When will Google fix Android's fragmentation?

[Ikeman90]

I just hate that my GS3 will never get Android L.

Posted via Android Central App

Fragmentation isnt the reason for your 2 year old phone not getting L. Sammy is. people like to blame google for fragmentation but it was never their intention for the oems to make such extravagant changes that cause updates to not be released in a timely fashion. Sammy, HTC and others alike have to take the update add their own things and make sure it all still works. This can be very time consuming and often ends up with the slightly older phones not being worth the trouble to them. Now Google is making strides to fix a problem they didnt create. I believe he reason they are pulling apps from the os and putting them in the store is not so they can update apps more often but so OEMs have less to do with the updates in hopes that they will have more of their phones running the latest shortly after the nexus line.

 

[JeffDenver]

Let's say your Nexus 5 is having issues. Where do you take it too to fix this issue.

If you bought it through Google Play, and it is less than 2 weeks, you can RMA it...this means you send it to Google and they send you a new one. I have had really good experiences with this. They will overnight you a new phone immediately, at no cost, and you just mail the old one back within 2 weeks.

If it is through a carrier (like t-Mobile) you can get warranty service through them. If not T-Mobile, then the OEM themselves (in this case, LG).

If it is not a warranty issue, you either take it to any phone repair shop and pay out of pocket, or you go through your insurance provider. For insurance, there is typically a deductible. I have seen them as cheap as $50, and as much as $150. $100 is normal. The company I go through has a $75 deductible. Insurance will usually cover any damage (even if you do it yourself) except water damage...and a few of them will cover even that.

With a Nexus device who would I take it too.

If you bought it through a carrier, you could handle it the same way you do your GS3. If you bought it on Google Play, you'd need to go through Google or LG for warranty service. Or your insurance company if your warranty doesn't cover it.

Now with Google introducing Android silver soon, who do all these customers take there device to if they have a issue.

Android silver devices will probably be handled the same way OEM devices are. The same way your GS3 is handled right now. I don't think they will be significantly different except they will have Vanilla Android on them. The truth is we don't know yet for sure.

That is why I brought up having an actual walk in "Google store" . As Android grows wouldn't there be a need for something like this. How many people even know the Nexus 5 even exist.

They do sell in the millions. The Nexus 4 sold well over 3 million, and the Nexus 5 sold better than that. And at least one major carrier sells them in it's store. I have seen Nexus 5's in T-Mobile kiosks at the mall.

 

[JeffDenver]

Fragmentation isnt the reason for your 2 year old phone not getting L. Sammy is. people like to blame google for fragmentation but it was never their intention for the oems to make such extravagant changes that cause updates to not be released in a timely fashion. Sammy, HTC and others alike have to take the update add their own things and make sure it all still works. This can be very time consuming and often ends up with the slightly older phones not being worth the trouble to them. Now Google is making strides to fix a problem they didnt create. I believe he reason they are pulling apps from the os and putting them in the store is not so they can update apps more often but so OEMs have less to do with the updates in hopes that they will have more of their phones running the latest shortly after the nexus line.

This is another big advantage of Android over iOS that people forget; you do not need to upgrade your entire OS to get new versions of Maps and Gmail and whatever...in Android those things are separate apps. In iOS those things are integrated. So you will never get new Apple Maps unless Apple upgrades your OS to a new version. But my 2009 Droid 1 can still run the 2014 version of Google Maps, and it can still be the default Maps app.

 

[JeffDenver]

Here is one thing. On my GS3 when I get a notification in the status bar and I touch it, the Android OS does NOT direct me to the app. I have to pull the drop down menu and got to the notification screen touch the notification and then I can go to the app.

With iOS I get a notification, I touch it on the status bar and I am redirected to the app.

These are pop-up notifications. This is already coming to Android L, and there is an app on the Play store that does it for everyone else already.

I personally prefer not to have these because they are distracting. I'd rather have them stay in the notification center. So I hope Android L has a way to turn this off.

