Jelly Bean (4.1) - Root Questions

[hyminameisderek]

Morning all!

With the impeding announcement of Jelly Bean, I, as a rooted user have a few questions.

Will I have to unroot and revert back to stock in order to receive the update? I'm assuming I'd only have to do that if I wanted to receive it OTA, but I'm unsure.

In regards to Google releasing the updates on their server prior to the carriers pushing it out; if the CDMA update is released on their server then we can just flash that and not worry about when Verizon is going to push it, correct?

Lastly! In regards to previous updates from the devs such as CM team and the like. How quickly do they typically incorporate these changes? I understand Gingerbread to ICS was a large update and it took forever to get a stable CM. Seeing that ICS to Jelly Bean seems to be similar to the Froyo to Gingerbread update. What was the time frame for Froyo to Gingerbread in regards to ROMs?

Thanks in advance!

 

[7stringer]

You won't have to unroot to get the update, unless you want the OTA like you stated.

Devs will likely have the update implemented in at least a nightly within a week or two, I imagine. As for a stable build? Who knows, could have a few nightly iterations to get the kinks worked out before that happens - maybe a month or so.

You won't have to worry about getting the update if you're rooted - you can flash a ROM that will incorporate it quickly, or you can probably flash the file directly from Google, as they will release it far faster than VZW will.

 

[hyminameisderek]

I understand that I'm getting ahead of myself - I assume ICS to Jelly Bean is going to require a full wipe and clean install, which brings me to a question I've had forever in regards to ROMs

Why can a carrier push an update OTA and it not need a clean install but these Dev's and our community here always recommend a clean wipe? Not even so much from ICS to Jelly Bean, but it's recommended for updated nightlies even. I just never understood it.

 

[2defmouze]

I understand that I'm getting ahead of myself - I assume ICS to Jelly Bean is going to require a full wipe and clean install, which brings me to a question I've had forever in regards to ROMs

Why can a carrier push an update OTA and it not need a clean install but these Dev's and our community here always recommend a clean wipe? Not even so much from ICS to Jelly Bean, but it's recommended for updated nightlies even. I just never understood it.

Like 7stringer said you'll get the source in ROMs months before the OTA gets pushed.

OTAs work mostly by using many ".p" or patch type files that build on your stock system to upgrade it. They also have the luxury of a large team of highly paid people working to make the process as simple for the end user as possible. Our ROM devs do all this for free and are focused on using the source code to create a stable system, patch files are not in their interest. So they ask that you do a full wipe to clear out your old system and data before putting a new one there.

Not wiping, whether it's for "nightlies" or whatever, often causes issues. In the strictest sense btw there is no difference at all between a nightly and anything else.. They are all complete ROMs and you are just as likely to run into problems not wiping on either.

Then it becomes a huge hassle for a dev if you report bugs when you did not wipe.. As they can be sent on a wild goose chase through millions of lines of code looking for an issue that doesn't really exist.

*For completeness sake.. Let's say restoring system data or Google data after a full wipe is the same as not wiping in the first place.. Don't do it!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[hyminameisderek]

It all makes sense to me now! Thanks for the input.

I haven't had any issues with updating and not wiping, or as you all seem to call 'Dirty flashing'...yet that is. I always wipe Delvik Cache though . I learned my lesson the one time I tried to restore both apps and data with Titanium Backup and vowed to never restore data again. Pretty much every app crashed and force closed.

 

[2defmouze]

It all makes sense to me now! Thanks for the input.

I haven't had any issues with updating and not wiping, or as you all seem to call 'Dirty flashing'...yet that is. I always wipe Delvik Cache though . I learned my lesson the one time I tried to restore both apps and data with Titanium Backup and vowed to never restore data again. Pretty much every app crashed and force closed.

If you want to dirty flash you should wipe cache, dalvik cache, and format /system. Or at the absolute lazy minimum both caches. If you run into issues, you know what to do...

To be clear, many apps data can be restored with tibu. Hell I always do full wipes and if I had to lose my save games and certain other app data I'd never do it. As a rule just be sure you never restore system data, any Google app data, or data to anything that syncs actively in your system, say Facebook or even dropbox.. The few minutes it takes to sign into those apps is better than screwing them up and needing to wipe all over again.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Paul627g]

My biggest suggestion to those when Jelly Bean does become available is to be cautious.. Depending on how much of a change there is to the UI and OS in general it maybe come unstable flashing it over existing ICS. There could be even deeper changes to the file system structure and partitioning of file systems, we just don't know at this point.

I would pay great attention if/when it becomes available of restoring backups from Titanium or My Backup. Normally in this situation going off previous updates/upgrades from Froyo to GB you would only want to restore DATA, and not the APKS do to possible changes in system related APKS.

Just a heads up so we get headed down the correct path when things become available to take into consideration.

 

[2defmouze]

My biggest suggestion to those when Jelly Bean does become available is to be cautious.. Depending on how much of a change there is to the UI and OS in general it maybe come unstable flashing it over existing ICS. There could be even deeper changes to the file system structure and partitioning of file systems, we just don't know at this point.

I would pay great attention if/when it becomes available of restoring backups from Titanium or My Backup. Normally in this situation going off previous updates/upgrades from Froyo to GB you would only want to restore DATA, and not the APKS do to possible changes in system related APKS.

Just a heads up so we get headed down the correct path when things become available to take into consideration.

Good advice, but really the apks don't change at all, and if they did you would do worse restoring data from an old apk to a new one than just restoring the old apk with data then updating it from the market.

