with the new KK SD card settings, and more importantly why they did it, it's a bit easier to accept. And let's be fair, these aren't new policies on the handling of external storage, it's just that those policies are now being enforced. Any apps that had already been operating in the scope of the existing guidelines still work just fine.

Frankly, I understand why Google doesn't like SD cards, and I'd be fine if they weren't supported altogether as long as manufacturers accepted that 16GB isn't enough internal storage for most users. If you understand how file systems work, and the limitations of what the removable (SD Card) storage can do within Android, they can still be a great feature to include, but unfortunately the average consumer doesn't want to have to think about where they are storing files, they just want it to work. There's also the issue of salespersons in the stores erroneously telling customers that "it's OK if it's only 16 GB, because you can add an SD card and put all your apps on there!" (which we all know that you can't).

In other words, a big part of the problem is a disconnect between what removable storage can be used for and the customer's expectations.

If our phones came with 100GB of storage, many of us wouldn't care about SD support anymore.

 

[monsieurms]

If our phones came with 100GB of storage, many of us wouldn't care about SD support anymore.

For the majority of people, that's probably true. Why hasn't it happened, though? Cost. Not only are phones with huge internal storage expensive, the hidden cost is that you have to keep buying the same space over and over again every time you upgrade. Backing up is a chore, too.

So, granting that I'm in the minority that is not at all impressed with 100gb storage (I can use that in an eyeblink...), this concept that it's ok to get rid of SD cards if only phone storage were greater will not make any sense until (a) internal storage is huge and (b) ridiculously cheap. I can keep porting my SD card from one phone to another (and have done so). It's bad enough having to pay for a huge phone--but having to throw it away (or give it back to T-Mobile on their upgrade plan) and do it again every 12-18 months,whatever--that's a REALLY, really bad deal.

Hence, there is no realistic situation I can imagine given current facts on the ground in which the lack of an SD card would not be a deal breaker for me in deciding what phone to buy.

 

[Ed Williams2]

My two cents: I've got 32 GB internal and 64GB external. Over 75% of that space contains files. Verizon and Google knew about this issue and did nothing to warn me before "upgrading". Now I've got broken applications but more importantly, I’ve got NO WAY to access the private files that were previously saved in folders created by those apps. Not only has approximately 40GB of data been lost, but I have no identifiable way of sorting through the mess to determine which files and cryptic directories are and are not accessible. They have turned my SD card to a mess of intermingled files I have no way of sorting though. Formatting my whole SD card and starting over from a point over two years ago is NOT acceptable. I've always tried to play by the rules but Version/Google have pushed me to the point to where I have NO option other than to root my phone just to get my data back... I'll be keeping it that way.

Banking apps such as Chase Mobile and other dealing with secure based information have always been able to safeguard their information (as they should be) by placing and/or encrypting their data on the internal storage. If they are not doing so, then shame on them. THEY need to safeguard their information from prying applications. The SD cards should be thought of like thumb drives and my PHONE (aka a hand held computer) should be as free to access it as my home PC.

The real issue (IMHO) is that neither Google nor Version wants you to have "free unlimited storage” , they want you to pay! Google want you to pay to put your data in their cloud and the phone carriers want you to up your data plans and pay to access that same data via increased data rates. It's all about the $$$. Sadly we've yet another open source OS going to the corporate dogs. I wonder if I’ll ever see a time again in my life time where technology gets cheaper over time… it is supposed to but greed is in its way.

Both Verizon and Google have us over a barrel, they know it, and don't care. Time for an iPhone on Virgin mobile? Maybe.

 

[monsieurms]

Not only has approximately 40GB of data been lost,..

What type of files are you talking about?

Data should not be lost...if, at worst case, you put the card in a file reader and plug it into your desktop, you should be able to recover the files, whether .mp3, .doc or whatever. Also, every file manager for the phone that I've tried will at least let you FIND the files, although they may not all access / move/ delete / cut / copy / paste.

It CAN be a chore figuring out where Android puts things, but assuming you have 1 or 2 key apps or photos or whatever, it should be do-able finding the directories by running searches for the files. The more difficult question is where you are going to put them when you find them. There is no real reason to move things like *.mp3s.

If you contact whatever app you are finding suddenly doesn't work, you should be able at least to find out where they put the files and where to move them.

 

[bigredgonzo]

For the majority of people, that's probably true. Why hasn't it happened, though? Cost. Not only are phones with huge internal storage expensive, the hidden cost is that you have to keep buying the same space over and over again every time you upgrade. Backing up is a chore, too.

So, granting that I'm in the minority that is not at all impressed with 100gb storage (I can use that in an eyeblink...), this concept that it's ok to get rid of SD cards if only phone storage were greater will not make any sense until (a) internal storage is huge and (b) ridiculously cheap. I can keep porting my SD card from one phone to another (and have done so). It's bad enough having to pay for a huge phone--but having to throw it away (or give it back to T-Mobile on their upgrade plan) and do it again every 12-18 months,whatever--that's a REALLY, really bad deal.

Hence, there is no realistic situation I can imagine given current facts on the ground in which the lack of an SD card would not be a deal breaker for me in deciding what phone to buy.

Monsieurms,

First off, I agree with you 100%, but there is one glaring concept that you failed to mention. When you place an SD card in a device, it only consumes power when being read from or written too. However, memory is powered all the time. It doesn't matter if how you implement it, it has to have power maintained constantly while the device is on. The only way that I can envision that it doesn't is to build an SD card directly into the phone's circuitry. Which puts us back to where we were to begin with. So overall, getting rid of the SD card and packing enormous amounts of memory into the phone will only cause the batteries to become huge to power it or leave us with phones that have to be plugged in a few times a day to be of any use. I read a thread the a while back where someone took (I don't remember which phone it was) a phone with 16 GB of memory and the same phone with 32 GB of memory and set them up identically and did the exact same thing with them each day. His test showed that the 32GB version required charging more frequently than the 16GB version. I believe that battery life was about 2 hr less on the larger RAM phone. Now take that and imagine 128GB of ram in a phone. We'd be walking around with an extension cord dangling out of our pockets just to make a phone call.

All that said, SD cards are a much more viable option with present technology. As you have stated, the 4.4 update didn't break the SD card, it just enforced Google's concept of security on the card. Unfortunately, devs don't seem to be "jumping on the bandwagon" to fix their apps to actually work with the model. I, like you, am using my SD card just like I was before the update with no noticeable change. I do have one app that now chokes on its data on the SD card, so I move it to internal storage until the dev fixes the issue.

For Ed Williams2,

I hate that you are having issues with your SD card and your data. I do hope that find a resolution soon. One issue I see with your post is that, in this case, it appears as though Verizon really doesn't have anything to do with the SD card changes. I see people with S4s on other carriers with the same issues. All I can suggest is, get on that email and contact the app devs that aren't working correctly and let them know. The reputable ones will work on it.

Here ends my rant,
BigRedGonzo

 

[bluzman]

Re: Kitkat Issue: Can't Write to External SD Card

This app also works for transferring files back and forth between internal memory and external SD card after upgrading to KitKat.

https://forums.androidcentral.com/e...apps/details?id=com.rhmsoft.fm&token=2fJVfuKe

This was the good news. The bad news is that my long-time favorite App Backup & Restore (https://forums.androidcentral.com/e...ils?id=mobi.infolife.appbackup&token=_jFJtJcU) no longer can see my external SD card. Play Store comments confirm its KitKat that's the culprit. Hopefully the developer will update with a work around. Until then, all my app backups go to a folder in internal memory. Then I use the File Manager app (remember the "good news"?) to move them to my external SD card. Sigh...