 

[JeffDenver]

Apple is starting to realize that they will have to let some things into their walled garden. As time goes on those things will increase. I wonder with Android will we ever see Google's version of the Apple store.

There are google stores, but I seriously doubt you will ever see something like the Apple stores. Because google is not the OEM, and they do not want to be a hardware maker/servicer. Android is just a means to an end for them. Their real business is advertising.

This is why Google does not care if it's products are cheap. Their livelihood does not rest on how much money they can make from their hardware. Thats why nexus phones are sold at cost. If they made zero profit from nexus devices it would not matter to their bottom line, because their real money comes from their advertising. Google has no incentive to rip you off on hardware.

I heard Google's customer service is extremely poor. You rarely talk to an actual person.

My experience with Google was pretty positive. You do in fact talk to an actual person, you just can't call them directly. You have to trigger a call-back on their site and they call you.

Initially I was annoyed too. But they were responsive and knowledgeable after that. And they are not picky about making you prove the phone is broken. They'll make you do a factory reset first, but if it is broken, you tell them you want a replacement and they send another out immediately, overnight, even before you send them the broken one.

 

[A895]

You can use a Nexus 5 on Sprint? Didn't know that.

Yes you can, you can buy on contract or buy it direct from Google Play.

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

 

[dc9super80]

That's not Google's fault. As was mentioned above, it's up to the phone manufacturers. Android is open source, so they can do whatever they like and customize the OS, which makes getting Android updates out faster. And then the updates have to go through the carriers, which makes it take even longer.

As far as iOS, it's going to get you more updates, but the phones older than 2 years run horribly on iOS 7. Apple does it just for the sake of saying that they can update more phones.

The only iPhone that runs iOS 7 horribly is the iPhone 4. The 4s runs quite well, almost like the 5, which is just every so slightly slower than the 5s. The problem with the iPhone 4 was it´s single core processor. The iPhone 5 seems to run iOS 8 quite well from the beta tests, and it only a few months newer than than the Galaxy S3.

That said, comparing updates on iOS vs Android is not a good idea, since they are two different models. Apple can support as many products as it wants, because they directly control hardware and software. Google has to be realistic because it provides Android for thousands of devices. I think 18 months or 2 years is more than reasonable for updates. Additionally with Google Play Services, being the "more important" factor, most phones would be up to date. You may not get L, but I am sure your Gmail and Chrome apps would get updated. Slap a launcher on to complete the rest.

 

[Ry]

I don't want Android turning into a closed ecosystem.

 

[nj1266]

Then why does Apple care about Marketshare? Whay are they suddenly interested in PHablets and small tablets when they dismissed them before as not being optimal for the best user experience?

Marketshare matters. - Apple's profits fetish could spell its DOOM • The Register


Marketshare is what leads to profitshare. Even Apple can see that, which is why they are changing their policy. Google is catching up rapidly on App revenue. It rose 3 times faster than Apple's did last year. Apple is not stupid enough to ignore the implications of that.

Android is close to passing up iOS on mobile data usage:

View attachment 126012
(Source: Android Market Share To Top iOS for First Time Ever: Net Applications | BGR)


...at the moment. You keep clinging to the idea that it will stay this way forever. But it never does. At one point Apple led in marketshare on phones, then lost that. They led marketshare in tablets, then lost that. I remember Apple people on here saying these things would never happen, but they did.

Profits are no guarantee that the product will remain dominant. There are numerous examples of this from the past. Where is Blackberry now? Where is Nokia now? They both used to dominate this industry.

Your post is speculative. It is always about the future. Look at the title of the first link: it "COULD" spell doom. But then again it could not. It is speculative.

We are talking about NOW. NOW, Apple and Samsung have the largest profit share among all handset makers. No one else comes close. The doom of Apple and to a lesser extent of Samsung is always forecast by the media, but Apple keeps defying expectations and selling more phones when quarter to equivelant quarter are compared. This doom and gloom has even become a joke amongest Apple fanbois as in "Apple is doomed" There is always a clairvoyant like you who predicts the collapse of Apple and Smasung, but they both keep chugging along.

