Big difference between Android Central and iMore

[Ry]

I believe we can all say we all want quick, prompt updates, no?

You can say it for yourself. I personally want quick security updates. They are included in system updates so I end up getting it all. But security updates? That's what I want.

Regular folks are less likely to care as long as their core apps work (Facebook, YouTube, Pandora, Instagram, Snapchat, Netflix, Pinterest, Shazam, Kik, WhatsApp, etc.).

 

[UJ95x]

Why do you consider a phone from a year ago analogous to a phone just released?


I don't think I've seen a phone or tablet in 2014 that doesn't have hangouts installed.

When did I say that the old Moto X was the same as the new one?

Regardless of whether or not it's installed, the majority of people do not use it. On iOS, everyone uses iMessage because it's built into the messaging app. So if I own an iOS device, and I don't have cell service, I can still text ANYONE with an iOS device. If I have no cell service with an Android, I can only text those who also have Hangouts.

 

[JeffDenver]

When did I say that the old Moto X was the same as the new one?

Why were you talking about the new one at all?

Explain to me why you think that a nexus from a year ago should be compared to a Moto X just released when it comes to price.

Regardless of whether or not it's installed, the majority of people do not use it. On iOS, everyone uses iMessage because it's built into the messaging app. So if I own an iOS device, and I don't have cell service, I can still text ANYONE with an iOS device. If I have no cell service with an Android, I can only text those who also have Hangouts.

That is no longer true. Hangouts now allows wifi calling on any device. I just answered an SMS from my mom on my PC browser. My reply was also SMS.

 

[Ry]

No.

Because the touchwiz launcher is not the reason Touchwiz is considered bloat.

Let me ask you this...is the fact that you can't uninstall facebook from iOS's share menu evidence that the iPhone has bloat?

Why is TouchWiz considered bloat?

Can Google have any bloat on an Android device?

Nothing on a out of the box iOS device is bloat because that's the way iOS was designed. It's not an open platform that companies can change.

 

[UJ95x]

Why were you talking about the new one at all?

Because planoman was talking about the prices of unlocked devices. Of all of this year's flagships that have been released, none are less than $500 unlocked (Not counting OPO because the release of that device was appalling.)

That is no longer true. Hangouts now allows wifi calling on any device. I just answered an SMS from my mom on my PC browser. My reply was also SMS.

Are you both using Hangouts for that?

 

[UJ95x]

Why is TouchWiz considered bloat?

They offer services that are already available with Google services (which is technically itself).
Apple's services aren't replacing anything else that is available in the OS by default.

 

[JeffDenver]

Why is TouchWiz considered bloat?

Because you cannot uninstall or disable it, and it eats processor cycles in the background even if you install something over it. Installing a new launcher does not remove touchwiz from RAM, even if you are not using the touchwiz launcher.

Can Google have any bloat on an Android device?

IMO, no. And I am guessing most people will agree. Google apps are analogous to stock Apple apps.

I do understand your AOSP argument. I just don't agree that it is relevant.

Nothing on a out of the box iOS device is bloat because that's the way iOS was designed.

So it is basically semantics. iOS was not designed around Facebook...they added Facebook functionality. Facebook is something completely separate from iOS.

It's not an open platform that companies can change.

Thats actually going to be changing in iOS8, when they add their version of the Share menu.

 

[JeffDenver]

Because planoman was talking about the prices of unlocked devices. Of all of this year's flagships that have been released, none are less than $500 unlocked (Not counting OPO because the release of that device was appalling.)

Technically, the Nexus is not a 2014 Flagship.

The 2014 Moto X is technically under $500. Amazon.com: Motorola Moto X - 16GB, Unlocked Phone - US Warranty - White: Cell Phones & Accessories

Same with the G3 - Amazon.com: LG G3 D855 16GB Metallic Black Factory Unlocked 4G 3G 2G 2G GSM 850/900/1800/1900 & 850(B5)/ 900(B8)/ 1900(B2)/ 2100(B1) & LTE 800(B20)/ 1800(B3)/ 2600(B7): Cell Phones & Accessories

Are you both using Hangouts for that?

Yes.

 

[Ry]

Because you cannot uninstall or disable it, and it eats processor cycles in the background even if you install something over it. Installing a new launcher does not remove touchwiz from RAM, even if you are not using the touchwiz launcher.

