09-09-2017 10:59 PM
183 ... 5678
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  1. Aquila's Avatar
    Even if you don't believe in these so called conspiracy theories, the planned obsolescence is already here: carrier contracts, choice of fragile materials, non removable batteries, limited and limiting software updates, yearly phone releases etc. The worst thing is: people accept this without even starting to think.
    No the worse thing, by far, is people inventing wild stories to explain away events that are perfectly reasonably explained without the need for tall tales and hyperbole.
    09-05-2017 04:09 PM
  2. Paradroid01's Avatar
    No the worse thing, by far, is people inventing wild stories to explain away events that are perfectly reasonably explained without the need for tall tales and hyperbole.
    Who is this guy who was sentenced to five years in jail btw?
    09-05-2017 04:12 PM
  3. Aquila's Avatar
    Who is this guy who was sentenced to five years in jail btw?
    Are we about to be introduced to your red herring?
    09-05-2017 04:16 PM
  4. B Hoste's Avatar
    I gave my son my Note 4 when I got the s8+ and it is still working great. Just checked and everything is up to date too.
    Cary Quinn and boudicca00 like this.
    09-06-2017 08:09 PM
  5. flyingkytez's Avatar
    Some guy found a temp fix for this!!

    https://forums.androidcentral.com/sa...ml#post5954651

    Doesn't make sense, if it was hardware related, why does it work now after he did some modding on his own? Still stand with my original statement...
    09-08-2017 06:03 PM
  6. chanchan05's Avatar
    Some guy found a temp fix for this!!

    https://forums.androidcentral.com/sa...ml#post5954651

    Doesn't make sense, if it was hardware related, why does it work now after he did some modding on his own? Still stand with my original statement...
    Because the emmc is a flash memory, not a mechanical memory like normal HDD. So it doesn't completely fail in one go.

    This is most apparent in failing memory cards. I've had 2 fail on me, and over 10 years of mobile phone forum participation has shown me the usual symptoms. Generally the phones goes a bit slower than it used to, then there are times with software glitching when trying to access the card, especially from a sleep state. One of my secondary phones, a Galaxy V for work, had the symptom of the icons of apps transferred to memory card suddenly becoming greed droids and telling me the app was inaccessible after waking the device up from sleep. And it would be fixed by a reboot.

    In the situation given above, it was described that when he does manage to turn it on, it works until it is placed into sleep where the emmc fail starts. This is because the initial power burst from turning in jolts the emmc to wake up. However once it holds a steady low power state, it becomes unable to wake up due to inherent issues. In that case the most likely reason for the failure to read/write is the connection between the emmc module and the mother board. Could be some wear on the gold connectors. Kind of similar to having the need for some old cables to be folded in a specific way for it to work. An ideal example would be an old cable that when you initially use it to connect to a PC, it works, but after a while it suddenly doesn't allow the phone to be detected, and you'd need to unplug/plug, or play with how it's folded.

    In an ideal world where the emmc would not be soldered to the board, you could replace this like replacing RAM on a PC. The solution of keeping a wakelock on it is working as a temporary patch up wherein the worn connectors are kept hot and connected by continuous energy flow taking advantage of the module being jolt awake by initial power surge.

    However I could give his solution about a possible additional of one year of use before it finally breaks down, as long as the device isn't regularly turned on and off a lot. That's just off the top of my head. You generally see failure symptoms on flash memory go on for months before they becomes actually unreadable no matter what you do. Sometimes, even if a card becomes unreadable on a cellphone, due to the higher power state in a computer, it will still be read on a PC.

    It's all about the power state of the phone.

    The only possible explanation I can have for possibly laying it on the Samsung update is that thr update featured improvements on sleep power management like Doze or something similar. If you have a failing memory module, the only way to keep it open is to have always a high power flow into it. However Doze and other similar power saving tricks decrease the flow to certain components, including the emmc module to save power. This is similar to the standby state on laptops where the HDD spinning is turned off after half an hour. This introduction of better power management works fine on phones with new or still viable memory. But if your emmc module is already failing before you got this update, then it contributes to it. So in essence an update may have triggered the final demise, but it's already dying before it happened.
    09-08-2017 08:05 PM
  7. flyingkytez's Avatar
    Because the emmc is a flash memory, not a mechanical memory like normal HDD. So it doesn't completely fail in one go.

