hi-fi amp on headphone jack

[freedomx20a]

This may sound dumb but would the amp work for Bluetooth headset like jaybird x2?

If I get the 10 one day i wanna see if i can use my good headphone or i have to buy a plug in sennheiser

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[thejesse]

No, Bluetooth transmits audio digitally so your headphones have their own DAC to convert the signal. The only way to take advantage of the DAC on the phone is with wired headphones.

 

[B0WIE]

No, Bluetooth transmits audio digitally so your headphones have their own DAC to convert the signal. The only way to take advantage of the DAC on the phone is with wired headphones.

^This.
As Jesse mentioned, you have to rely on the built-in DAC in the bluetooth phones and I'd venture to guess that it's unlikely that the built-in DAC on the jaybird is going to be as good as that on the 10 (coupled with the fact that bluetooth audio typically doesn't sound as good as hardwired digital) so I'd consider getting some decent buds or cans if you really enjoy music and want to take full advantage of the 10's audio.

I plan on using the 1/8" jack in my car instead of bluetooth because I think the 10's DAC will likely sound good enough to be worth the effort of plugging and unplugging a physical cable every time. So far, every review I've seen that has mentioned the 10's headphone jack has said it's best in class (though a lot of them suspiciously avoid that subject, lol)..

 

[thejesse]

As near as I can tell, the DAC and headphone amp in the 10 are the same as the A9. Anyone have a reason to believe otherwise?

 

[B0WIE]

As near as I can tell, the DAC and headphone amp in the 10 are the same as the A9. Anyone have a reason to believe otherwise?

There's mention here about HTC working w/ Qualcom to improve the audio path (which I'm assuming was done around the new chip) and there's also their "new high performance headset amplifier" which, as HTC advertises it, has higher power to drive full sized headphones (something I'm really looking forward to as I own some hungry Beyerdynamic 600ohm cans and smartphones just can't push the low end). I believe it's rated at 1v.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

As near as I can tell, the DAC and headphone amp in the 10 are the same as the A9. Anyone have a reason to believe otherwise?

The 10 uses the onboard DSP and DAC of the Snapdragon 820 (The same horrible audio hardware the US SG7 and G5 use) with a dedicated amplifier.

I'm not sure any amount of signal processing and tuning can save it. I fully expect a loud and muddy mess.

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[freedomx20a]

So the 24bit hi res DAC can't send via Bluetooth?

I'll just buy some good sennhiesers plug in and call it a day.

Does 24bit up scale work through Bluetooth? Forget the amp

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[B0WIE]

The 10 uses the onboard DSP and DAC of the Snapdragon 820 (The same horrible audio hardware the US SG7 and G5 use) with a dedicated amplifier.

I'm not sure any amount of signal processing and tuning can save it. I fully expect a loud and muddy mess.

Posted via the Android Central App

I'm already seeing reviews saying it's much clearer than the S7. Digital to analog conversion is about much more than just the chip.

 

[B0WIE]

So the 24bit hi res DAC can't send via Bluetooth?

I'll just buy some good sennhiesers plug in and call it a day.

Does 24bit up scale work through Bluetooth? Forget the amp

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No, because Bluetooth is digital and must be converted at the headphone.
The quality will be limited to what the bluetooth stream and/or the device are capable of. It won't travel through the 10's DAC because there would be a redundancy in going from digital to analog, back to digital and analog again.

 

[electriclarryland]

Speaking of bluetooth, does the HTC Ten have the aptX codec in it's bluetooth stream, as the M8 & M9 did?

 

[thejesse]

The 10 uses the onboard DSP and DAC of the Snapdragon 820 (The same horrible audio hardware the US SG7 and G5 use) with a dedicated amplifier.

I'm not sure any amount of signal processing and tuning can save it. I fully expect a loud and muddy mess.

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Good stuff, Jerry. So all that talk of a great DAC is just bloviating. Thanks, HTC marketing.
Is the a9 DAC just built into the snapdragon 617 too?

 

[freedomx20a]

Good stuff, Jerry. So all that talk of a great DAC is just bloviating. Thanks, HTC marketing.
Is the a9 DAC just built into the snapdragon 617 too?

Don't think that is true don't worry

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[thisisjason]

Don't think that is true don't worry

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Why don't you think it's true? That's the set-up HTC has been using for years on the One series. Onboard Snapdragon DAC + dedicated amp. There's no reason to think they've changed that for the HTC 10. If they did, they would have announced the make of the DAC

 

[thejesse]

Why don't you think it's true? That's the set-up HTC has been using for years on the One series. Onboard Snapdragon DAC + dedicated amp. There's no reason to think they've changed that for the HTC 10. If they did, they would have announced the make of the DAC

So the differentiator is the amp, not the DAC?

 

[thisisjason]

So the differentiator is the amp, not the DAC?

That's HTC's strategy at least. HTC puts stronger headphone amps in their phones than most smartphone companies. It's good, but the ideal solution would be a better amp AND a better DAC. That's where LG got it right with the V10, it has an amp and dac from ESS, which theoretically is superior to what HTC does (I say theoretically because implementation matters, which complicates things). I haven't heard the 10 (or the A9), but the V10 stomps any of HTC's previous phones.

There are positive reviews out there for the HTC 10 though, even in comparison with the V10, so maybe Qualcomm really has improved the Snapdragon DAC enough where you just need to add a better amp and some processing tweaks. Most reviews are saying the G5 doesn't sound very good without the module, but maybe the Snapdragon amp is the bottleneck. I think that's the big question at this point.