When the first iphone was first introduced it was laughed at. So called experts said it was (all together now) DOOMED. Did it happen? The complete opposite took place.

The same thing was predicted about Apple PCs, but look at the market now. Apple controls 9-10% of the PC/laptop market, but it is the ONLY maker that is making HUGE profits out of their PCs.

"Last quarter, this left HP, the (still) largest PC maker, with a measly 3% operating profit for its Personal Systems Group. By contrast, Apple’s share of the PC market may only be 10% or less, but the Mac owns 90% of the $1000+ segment in the US and enjoys a 25% to 35% margin."

http://www.mondaynote.com/2013/09/15/apple-market-share-facts-and-psychology/

Give me FACTS aand not speculation. All your posts about the DOOM of Apple is speculation. Show me that marketshare has indeed lead to a decrease in profitshare for Apple AND Samsung. Where is your data? Where are your facts? The Fact is that they are the ONLY two handset makers making profits NOW, NOW, NOW. No one else comes close.

LG, the makers of you beloved Nexus 5, did not even make any profits last year, they were in the red eventhough their marketshare was 9% of all smartphone sales. So much for marketshare affecting profitshare.

 

[A895]

I don't want Android turning into a closed ecosystem.

Me neither. Being open and allowing you to do whatever you dang please is the biggest draw for me, along with intents and sharing.

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

 

[ultravisitor]

If you look at data from both jdpower and consumer reports you will find that Sprint is ranked at the bottom of the pile. I go by the data not by anecdotal evidence

And...? What does that prove about the individual experiences of some people?

I said it works for some people. Who are you to tell the people I know on Sprint that their experience is bad? If they feel like it's good enough for them, then it's good enough for them. Who is using their phones--you or them?

Again, it's not a contest.

 

[Aquila]

I know that it is difficult to resist turning this into all of the other troll about OEM and OS threads, but please let's just don't.

Nexus through spacetime. Android Central Moderator.

 

[nj1266]

The only iPhone that runs iOS 7 horribly is the iPhone 4. The 4s runs quite well, almost like the 5, which is just every so slightly slower than the 5s. The problem with the iPhone 4 was it´s single core processor. The iPhone 5 seems to run iOS 8 quite well from the beta tests, and it only a few months newer than than the Galaxy S3.

The iphone 4 runs ios 7.1.1 well. The problem was the original 7.0 version. That was slow on the 4. I have an iphone 4 and a 5 and a galaxy S3 (and soon an M7 HTC One GPe) and I can tell you for a fact that the original 7.0 was horrible on the 4, but that was all fixed with 7.1.x

 

[nj1266]

Samsung is not Android because Samsung is not the one that actually makes Android. This is common sense to most people, but Apple people cannot seem to wrap their heads around this concept. Samsung cannot come out with new versions of Android. It has to build on whatever Google produces.

40% is not even a majority of the platform. There was a time when Motorola was the king of Android too...things change. There is nothing magical about Samsung. If something better comes along in the Android world, people will switch to it. The only reason Samsung is still here at all is because they make good hardware. It's not because of any loyalty to Samsung as a company. And definitely not because of touchwiz.

First, I am not an Apple only owner. I have Apple, Samsung S3 and even a Samsung smart TV. I do not even own an Apple Laptop. So to peg me in that category is disingenuous at best.

Second, 40% is indeed a majority when the Android maker in second place Huawei had 4.9% market share in 2013. In third place was LG at 4.8%, fourth Lenovo @ 4.5%, and then all the others COMBINED bring up the rest. So you are correct numerically 40% is less than 50%+1, but you are not correct when you look at the whole picture. 40% is huge when everyone else combined makes up the 60%.

Third, Your post, just like all the others you post are speculative. You keep saying that thing will change in the future. You do not know that, you are speculating. Who knows what will happen. You also speculate that Samsung is dominant ONLY because of hardware. Could it not be something else? Could it not be their MASSIVE advertising budget? Is it an accident that the two handset makers with the largest advertising budgets are the most dominant in the market? You just dismiss that as if it is not a factor, using the word ONLY.