    This is most apparent in failing memory cards. I've had 2 fail on me, and over 10 years of mobile phone forum participation has shown me the usual symptoms. Generally the phones goes a bit slower than it used to, then there are times with software glitching when trying to access the card, especially from a sleep state. One of my secondary phones, a Galaxy V for work, had the symptom of the icons of apps transferred to memory card suddenly becoming greed droids and telling me the app was inaccessible after waking the device up from sleep. And it would be fixed by a reboot.

    In the situation given above, it was described that when he does manage to turn it on, it works until it is placed into sleep where the emmc fail starts. This is because the initial power burst from turning in jolts the emmc to wake up. However once it holds a steady low power state, it becomes unable to wake up due to inherent issues. In that case the most likely reason for the failure to read/write is the connection between the emmc module and the mother board. Could be some wear on the gold connectors. Kind of similar to having the need for some old cables to be folded in a specific way for it to work. An ideal example would be an old cable that when you initially use it to connect to a PC, it works, but after a while it suddenly doesn't allow the phone to be detected, and you'd need to unplug/plug, or play with how it's folded.

    In an ideal world where the emmc would not be soldered to the board, you could replace this like replacing RAM on a PC. The solution of keeping a wakelock on it is working as a temporary patch up wherein the worn connectors are kept hot and connected by continuous energy flow taking advantage of the module being jolt awake by initial power surge.

    However I could give his solution about a possible additional of one year of use before it finally breaks down, as long as the device isn't regularly turned on and off a lot. That's just off the top of my head. You generally see failure symptoms on flash memory go on for months before they becomes actually unreadable no matter what you do. Sometimes, even if a card becomes unreadable on a cellphone, due to the higher power state in a computer, it will still be read on a PC.

    It's all about the power state of the phone.

    The only possible explanation I can have for possibly laying it on the Samsung update is that thr update featured improvements on sleep power management like Doze or something similar. If you have a failing memory module, the only way to keep it open is to have always a high power flow into it. However Doze and other similar power saving tricks decrease the flow to certain components, including the emmc module to save power. This is similar to the standby state on laptops where the HDD spinning is turned off after half an hour. This introduction of better power management works fine on phones with new or still viable memory. But if your emmc module is already failing before you got this update, then it contributes to it. So in essence an update may have triggered the final demise, but it's already dying before it happened.
    Great explanation, though why specifically Samsung phones? I have an old iPhone 4 and LG Optimus Fuel from 2014 as well, I use the LG as my daily music streamer and alarm clock. I haven't had 1 issue with it, hasn't shown signs of dying yet. My Samsung laptop is from 2013, runs brand spanking new (windows update turned off bc it kept slowing down my PC, had to factory reset). I would assume computers would take more abuse than phones in terms of usage and heat generation.
    09-09-2017 12:13 AM
  8. chanchan05's Avatar
    Great explanation, though why specifically Samsung phones? I have an old iPhone 4 and LG Optimus Fuel from 2014 as well, I use the LG as my daily music streamer and alarm clock. I haven't had 1 issue with it, hasn't shown signs of dying yet. My Samsung laptop is from 2013, runs brand spanking new (windows update turned off bc it kept slowing down my PC, had to factory reset). I would assume computers would take more abuse than phones in terms of usage and heat generation.
    Not specifically Samsung phones, but rather specifically the Note 4. Could simply the a quality of emmc modules used in that particular model unit. I don't have a Note 4, but as I said, I have Samsung devices older than the Note 4 which are running well. In a scenario where there is planned obsolecense, my Tab P6200 which is 5 years older than a Note 4 should be obsolete, but it's still being used as my mom's primary tablet for music, surfing, and games.

    All in all it still boils down to a bad hardware component.
    09-09-2017 01:43 AM
  9. boudicca00's Avatar
    Rooted phones have the means to block updates. I have a rooted, old GN3 that's running an older OS. Rooting will void the warranty, but I'm fine with that.

    Also, if you purchase your phone with an Amex card, Amex extends the warranty by a year. I think other credit cards offer this was well. So if your phone breaks outside of the warranty period, Amex covers repair costs for an additional year.
    09-09-2017 01:51 AM
  10. flyingkytez's Avatar
    Rooted phones have the means to block updates. I have a rooted, old GN3 that's running an older OS. Rooting will void the warranty, but I'm fine with that.

