Ultrapixel Camera Question

[mstrblueskys]

If I am understanding this right, the Ultrapixel cam is a 4MP shooter with incredible enhancements on the board. With that understanding, pictures should be smaller in data size, take up less room on the phone, and be less data-intensive to upload than an 8MP or 13MP cam.

Do I have that correct? I remember one statement about the Ultrapixel camera being essentially a 13 MP camera arranged differently, but I think the understanding of the pictures is more complete now.

 

[uh60james]

Disclaimer: I am totally guessing

In theory I would say yes, they should be smaller. The pixel size is bigger though, HTC's ultrapixel is 2.0 micrometers vs the 1.4 micrometers of a standard picture. Based on pixel size a picture taken with the One might (might because I really have no idea) be about 30% smaller than a picture taken with say an SIII, assuming they are both shot at max resolution. Hopefully somebody with a One can chime in more on this subject.

 

[xtn]

Pixel size of the sensor does not affect the output/fished size of the picture taken.

4mp at 16:9 ratio, as in the ONE, ought to output a picture that is 2,666 x 1,500 pixels, or something like that.

13mp at 4:3 ratio, as in the GS4, ought to output a picture that is 4,163 x 3,122 pixels, or something like that.

That's 3.25 times as much area. Now the actual output you SEE when you look at either one depends on the ppi of the screen you are viewing it on and whether any "shrink-to-fit" is going on behind the scenes to get the whole picture visable at once or not. Or, for printed pictures, it depends on the dpi of the printer and whether or not any size manipulation happens behind the scenes - such as would be the case if you choose a default print size from within the default MS Windows viewer - or intentionally by the user.

Keep in mind that on even a 1080 screen like most of the new flagship smartphones have, either picture will be shrunk to fit when you look at it from within the gallery, and if everything else were equal would look pretty dang near exactly the same. Until you pinch-to-zoom, when you will find the larger picture will have much more "zoomability" before looking pixelated.

Now the tradeoff for having larger sensor pixels in lieu of quantity is that although you lose "zoomability" or print size, you gain - in theory, again if everything else is equal - better light gathering. This means a better opportunity for a decent shutter speed to noise ratio in any given lighting senario. Said simply, better indoor or evening photos.

Hope this has been helpful.


Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[warpdrive]

The truth is larger pixels don't let in any more light then the smaller ones.
The truth is larger pixels SHOULD give you better dynamic range. Sadly they don't.

The truth is the f2 lens is what helps let in light.

The truth is if you want to hang up anything more then a 5x7 print, then the HTC One is not for you. But who prints anything anymore.

Personally, I want to see more tests in low or ultra low light under tungsten lightning. Say at a bar. You'll notice that no one will since phonedog's tests.
Maybe one of you will try a few honest tests?

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

 

[adriandb]

The truth is larger pixels don't let in any more light then the smaller ones.
The truth is larger pixels SHOULD give you better dynamic range. Sadly they don't.

The truth is the f2 lens is what helps let in light.

What are you basing this on?

 

[warpdrive]

What are you basing this on?

Dynamic range...
Reality. Every pic posted in any review shows what I'm saying.

As for the ultra pixels, at ISO100, do you really think they would absorb more light then smaller pixels at ISO100? Come on, did HTC and the fanboys really fool you?

Omg, this is photography 101

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

 

[adriandb]

None of the side by sides I've seen so far have shown a conclusive decision on how good this camera is IMHO. A larger sensor pixel should absorb more light, but that's only one piece of the puzzle to taking good shots.

I'll do my own side by sides vs. my iPhone 4s and whatever the next iPhone is when my wife gets it. That's the camera to beat at the moment anyway.

 

[Russ Smith]

If I am understanding this right, the Ultrapixel cam is a 4MP shooter with incredible enhancements on the board. With that understanding, pictures should be smaller in data size, take up less room on the phone, and be less data-intensive to upload than an 8MP or 13MP cam.

Do I have that correct? I remember one statement about the Ultrapixel camera being essentially a 13 MP camera arranged differently, but I think the understanding of the pictures is more complete now.

My other thread post:

An interview with HTCs camera designer
"Some of the early criticism of the One has been that images captured with its camera tend to look grainy and overly processed with noise reduction when viewed at full resolution -- particularly with shots captured in well lit conditions. What's your take on that criticism?

Whitehorn: I'd highlight that those were preproduction units. We had an automatic ISO issue that's been resolved and fixed pre-production launch. ... All those issues shouldn't be there [in final consumer versions of the phone]."

http://m.blogs.computerworld.com/android/21976/htc-one-camera

Sent from my HTC One


Sent from my HTC One

 

[mstrblueskys]

My other thread post:

An interview with HTCs camera designer
"Some of the early criticism of the One has been that images captured with its camera tend to look grainy and overly processed with noise reduction when viewed at full resolution -- particularly with shots captured in well lit conditions. What's your take on that criticism?

Whitehorn: I'd highlight that those were preproduction units. We had an automatic ISO issue that's been resolved and fixed pre-production launch. ... All those issues shouldn't be there [in final consumer versions of the phone]."

http://m.blogs.computerworld.com/android/21976/htc-one-camera

Sent from my HTC One


Sent from my HTC One

I was just reading that article and coming back to share. Thank you!

Sent from my EVO using Android Central Forums

 

[warpdrive]

A larger sensor pixel should absorb more light, but that's only one piece of the puzzle to taking good shots.

No it does not. Stop saying this. That is just flat out wrong. That is not how pixels work.

Forget the marketing bs that HTC says.
What larger pixels do is help increase dynamic range...or details in the shadows and highlights.
The lack of dynamic range has already been proven by everyone who reviewed the camera including this website (both before and after the update)

I have 30 years of photography as a pro and now a retired hobbyist. I know what pixels do and what they don't do.


sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

 

[adriandb]

If you say so. I'll wait to do a comparison on my own before passing judgement.