 

[JeffDenver]

Your post is speculative. It is always about the future.

The same was true when I predicted Android passing up iOS on phones. The same was true when I predicted Android would pass up iOS on tablets.

Look at the title of the first link: it "COULD" spell doom. But then again it could not. It is speculative.

It was speculative that Blackberry and Nokia would be completely knocked out of the smartphone market by 2013. Who would have believed such a thing in 2009?

We are talking about NOW. NOW, Apple and Samsung have the largest profit share among all handset makers.

Therefore...what? They always will? I don't understand what claim you are trying to make. No one is arguing that they are not on top at the moment.

The doom of Apple and to a lesser extent of Samsung is always forecast by the media, but Apple keeps defying expectations and selling more phones when quarter to equivalent quarter are compared.

Apple did not defy expectations for some things. Like my two examples above. Things happened exactly as predicted.

When the first iphone was first introduced it was laughed at.

Just as you laugh at the idea of anyone displacing Samsung and Apple now? uh huh

Give me FACTS and not speculation.

It is a fact that Apple marketshare is declining worldwide. It is a fact that Google app revenue is increasing at a faster pace than iOS app revenue. It is a fact that most people who own smartphones, both worldwide and inside the US, own phones that run Android, not iOS. It is a fact that that was not always true, but it is true in 2014.

There ya go. Have fun with those facts.

All your posts about the DOOM of Apple is speculation. Show me that marketshare has indeed lead to a decrease in profitshare for Apple AND Samsung. Where is your data?

I just posted it. Google is getting app revenue that would have been iOS app revenue had Android not been around.

LG, the makers of you beloved Nexus 5, did not even make any profits last year

So a phone only has value if the company that makes it is profitable...is that what you are trying to claim?

The goalposts have moved to profit because that is the last place Apple still has a lead. Once that has eroded (and IMO it will), I wonder what the next excuse will be.

 

[JeffDenver]

First, I am not an Apple only owner.

So what? Nothing I've said hinges on whether or not you own apple products. I referenced Apple people in general, not you in particular. If all you owned was Android stuff, my post would still be true.

Second, 40% is indeed a majority

40% is not a majority of anything. Your math is wrong. You need over 50% to be a majority. Therefore, there is no OEM that holds a majority in Android.

Samsung is the largest Android OEM, but they are not a majority if they only make up 40%.

Third, Your post, just like all the others you post are speculative.

So what? Am I not allowed to speculate?

Your response is a non-sequitur. No one here has made the argument that Apple and Samsung are not currently on top for profitshare. You are trying to argue with me over something I never denied.

You also speculate that Samsung is dominant ONLY because of hardware. Could it not be something else?

No, it is mostly hardware IMO.

Could it not be their MASSIVE advertising budget?

Not sure where people get the idea that advertising is some kind of magic bullet. Apple was advertising far more than Samsung before the GS3 came out, and that did not seem to stop people from buying Android phones.

Advertising is one variable. It is not an "I win" button.

 

[nj1266]

The same was true when I predicted Android passing up iOS on phones. The same was true when I predicted Android would pass up iOS on tablets.

Market share is one thin and profit share is something different. There are only two profitable handset makers as of today: Apple and Samsung. A company is hard pressed to sustain its growth w/o profit. LG, HTC, MOTO, are not making money. Apple has shown that it can be profitable with declining market share. Case in point, the PC/laptop market. Apple has less than 10% of the market and makes more profit than HP which has the largest market share.

Same applies to the handset market SO FAR. Apple makes 62% of the profit and control only 15% of the market. The rest of the profits are taken by Samsung. They dominate the market because they have the profits to drive their growth.

It was speculative that Blackberry and Nokia would be completely knocked out of the smartphone market by 2013. Who would have believed such a thing in 2009?

Yes it was speculative back then to make any prediction about the future. Those who speculate sometimes get it right, but more often than not get it wrong.