    Also, if you purchase your phone with an Amex card, Amex extends the warranty by a year. I think other credit cards offer this was well. So if your phone breaks outside of the warranty period, Amex covers repair costs for an additional year.
    One reason why I dislike Samsung phones: bloatware. Package disabler pro helps a little, but IDK... Samsung is FORCING the updates by annoying reminders to update your OS, until that 3rd year with the final Doomsday update. Have control of YOUR phone, then has control of the market.

    If your Note 8 suffers from the same fate 3 years from now, I will laugh because no one believed it. Most likely people here are phone enthusiasts and will upgrade by then.
    09-09-2017 02:31 AM
  11. chanchan05's Avatar
    One reason why I dislike Samsung phones: bloatware. Package disabler pro helps a little, but IDK... Samsung is FORCING the updates by annoying reminders to update your OS, until that 3rd year with the final Doomsday update. Have control of YOUR phone, then has control of the market.

    If your Note 8 suffers from the same fate 3 years from now, I will laugh because no one believed it. Most likely people here are phone enthusiasts and will upgrade by then.
    Again, your '3rd yr update' is already disproven by the fact that my brother's old S3 is my mom's primary phone, and an 8 year old Tab P6200 is her primary tablet. They should be dead by now if all devices have a 3 year lifespan thanks to updates.

    No package disabler pro as well and I get updates as soon as I receive them. The only difference I can see between your anecdotal cases and me is that I am not in the Americas, hence updates are not tampered by carriers. I still can't believe carriers in the US tamper with the OS just to block tethering and the mobile data toggle.
    eshropshire likes this.
    09-09-2017 02:45 AM
  12. Paradroid01's Avatar
    Isn't it funny, people come by and say: my phone works, I have proved you wrong. Lol

    Of course these things don't happen with all phones! Companies are not stupid. If the MMC problem of the Note 4 had caused a battery explosion like the Note 7, we wouldn't even have to discuss this topic here. It would have been clear: Too many devices broken, what's up Samsung?
    09-09-2017 03:51 AM
  13. chanchan05's Avatar
    Isn't it funny, people come by and say: my phone works, I have proved you wrong. Lol

    Of course these things don't happen with all phones! Companies are not stupid. If the MMC problem of the Note 4 had caused a battery explosion like the Note 7, we wouldn't even have to discuss this topic here. It would have been clear: Too many devices broken, what's up Samsung?
    And you came here saying people have their phones broken, so it means you're right? Your justification that our circumstance does not make us right just reinforces the fact that you're not right as well.
    09-09-2017 04:30 AM
  14. AXEL314's Avatar
    oh no, the July security update is the killer??? That's funny, I'm typing this on my 920c which is on the August security patch.
    09-09-2017 05:30 AM
  15. Paradroid01's Avatar
    oh no, the July security update is the killer??? That's funny, I'm typing this on my 920c which is on the August security patch.
    Another one, lol. It's like the Note 7 users. My device never exploded, so why do I have to send it back!? Because it is dangerous!

    A low quality MMC that doesn't work anymore is not dangerous. On the contrary, if it breaks after the two-year guarantee, it works to a company's advantage. Users have to buy a new phone and they don't even dare to bother about the failure of a two year "old" or, should I say, obsolete device.
    09-09-2017 07:22 AM
  16. ThrottleJohnny's Avatar
    One reason why I dislike Samsung phones: bloatware. Package disabler pro helps a little, but IDK... Samsung is FORCING the updates by annoying reminders to update your OS, until that 3rd year with the final Doomsday update. Have control of YOUR phone, then has control of the market.

    If your Note 8 suffers from the same fate 3 years from now, I will laugh because no one believed it. Most likely people here are phone enthusiasts and will upgrade by then.
    "I dislike Samsung phones"...

    Hmmmmm....
    boudicca00 and eshropshire like this.
    09-09-2017 08:22 AM
  17. chanchan05's Avatar
    Another one, lol. It's like the Note 7 users. My device never exploded, so why do I have to send it back!? Because it is dangerous!