As an example, when I got my Gnex I actually copied my whole tibu backup folder from my bionic's sd to my Nexus and restored all my games and saves and stuff without any issues, and of course the GB to ICS changes were huge. But yes I was still cautious, mostly only restoring app+data for games and some utility apps. Long as you use your head and avoid data for anything that feels questionable you can usually be alright
(assuming your head is a trustworthy organ in the first place.. For some folk this might not be the case)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Paul627g]

Gotcha. Point we are all trying to make is just take it slowly when it comes... Make your backups (Nandroid) & Titanium/My Backup and really read and follow all instruction to have the least amount of problems...

Your not going to get any 1st place ribbons for being the first bricked or borked device

 

[hyminameisderek]

If you want to dirty flash you should wipe cache, dalvik cache, and format /system. Or at the absolute lazy minimum both caches. If you run into issues, you know what to do...

To be clear, many apps data can be restored with tibu. Hell I always do full wipes and if I had to lose my save games and certain other app data I'd never do it. As a rule just be sure you never restore system data, any Google app data, or data to anything that syncs actively in your system, say Facebook or even dropbox.. The few minutes it takes to sign into those apps is better than screwing them up and needing to wipe all over again.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I must be misunderstanding the term dirty flash when I'm reading it in the forum. Wouldn't it be a clean install if you wipe cahce, dalvik cache, and format the system? What am I missing?

 

[Paul627g]

Dirty flash is normally just wipe cache partition and dalvik cache. Formatting or wiping data (or system) is a full clean install because you erase all data & settings.

 

[2defmouze]

I must be misunderstanding the term dirty flash when I'm reading it in the forum. Wouldn't it be a clean install if you wipe cahce, dalvik cache, and format the system? What am I missing?

Dirty flash is normally just wipe cache partition and dalvik cache. Formatting or wiping data (or system) is a full clean install because you erase all data & settings.

Negative.. Your recovery (CWM or TWRP, whichever you're using) will have an options to wipe or format the system, and an option to Wipe data / Factory reset. The 2nd one is what we talk about when we say full wipe, that erases all your data and formats the /data partition. Wiping or formatting the /system partition only clears out your old system. Doing it, then flashing a ROM+gapps, you will see all your old user apps still there and all your system settings (the settings part of them is stored in /data) still there. In fact, all AOSP ROMs wipe your /system automatically when you flash them... so even when you think you are just wiping cache and dalvik as part of a dirty flash, your system is getting formatted as well, it has to before a new one can be put there. However some devs and myself will recommend you format /system from your recovery before you flash the ROM anyway.. just as a double-check to make sure it gets cleaned out properly and you don't see any "ghosts in the machine" in your new system. Again, the ROM is going to do this anyway, so no its not necessary, but still recommended as you won't be losing anything and it might help.

 

[Paul627g]

Hmmm did I just get schooled?

I think so..

I never really thought about it to tell you the truth in all the ROM flashing I have done over the last 2 years... 99.9% of the time I just do a factory reset and flashed and never gave anything else thought.

 

[2defmouze]

Hmmm did I just get schooled?

I think so..

I never really thought about it to tell you the truth in all the ROM flashing I have done over the last 2 years... 99.9% of the time I just do a factory reset and flashed and never gave anything else thought.

Learn somethin new everyday

 

[Paul627g]

Let me throw this into the fold... The "/system (format)" option has really only become available in the last few months or more... If I remember going back to when I started flashing ROMs back say around CWM 2.x.x days (Eclair OS) and long before TWRP was ever thought of you didn't have this option to format /system in the wipe options.

So I guess for me, I formed a habit that just has stuck with me since then... You had...

Wipe data/factory reset
Wipe data cache
Advanced>Wipe Dalvik Cache

I now use TWRP since it hit the streets and even still I stick to my old habits of wipe everything and flash..

But for the sake of argument that is how a dirty flash was always done back some time ago.. You wiped dalvik cache/cache partition and skipped the data/factory reset and flashed your ROM.

Thoughts?

 

[2defmouze]

Let me throw this into the fold... The "/system (format)" option has really only become available in the last few months or more... If I remember going back to when I started flashing ROMs back say around CWM 2.x.x days (Eclair OS) and long before TWRP was ever thought of you didn't have this option to format /system in the wipe options.

So I guess for me, I formed a habit that just has stuck with me since then... You had...

Wipe data/factory reset
Wipe data cache
Advanced>Wipe Dalvik Cache

I now use TWRP since it hit the streets and even still I stick to my old habits of wipe everything and flash..

But for the sake of argument that is how a dirty flash was always done back some time ago.. You wiped dalvik cache/cache partition and skipped the data/factory reset and flashed your ROM.

Thoughts?

Sure yeah, makes plenty sense. The formatting /system part like I said isn't necessarily crucial most of the time, especially since AOSP based ROMs do it automatically... I just like to do it as an added check, it won't hurt anything and might possibly help a bit

 

[JkdJedi]

I have a rough Toro Jelly Bean build I downloaded from another site if you wanna check it out, radio does not work, you'll need wifi to sign in. I have to say though that this thing is a nice upgrade.

 

[dmmarck]

I have a rough Toro Jelly Bean build I downloaded from another site if you wanna check it out, radio does not work, you'll need wifi to sign in. I have to say though that this thing is a nice upgrade.

You should check out the General Section...

 

[JkdJedi]

You should check out the General Section...

Well that's embarrassing.. glad I didn't post anything.. lol. Thanks

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2