You can't disable it because it's more than just a skin. Calling it a skin is a mistake - it goes deeper than that. TouchWiz is Samsung's Android, just like Nexus is Google's Android.

And disable in favor of what? Google Now Launcher? The AOSP notification shade? Launcher3? The AOSP settings menu?

If we want to talk about "real" bloat - it's really just the carrier add-ons, not TouchWiz, not Sense, not MotoBlur.

 

[UJ95x]

Technically, the Nexus is not a 2014 Flagship.

Not technically. It isn't a 2014 flagship. The Nexus X/6 or whatever it's called will be obviously, but that will be the only one outside of the OPO that is less than $500.

The 2014 Moto X is technically under $500

That's the 2013 Moto X

Yes.

Well there you, it's still Hangouts to Hangouts. You can't text every Android user from a desktop though, because not everyone uses Hangouts on Android. You can text any iOS user from a desktop using iMessage.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

Because you cannot uninstall or disable it, and it eats processor cycles in the background even if you install something over it. Installing a new launcher does not remove touchwiz from RAM, even if you are not using the touchwiz launcher.


IMO, no. And I am guessing most people will agree. Google apps are analogous to stock Apple apps.

I do understand your AOSP argument. I just don't agree that it is relevant.


So it is basically semantics. iOS was not designed around Facebook...they added Facebook functionality. Facebook is something completely separate from iOS.


Thats actually going to be changing in iOS8, when they add their version of the Share menu.

No. No. No. That will not make it open. Not at all. Not even close. The framework of the OS will not be able to be modified at all by anyone. The OS will not be able to be built from source and ran on any compatible hardware.

 

[JeffDenver]

Well there you, it's still Hangouts to Hangouts.

Um...it's tagged as SMS, not hangouts. It did not arrive as a hangouts message.

 

[JeffDenver]

You can't disable it because it's more than just a skin. Calling it a skin is a mistake - it goes deeper than that.

Again, it's semantics. Most people would consider it a skin. Most people are not going to see Google and Android as separate things.

To most people, Google is the default...bloat is what is added to it.

 

[UJ95x]

Um...it's tagged as SMS, not hangouts. It did not arrive as a hangouts message.

No, but you are both using Hangouts. I was just informed that you can now use SMS from the desktop if you are using the Hangouts extension, after the recent update that added Google voice into Hangouts. But that still requires that you use Hangouts. If your SMS client is Handcent, Textra, ChompSMS, etc. you still can't text other Android users from the desktop.

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

Again, it's semantics. Most people would consider it a skin. Most people are not going to see Google and Android as separate things.

To most people, Google is the default...bloat is what is added to it.

Most people don't see TouchWiz as Android. Most people see whatever comes on their phone as "stock" and nothing is bloat to them, even the carrier stuff.

That's how the 99% of consumers that aren't techie see their phones. What it comes with is stock and not bloat.

 

[Ry]

Again, it's semantics. Most people would consider it a skin. Most people are not going to see Google and Android as separate things.

To most people, Google is the default...bloat is what is added to it.

I could argue that most people are going to see Android as Samsung's vision of Android because they have shipped and sold the most devices running Android.

 

[JeffDenver]

I'd argue that most people are going to see Android as Samsung's vision of Android because they have shipped and sold the most devices running Android.

I agree. Thats why I go out of my way to correct them. A change in perception has gotta start somewhere amirite?

 

[Ry]

Most people don't see TouchWiz as Android. Most people see whatever comes on their phone as "stock" and nothing is bloat to them, even the carrier stuff.

That's how the 99% of consumers that aren't techie see their phones. What it comes with is stock and not bloat.

Oh how true. :/

 

[Kevin OQuinn]

I agree. Thats why I go out of my way to correct them. A change in perception has gotta start somewhere amirite?

It's important to note that perception, in this case, is not reality though. There is what is technically accurate, and what people perceive as accurate. IMO it's important to know and understand both.

 

[LeoRex]

TouchWiz is Samsung's Android, just like Nexus is Google's Android.

But 'Google's Android' doesn't include major UI framework overhauls and modifications to near every element. It's a bunch of stuff you can get from the play store.

You can take a Nexus and, with just root access, roll back everything Google included and make it straight AOSP. You CAN'T do that with touchwiz, or sense... Their changes are compiled into Android, overwriting countless files with their own code. And the more they change, the worse off the end result. THAT'S bloat.

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