 

[Charles Lambton]

No it does not. Stop saying this. That is just flat out wrong. That is not how pixels work.

Forget the marketing bs that HTC says.
What larger pixels do is help increase dynamic range...or details in the shadows and highlights.
The lack of dynamic range has already been proven by everyone who reviewed the camera including this website (both before and after the update)

I have 30 years of photography as a pro and now a retired hobbyist. I know what pixels do and what they don't do.


sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

I don't claim to have much experience in the matter, and I don't know if HTC's claims are true in regards to the camera. There seem to be a lot of mixed opinions with the general consensus being that the camera is good, but not good at everything and not exactly revolutionary.

I think you need to stop being so aggressive on here, have you used the camera on it yet? Have you discussed it's inner workings with the people that designed and built it? In layman's terms an object with a larger surface area should have more light hitting it then an object with a smaller surface area, I think that's pretty indisputable. So if you took a standard 4 Megapixel camera and placed it side by side with the 4 "Ultrapixel" from the One, the sensor should be larger and therefor for the same resolution shot as a standard 4 Megapixel the One's camera should expose the sensor to more light.

Does that have a huge affect on the final photo? I don't know. I do know that flashing your experience on here just makes you seem pushy.

 

[xtn]

Technically he's right. Larger pixels don't let in or absorb more light. It's the f2 lense that does that.

But the larger pixels, by providing for a higher dynamic range (if they do) is what ALLOWS the use of that f2 lense and shutter speed ranges to (in theory) give us more versatility re. low lighting conditions or faster action shots.

But that's pretty complex to explain in marketing material. So I think saying the bigger pixels let in more light is an acceptable, if technically inaccurate, form of geting the point across.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Charles Lambton]

Technically he's right. Larger pixels don't let in or absorb more light. It's the f2 lense that does that.

But the larger pixels, by providing for a higher dynamic range (if they do) is what ALLOWS the use of that f2 lense and shutter speed ranges to (in theory) give us more versatility re. low lighting conditions or faster action shots.

But that's pretty complex to explain in marketing material. So I think saying the bigger pixels let in more light is an acceptable, if technically inaccurate, form of geting the point across.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

That explains it a bit better I think, thanks for the response. It still doesn't make complete sense to me though, it could be like you said and the technical details are just beyond the average ***** like me.
Is the sensor physically larger because of larger pixels? If so, why would that not let in more light per pixel?


edit: really? i d i o t is blanked out?

 

[warpdrive]

I think you need to stop being so aggressive on here, have you used the camera on it yet? Have you discussed it's inner workings with the people that designed and built it? In layman's terms an object with a larger surface area should have more light hitting it then an object with a smaller surface area, I think that's pretty indisputable. So if you took a standard 4 Megapixel camera and placed it side by side with the 4 "Ultrapixel" from the One, the sensor should be larger...

But, it don't work like that, and no, the censor is not larger like in another low light cameraphone.

While a larger censor would help with dynamic range, it again wont help with light absorption. What lets in light is the aperture of the lens.

This is how it all works...

The censor absorbs light based on the ISO settings. So at ISO100, it absorbs light based at that value no matter how big or small.
But, in the same size die or censor, if one is 4mp and the other is 8mp, then the one with the larger pixels "should" have more dynamic range.

What is dynamic range?
It is the details in the highlights and shadows.

The shutter speed does let in light to expose the censor to light based on time. But the aperture lets in the light by a fixed amount called the "f stop".
The more wide open (smaller number) the more light that you let in...and the less will be in focus.

I hope I helped.

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

 

[Charles Lambton]

But, it don't work like that, and no, the censor is not larger like in another low light cameraphone.

While a larger censor would help with dynamic range, it again wont help with light absorption. What lets in light is the aperture of the lens.

This is how it all works...

The censor absorbs light based on the ISO settings. So at ISO100, it absorbs light based at that value no matter how big or small.
But, in the same size die or censor, if one is 4mp and the other is 8mp, then the one with the larger pixels "should" have more dynamic range.

What is dynamic range?
It is the details in the highlights and shadows.

The shutter speed does let in light to expose the censor to light based on time. But the aperture lets in the light by a fixed amount called the "f stop".
The more wide open (smaller number) the more light that you let in...and the less will be in focus.

I hope I helped.

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

Thank you for the explanation. So why do you think the phone's not getting good dynamic range?

 

[warpdrive]

Thank you for the explanation. So why do you think the phone's not getting good dynamic range?

Ah, poor software. It could be a smaller size censor, but that would be dumb for HTC to do, and they said it was the same size.

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

 

[BEARD GANG]

No it does not. Stop saying this. That is just flat out wrong. That is not how pixels work.

Forget the marketing bs that HTC says.
What larger pixels do is help increase dynamic range...or details in the shadows and highlights.
The lack of dynamic range has already been proven by everyone who reviewed the camera including this website (both before and after the update)

I have 30 years of photography as a pro and now a retired hobbyist. I know what pixels do and what they don't do.


sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

So is it better than the s3 camera or atleast the same????? In what way if it is in simple terms

 

[adriandb]

Ah, poor software. It could be a smaller size censor, but that would be dumb for HTC to do, and they said it was the same size.

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d

Lets hope so. Software can be fixed if there are issues.

 

[warpdrive]

So is it better than the s3 camera or atleast the same????? In what way if it is in simple terms

On phonearena, they did a blind test of 6 phones in outdoor, indoor/low light, and video. We the people voted.
The iPhone5 came in first, then the s4, then s3, the One came in 4th but dead last in low light.
But I think the One is still great.

sent with my 2 year old HTC evo3d