 

[B0WIE]

Good stuff, Jerry. So all that talk of a great DAC is just bloviating. Thanks, HTC marketing.
Is the a9 DAC just built into the snapdragon 617 too?

He misunderstands the the actual process by which the digital signal makes it to the actual analog output. As I said, the audio quality is not in the DAC alone. I work in professional audio and one of the finest DACs available was made about 12 years ago. Despite better chips being available, the implementation of the analog circuitry is crucial. Many DAC units use the exact same chips (which are relatively cheap) but the difference in quality can be astounding, as well can the price.

In 2016, 26/96 DAC chips are quite basic tech. The idea that we need something more advanced or special branded because the Samsung sounds bad and uses the same chip is a misunderstanding of the audio process. The 10 and the G5 spec very different in terms of audio, despite using the same processor. What HTC does with the analog portion is going to dictate the quality.

That's HTC's strategy at least. HTC puts stronger headphone amps in their phones than most smartphone companies. It's good, but the ideal solution would be a better amp AND a better DAC. That's where LG got it right with the V10, it has an amp and dac from ESS, which theoretically is superior to what HTC does (I say theoretically because implementation matters, which complicates things). I haven't heard the 10 (or the A9), but the V10 stomps any of HTC's previous phones.

There are positive reviews out there for the HTC 10 though, even in comparison with the V10, so maybe Qualcomm really has improved the Snapdragon DAC enough where you just need to add a better amp and some processing tweaks. Most reviews are saying the G5 doesn't sound very good without the module, but maybe the Snapdragon amp is the bottleneck. I think that's the big question at this point.

I've seen measurement tests of the 10 vs the G5 and the V10. The HTC 10 and the V10 best the G5 easily. The HTC 10 specs pretty much in-line with the V10, even beating it slightly in some areas.

 

[thisisjason]

He misunderstands the the actual process by which the digital signal makes it to the actual analog output. As I said, the audio quality is not in the DAC alone. I work in professional audio and one of the finest DACs available was made about 12 years ago. Despite better chips being available, the implementation of the analog circuitry is crucial. Many DAC units use the exact same chips (which are relatively cheap) but the difference in quality can be astounding, as well can the price.

In 2016, 26/96 DAC chips are quite basic tech. The idea that we need something more advanced or special branded because the Samsung sounds bad and uses the same chip is a misunderstanding of the audio process. The 10 and the G5 spec very different in terms of audio, despite using the same processor. What HTC does with the analog portion is going to dictate the quality.



I've seen measurement tests of the 10 vs the G5 and the V10. The HTC 10 and the V10 best the G5 easily. The HTC 10 specs pretty much in-line with the V10, even beating it slightly in some areas.

It should be impressive then, and a step up from their previous phones. I do think that as a long as a DAC isn't doing anything obviously wrong, like introducing a lot of distortion, then the quality of the amp is more important.

 

[Jerry Hildenbrand]

He misunderstands the the actual process by which the digital signal makes it to the actual analog output.

No, I don't misunderstand anything. 8 years of engineering school and 20 years of hands-on employment, including time in an R&D lab designing circuitry and equipment using audio signals to determine density of solid objects with an accuracy of +2/-2% tends to give a person a bit of understanding how the hardware itself, and software that drives it, works. In short, I'm one of the many people who can design and build the equipment you're using when you work with Pro audio.

You can't produce an analog signal that's superior to the source. What you can do is try to mitigate the crosstalk and distortion through software and amplification. I have no idea who HTC commissioned to tune the audio, but I will assume it isn't a company who has found a way to overcome physics and perform magic.

You feel free to believe what you want to believe, while I'll remain skeptical wait until I can test it myself.

 

[B0WIE]

No, I don't misunderstand anything. 8 years of engineering school and 20 years of hands-on employment, including time in an R&D lab designing circuitry and equipment using audio signals to determine density of solid objects with an accuracy of +2/-2% tends to give a person a bit of understanding how the hardware itself, and software that drives it, works. In short, I'm one of the many people who can design and build the equipment you're using when you work with Pro audio.

You can't produce an analog signal that's superior to the source. What you can do is try to mitigate the crosstalk and distortion through software and amplification. I have no idea who HTC commissioned to tune the audio, but I will assume it isn't a company who has found a way to overcome physics and perform magic.

You feel free to believe what you want to believe, while I'll remain skeptical wait until I can test it myself.

Sorry if I offended but I didn't know how else to take the statements made. If you're aware of the bold, and it's significance in relation to how the S7 and 10 differ, then I don't understand why you would choose to say, "I'm not sure any amount of signal processing and tuning can save it. I fully expect a loud and muddy mess."
It doesn't take a lot of processing to make audio sound good. It sometimes takes less processing, and it's already been stated that HTC has taken a minimalist process here (video link above).

I never said anything about audio sounding better than it's source so I'm not sure why that was brought up. While on the subject though, we don't hear digital audio. It does not exist as "sound". The audio we hear is invariably subject to the conversion process and the hardware which amplifies the analog signal and those are the difference we're looking at here. As I said, the DAC is just once link in the chain.


To keep this from becoming an open-ended argument I will agree that we should all hear it ourselves and make judgements thusly.

 

[freedomx20a]

It will capture 24-bit audio, it will upscale to 24-bit, with a high-quality DAC, as well as featuring a more powerful*headphone*amp, that will drive higher-quality, more demanding,headphones.*

So all 820's have the 24 bit upscale dac?

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