Boston Marathon bombing...

[geekymcfly]

Another thing:

We don't train to kill innocent people. The terrorists do. Can anyone (including them, themselves) deny that? No.

Have you experienced it? Or did you forget about the few seeds who committed revenge murder. Or the drone strikes that killed bbc reporters? I guess it's even safe to waterboard. Or humiliate prisoners of war. Anyways as a former soldier with experience fighting the Republican Guard and occupying a nation. I understand why they do what they do. You just don't have to kill innocent people, you just have to treat them so bad they'll fight for their freedom. The US does kill innocent people whether or not it trains for it or it doesn't. This country isn't heaven sent. It's just as cruel as the others. Look how it treats it own. Look at the black man. Has he ever received any kind of justice no. In Oakland California it's like the police are trained to kill us. Or is that different?


TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

 

[Jennifer Stough]

Look at the black man. Has he ever received any kind of justice no. In Oakland California it's like the police are trained to kill us. Or is that different?


TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

"the black man" has every right and oppourtunity available to "the white man", it just depends on what they do with it. I am by no means a racist, with a mixed neice and nephew I hold very dear, but think on it for a minute. Black people fought so hard for the right of equal education, yet if you walk into a school and assess the black population there, atleast 50% do not speak proper English, show the desire to learn, nor display respect to their teachers or those around them. (Note: I am very aware there are whites who are just as bad.) It may have been different back in the day, but from someone who has graduated recently in the last three years, they are using this excuse of being black to become products of their enviorments. These children are the future face of your race and they disrepect what your forefathers fought so hard to procure. I think bill Cosby says it best in this speech. http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/cosby.asp



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[geekymcfly]

"the black man" has every right and oppourtunity available to "the white man", it just depends on what they do with it. I am by no means a racist, with a mixed neice and nephew I hold very dear, but think on it for a minute. Black people fought so hard for the right of equal education, yet if you walk into a school and assess the black population there, atleast 50% do not speak proper English, show the desire to learn, nor display respect to their teachers or those around them. (Note: I am very aware there are whites who are just as bad.) It may have been different back in the day, but from someone who has graduated recently in the last three years, they are using this excuse of being black to become products of their enviorments. These children are the future face of your race and they disrepect what your forefathers fought so hard to procure. I think bill Cosby says it best in this speech. http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/cosby.asp



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I understand what you are saying but you have to understand the bigger picture. Which I really don't think you can at this moment. You're looking at what is shown but I guarantee if you looked deeper you would understand why.

But I wanted to clarify that some are trained to kill. If you teach someone that a race of people manufacturers bombs then it's easier to use that against them. Teach a nation that the race of people are nothing more than a buffoon then that's what you'll see them as.

TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

 

[Jennifer Stough]

I understand what you are saying but you have to understand the bigger picture. Which I really don't think you can at this moment. You're looking at what is shown but I guarantee if you looked deeper you would understand why

TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

What bigger picture or deeper facts do I need to see? Being a minority doesn't mean you have to subject yourself to the image that others expect. Nor does being poor or living in a low income part of town mean that you have to become a product of your enviorment. Even if you are ostracized and expected to fail, it does not mean that you have to. I am by all technicalities of the word, a minority. I am a state and federally recognized Cherokee, who were also slaves and had to fight for equal rights. I came from a divorced family with an abused mother and a father too hyped on drugs to care about us. My mother worked three jobs, and went to school trying to better herself. We lived in the slums of Memphis, TN, with violence all around us. But she still taught me the importance of work ethic, education, and respect for others. Not once did she resort to the welfare or food stamps. My sister was in a gang and is serving life in prison with no chance of parol. But does that mean that I should have chosen to slack off and follow the footsteps of those around me, because that's what everyone else expected of me? Because my mom didn't have enough money to give us the life she wanted, or because I came from a broken family? No. I took the enviorment I grew up with and changed it. I swore I would never allow my children to go through what I have. And he hasn't. I didn't allow myself to become a product of my enviorment. I fought, and I studied, and I excelled in school. No one forces a gun into the hands of these children, or forces them to sell or do drugs. Even with peer pressure, they ultimately make the decision for themselves. Because its the easy way to make money or feel powerful. Regardless of the hardships they have against them for their race, or their financial or family situation, they make the decision of who they want to be and what they will make of themselves.