Therefore...what? They always will? I don't understand what claim you are trying to make. No one is arguing that they are not on top at the moment.

The point is, you DO NOT KNOW if they will or they will not. You claim to an oracle and are damn certain that Apple and Samsung are doomed, but you have no facts to back it up. Apple has sustained its profits in the past despite declining market share in the PC/laptop market. Why can't it do it again in the handset market? You seem damn certain that Apple is doomed despite its past practice.

Apple did not defy expectations for some things. Like my two examples above. Things happened exactly as predicted.

Just because a company loses market share does not mean it will lose profit share. FACT is Apple takes in 62% of smartphone profits despite declining market share. Samsung has MORE market share than Apple but less profit share, way less. Apple did defy expectations: their profits continue to grow despite declining marketshare. You and others have been singing the Apple is doomed song without the facts to back it up.

It is a fact that Apple marketshare is declining worldwide. It is a fact that Google app revenue is increasing at a faster pace than iOS app revenue. It is a fact that most people who own smartphones, both worldwide and inside the US, own phones that run Android, not iOS. It is a fact that that was not always true, but it is true in 2014.

Once again marketshare does not equal profit share. You seem to believe that it does. This is not new in any market. The early entrant to any market has the largest marketshare. Apple was the early entrant to the candy bar smartphone market, so when others followed and competition ensued Apple had nowhere to go but down. Same with tablet market. BUT that does not mean that all the entrants to the market are making profits. LG, HTC, MOTO, are not making profits. Only Apple and Samsung are making profits.

I just posted it. Google is getting app revenue that would have been iOS app revenue had Android not been around.

Google is not a handset maker. We are talking about handset makers, specifically Apple and Samsung and how they secure almost 90% of all profits. Google give Android for free to handset makers because Google makes most of its revenue from advertising. It is in their interest to give it for free.

So a phone only has value if the company that makes it is profitable...is that what you are trying to claim?

No, a company cannot continue to make phones that have value if they are not profitable. Eventually, LG, HTC, Sony handset division must become profitable or they will be taken over by other companies like what happened with MOTO.

The goalposts have moved to profit because that is the last place Apple still has a lead. Once that has eroded (and IMO it will), I wonder what the next excuse will be.

That is your OPINION. It is not fact. The fact is that in the past Apple has sustained a profitable PC/laptop business despite the loss of marketshare. TODAY, Apple computers have less than 10% marketshare and are more profitable than the leader in marketshare which is HP. If Apple did that in the past why can't they do it in the future?


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[A895]

Jesus, why are we arguing about who makes money?

Posted via Droid Razr M on the Android Central App

 

[nj1266]

40% is not a majority of anything. Your math is wrong. You need over 50% to be a majority. Therefore, there is no OEM that holds a majority in Android.

Samsung is the largest Android OEM, but they are not a majority if they only make up 40%.

Since you want to be literal about it even though I admitted that I was NOT talking mathematically, then be that way. I will change the nomenclature to accommodate your self worth to plurality. Happy now? 40% of all Android handset makers is HUGE when the number two in the list is at 4-5%.

So what? Am I not allowed to speculate?

Your response is a non-sequitur. No one here has made the argument that Apple and Samsung are not currently on top for profitshare. You are trying to argue with me over something I never denied.

Not when you claim that you know the future and present your posts as if what you say WILL happen. You do not know (nor I for that matter) what will happen.

No, it is mostly hardware IMO.

You said in your post it was ONLY hardware. Now you change it to mostly. That is a habit of yours. You present your opinion as fact, but when you are called on it, then you change the wording.

Not sure where people get the idea that advertising is some kind of magic bullet. Apple was advertising far more than Samsung before the GS3 came out, and that did not seem to stop people from buying Android phones.

Advertising is one variable. It is not an "I win" button.

But you did not say that it is one among many variables! you said that Samsung's dominance is ONLY the result of hardware. Unlike you, I said that it COULD be advertising. I left the door open for other variables.


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[Jarhead212]

I should of never asked about fragmentation on an Android forum. Lesson learned.

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