    A low quality MMC that doesn't work anymore is not dangerous. On the contrary, if it breaks after the two-year guarantee, it works to a company's advantage. Users have to buy a new phone and they don't even dare to bother about the failure of a two year "old" or, should I say, obsolete device.
    The problem with MMC modules is that it's quality is mostly determined by number of read/writes allowed. Normally it would number in the hundred thousands, but the actual determination of length of viable time would lie in the user. So a set number of years is impossible to count, since people don't use phones the same way. One could last 2 years for some but 10 years for others. So this still doesn't point to actual intended planned obsolecense, rather to Samsung having skimped on certain components of the Note 4 specifically. The idea of 'let's get this cheap MMCs, it'll theoretically last 3-5 years. Instead of the expensive ones that will last 7 years, they'll have bought new ones in 2 years anyway', is vastly different from a scenario of 'we're gonna put this low quality MMCs to force them to buy new ones in 2 years'. Especially since in phones there is always an unpredictable factor: you the user. Although both will end up looking at the same place: new phone in 2-3 years

    And as far as this thread has shown us, this appears at least mostly confined to the Note 4, which suggests actual bad component choice, rather than some grand overarching scheme where the 3rd yr update in all Samsung phones will kill it.

    However that is the entire point of the 2 year guarantee. The company only guarantees you that the device works perfectly in 2 years, and components may start breaking down individually after that time. In that essence, they already were upfront with you that the device may not last beyond that point.
    Aquila and boudicca00 like this.
    09-09-2017 08:58 AM
  18. Almeuit's Avatar
    One reason why I dislike Samsung phones: bloatware. Package disabler pro helps a little, but IDK... Samsung is FORCING the updates by annoying reminders to update your OS, until that 3rd year with the final Doomsday update. Have control of YOUR phone, then has control of the market.

    If your Note 8 suffers from the same fate 3 years from now, I will laugh because no one believed it. Most likely people here are phone enthusiasts and will upgrade by then.
    As I stated before.. LG and other manufacturers do this as well with bloat ware. They force the updates.

    I seriously don't get why you think it's only a Samsung phone that can do this. That really isn't the case.

    Also you'll laugh at someone having an issue such as their phone dying? That's pretty... cool I guess...
    chanchan05 and boudicca00 like this.
    09-09-2017 09:00 AM
  19. badcat's Avatar
    Us Android folk are an odd lot. Half of us complain about too few updates while the other complains about too many updates...
    chanchan05 likes this.
    09-09-2017 12:12 PM
  20. flyingkytez's Avatar
    As I stated before.. LG and other manufacturers do this as well with bloat ware. They force the updates.

    I seriously don't get why you think it's only a Samsung phone that can do this. That really isn't the case.

    Also you'll laugh at someone having an issue such as their phone dying? That's pretty... cool I guess...
    People are having issues with primarily with Samsung after 2-3 years. Don't know why they slow down, the hardware is still good after 2 years with 3GB RAM. It's software problems from updates.
    09-09-2017 04:22 PM
  21. flyingkytez's Avatar
    Us Android folk are an odd lot. Half of us complain about too few updates while the other complains about too many updates...
    They complain about updates, and when they get them and don't like it and struggle to downgrade. Security updates are bogus, never had someone hacked my phone ever. More like more carrier bloatware addons.
    09-09-2017 04:23 PM
  22. Almeuit's Avatar
    People are having issues with primarily with Samsung after 2-3 years. Don't know why they slow down, the hardware is still good after 2 years with 3GB RAM. It's software problems from updates.
    So you agree it isn't fully Samsung but those others you dismiss and Samsung you blame as if they're doing malicious things? Very odd.
    eshropshire likes this.
    09-09-2017 04:24 PM
  23. flyingkytez's Avatar
    So you agree it isn't fully Samsung but those others you dismiss and Samsung you blame as if they're doing malicious things? Very odd.
    I didn't say that you are putting words in mouth. I said Samsung phones typically have software issues after sometime more so than other brands.
    09-09-2017 04:34 PM
  24. Almeuit's Avatar
    I didn't say that you are putting words in mouth. I said Samsung phones typically have software issues after sometime more so than other brands.
    Yeah.. so as I said you seem to be dismissing all others but slamming Samsung only as if they're the only one.. but they aren't.
    Cary Quinn and eshropshire like this.
    09-09-2017 04:35 PM
  25. Aquila's Avatar
    Some guy found a temp fix for this!!

    https://forums.androidcentral.com/sa...ml#post5954651

    Doesn't make sense, if it was hardware related, why does it work now after he did some modding on his own? Still stand with my original statement...
    Your original statement has been proven false. Why stand by it despite it being false?
    Cary Quinn and eshropshire like this.
    09-09-2017 06:10 PM
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