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[Jennifer Stough]

My mother is now happily remarried, raising my neice and nephew with the correct morals my sister probably would have never provided, and is a registered nurse. She and her husband combined are pulling in over 120k a year. Not because anyone handed her a golden ticket for being "white" or because it was any easier on her, but because she worked her *** off to better herself for her children and for herself

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[geekymcfly]

My mother is now happily remarried, raising my neice and nephew with the correct morals my sister probably would have never provided, and is a registered nurse. She and her husband combined are pulling in over 120k a year. Not because anyone handed her a golden ticket for being "white" or because it was any easier on her, but because she worked her *** off to better herself for her children and for herself

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Nothing against your family story but honestly you have to think about the other picture. Not how it's easy for people to succeed in this world by assimilating to what's told is right. But back to the subject at hand. Innocent people are casualties of war. the wars that our governments start like i stated above but the wars that they ignorantly have to jump into because of the oppression that they have to face. This world uses issues to it's advantage and all that I'm saying is that this government shouldn't shame the oppressed and clean it's hand of it's dirt when things happen like Boston. Those ignorant people who kill like the brothers based off of religion and someones promise is utterly stupid. But until this world recognizes its corrupt issues and come together then boston, 9/11, police brutality, Syria (btw how do you think it will turn out, even if Assad is removed) Iran, North Korea will always happen.

Here's a nice piece for you. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/04/05/oakland-teen-mistakenly-shot-by-police-retains-lawyer/
TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

 

[llamabreath]

Have you experienced it? ....... Look at the black man.....

Have I ever experienced what?

And now you're trying to steer this towards the black man's plight?
My wife is black. She has a very respected and well-paying career, never had a problem getting a good meaningful job. You know why (and don't you dare say affirmative action)?

Because she's well educated, has a Bachelor's degree, carries herself with self-respect and has a great personality (no, she's not reading this ).

Her son, on the other hand (my stepson), carries himself like a bum. He just turned 18 and nobody can tell him ANYthing. He sleeps all day and watches TV all night, while eating everything in the fridge. When he does venture outside, his pants hang halfway down to his knees. He has no respect for anyone and will gladly tell you this. He also thinks that he doesn't need to go looking for a job, because the job will come looking for him. He'll curse me out, then stuff his face with the groceries and food that I (not his father) bought for him.

I took his bedroom door off its hinges because we were sick of him slamming it every time he got angry. The following day, I came home to my bedroom door kicked in. He then proudly stated, "Now you have no door either."

Do you think whitey is holding him down? Or doesn't his attitude just plain suck.

 

[Jennifer Stough]

Here's a nice piece for you. http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2013/04/05/oakland-teen-mistakenly-shot-by-police-retains-lawyer/
TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

This was the officers negligence, the fact that the boy was black has nothing to do with his being shot. There have been other races shot and killed by negligent police officers who use deadly force when none is required. Its a shame, though, and I hope the officer loses his job as well as faces charges for assault with a deadly weapon and child abuse and or endangerment.


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[geekymcfly]

In Oakland California it is.

TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

 

[geekymcfly]

Have I ever experienced what?

And now you're trying to steer this towards the black man's plight?
My wife is black. She has a very respected and well-paying career, never had a problem getting a good meaningful job. You know why (and don't you dare say affirmative action)?

Because she's well educated, has a Bachelor's degree, carries herself with self-respect and has a great personality (no, she's not reading this ).

Her son, on the other hand (my stepson), carries himself like a bum. He just turned 18 and nobody can tell him ANYthing. He sleeps all day and watches TV all night, while eating everything in the fridge. When he does venture outside, his pants hang halfway down to his knees. He has no respect for anyone and will gladly tell you this. He also thinks that he doesn't need to go looking for a job, because the job will come looking for him. He'll curse me out, then stuff his face with the groceries and food that I (not his father) bought for him.

I took his bedroom door off its hinges because we were sick of him slamming it every time he got angry. The following day, I came home to my bedroom door kicked in. He then proudly stated, "Now you have no door either."

Do you think whitey is holding him down? Or doesn't his attitude just plain suck.

Read #23 again and again until you understand it. What I referred to was suggesting that the black man has never received justice. So how can you say that Americans were never trained to kill innocent people. We are shot down like dogs and it's alright. I don't see Obama or any other war mongering politician trying to stop that. Drugs & guns were given to us we didn't create it. But im not asking anything from anyone. I just don't agree with your statement on how Americans don't kill innocents.

TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

 

[llamabreath]

Read #23 again and again until you understand it. What I referred to was suggesting that the black man has never received justice. So how can you say that Americans were never trained to kill innocent people. We are shot down like dogs and it's alright. I don't see Obama or any other war mongering politician trying to stop that. Drugs & guns were given to us we didn't create it. But im not asking anything from anyone. I just don't agree with your statement on how Americans don't kill innocents.


TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

Hmmm, my father was a cop in NYC for twenty years. He never mentioned to me that he was trained to kill innocent black men. This is quite disconcerting, as I thought he'd told me everything.

How come black people shooting down black people like dogs in Chicago is never brought up in discussions like yours? Or maybe that just passes for normal.

 

[Jennifer Stough]

Read #23 again and again until you understand it. What I referred to was suggesting that the black man has never received justice. So how can you say that Americans were never trained to kill innocent people. We are shot down like dogs and it's alright. I don't see Obama or any other war mongering politician trying to stop that. Drugs & guns were given to us we didn't create it. But im not asking anything from anyone. I just don't agree with your statement on how Americans don't kill innocents.

TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

No one ever recieves justice. Justice = a bullsnarkle ideology based loosely on revenge. Nothing violent or unjust can be justified. Did the Jews get justification for the mass genocide of their race? Did the cherokees get justice for the forceful removal of their families from their land and the attempted genocide of their race? Thats like asking for a reason. Why did you kill thousands of innocent people, why did you take children from their mother's and families from their birthland. Why? Because they were powerful enough and had the means to do it. Black men never recieved justice? They won their war. They recieved the rights that were witheld from them. There are grants and programs set up to help the black, for being exactly that. That is as much justice as one can or will recieve. No, they can't take back the years that they were treated like vermin. But they were given the means to establish themselves and prove they are not. The blacks in their ghettos with drugs and guns and gangs and their "ebonics" that choose not to take advantage of the rights thier forefathers fought for, they are the ones to blame for the public image of the African American race as a whole. Now there is more black on black crime than ever before, but that's ok, right? As long as its not white on black crime, because then its a hate crime.

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[Jennifer Stough]

And as for Americans being trained to kill innocents, they are not. They are trained to kill foreign and domestic enemies. What they choose to do with that training however, is on them.

 

[geekymcfly]

Hmmm, my father was a cop in NYC for twenty years. He never mentioned to me that he was trained to kill innocent black men. This is quite disconcerting, as I thought he'd told me everything.

How come black people shooting down black people like dogs in Chicago is never brought up in discussions like yours? Or maybe that just passes for normal.

Oh i could talk about it. But im really trying to stick to the original thread. Well I have a different view of cops as you do. I was one of those unfortunate kids who grew up in the ghettos of san Francisco and I made it out but before I left I was reminded exactly who I was by the SFPD. But that's a whole different story but if we can stay on subject then you'll understand how I feel about the Boston bombers. I disagree that people had to die and get hurt because of our country's role in the never ending issue with islam. Those people didn't deserve any of that and I'm saying no one deserves that. But I won't sit here and say the good ol American is better than anyone else on this planet. I only brought up blacks because we don't get treated any better than those terrorists. Racism and ignorance is still and will always be part of this country. I brought up the link with the oakland teen because he was innocent but perceived to be guilty by a trained officer of the law. Sean Bell going to his wedding shot dead by a trained officer of the law. Oscar grant shot dead while handcuffed by a trained officer of the law. Trayvon Martin shot dead for looking suspicious well by George Zimmerman. The list can go on and it doesn't stop there. How about the Angela Davis, mumia abu jamal, the black panthers, Leonard peltier, the American Indian movement. Not one single soul deserves to die unexpectedly by the hand of another man. Let's leave it at that

Btw. Mentioned Mumia, Leonard & Angela just to prove the government's abuse of power to manipulate the masses. Also wanted to state why isn't it a crime to belong to the terroristic group the Ku Klux Klan or the neo nazi but it is for radical Islamic groups or people empowerment groups.

TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

 

[llamabreath]

Oh i could talk about it. But im really trying to stick to the original thread. Well I have a different view of cops as you do. I was one of those unfortunate kids who grew up in the ghettos of san Francisco and I made it out but before I left I was reminded exactly who I was by the SFPD. But that's a whole different story but if we can stay on subject then you'll understand how I feel about the Boston bombers. I disagree that people had to die and get hurt because of our country's role in the never ending issue with islam. Those people didn't deserve any of that and I'm saying no one deserves that. But I won't sit here and say the good ol American is better than anyone else on this planet. I only brought up blacks because we don't get treated any better than those terrorists. Racism and ignorance is still and will always be part of this country. I brought up the link with the oakland teen because he was innocent but perceived to be guilty by a trained officer of the law. Sean Bell going to his wedding shot dead by a trained officer of the law. Oscar grant shot dead while handcuffed by a trained officer of the law. Trayvon Martin shot dead for looking suspicious well by George Zimmerman. The list can go on and it doesn't stop there. How about the Angela Davis, mumia abu jamal, the black panthers, Leonard peltier, the American Indian movement. Not one single soul deserves to die unexpectedly by the hand of another man. Let's leave it at that

TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

Just one correction:

Sean Bell was NOT on his way to his wedding (what weddings do you know of that start at 3 in the morning?).

He was leaving a strip club (one that I've been to), shot by undercover officers that identified themselves before shooting.

His wedding was supposed to have been the next day.

Facts DO add context.

 

[jdbii]

Interesting thread. Jen. S. and llama., you have interesting things to say, and good for you Jennifer coming from such a difficult situation and making such a success of yourself. I am genuinely happy for you and yours. I happen to disagree with most of what the two of you are writing, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Llama, I am sorry that you have such a slacker step-son. You are a good man for supporting him and hopefully he'll grow out of it.

The one point that I kind of felt like you missed is the fact the USA does in fact kill innocents. I am not suggesting you are saying otherwise, denying, or condoning, but the fact of the matter is US military action kills women, children, infirm, old, and non-combatants all the time and we use a euphemism called "collateral damage" when in fact people who have nothing to do with the fight are paying the ultimate sacrifice. The difference between "training to kill" and "killing by collateral damage" become blurry in my opinion. It doesn't sit well with me. The USA is better than this.

 

[geekymcfly]

Forgot to mention what's the difference between the Boston bombing and the bombing of MOVE headquarters in Philadelphia? Don't know about it google it

TMO GS3 * NEXUS 7

 

[Jennifer Stough]

Interesting thread. Jen. S. and llama., you have interesting things to say, and good for you Jennifer coming from such a difficult situation and making such a success of yourself. I am genuinely happy for you and yours. I happen to disagree with most of what the two of you are writing, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Llama, I am sorry that you have such a slacker step-son. You are a good man for supporting him and hopefully he'll grow out of it.

The one point that I kind of felt like you missed is the fact the USA does in fact kill innocents. I am not suggesting you are saying otherwise, denying, or condoning, but the fact of the matter is US military action kills women, children, infirm, old, and non-combatants all the time and we use a euphemism called "collateral damage" when in fact people who have nothing to do with the fight are paying the ultimate sacrifice. The difference between "training to kill" and "killing by collateral damage" become blurry in my opinion. It doesn't sit well with me. The USA is better than this.

It is perfectly ok for you to have your opinion, and thank you for your nice words. I know that there are soldiers who have killed innocents, most recently a soldier from ft. Carson involving a dozen or so innocent afghanistanians. And that there are innocents killed indirectly through certain actions and called collateral damage, neither of which I agree with. But my husband, a medic in the us. Army, although trained to kill, is not trained to kill innocent people. He is trained and sworn to kill enemies, foreign or domestic. That was my only point.

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[jdbii]

It is perfectly ok for you to have your opinion, and thank you for your nice words. I know that there are soldiers who have killed innocents, most recently a soldier from ft. Carson involving a dozen or so innocent afghanistanians. And that there are innocents killed indirectly through certain actions and called collateral damage, neither of which I agree with. But my husband, a medic in the us. Army, although trained to kill, is not trained to kill innocent people. He is trained and sworn to kill enemies, foreign or domestic. That was my only point.

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Okay, fair enough. You made yourself abundantly clear, and I agree that we don't train to kill civilians. It is an important distinction. Like your husband, I was in the service too. I didn't have the distinction of being a medic, or corpseman, but was just a regular swabbie.

 

[llamabreath]

.... but the difference between "training to kill" and "killing by collateral damage" become blurry in my opinion. It doesn't sit well with me. The USA is better than this.

I think the difference between training to kill innocents and killing innocents by collateral damage is HUGE.

Oh, and thx for the kind words as well.