Samsung Galaxy S8+ serious video issue?

[anon(7901790)]

Hmmm. Good question. I have my display set to max resolution. That may be a factor. Also, if you're streaming to a TV that is not 4K, the video may not look as great as if you're watching it on your phone.

 

[Gary02468]

I don't know if this has been asked before but OP, what resolution is your screen set on?

I don't think that's it. The extreme macro-blocking is visible at the phone's maximum screen resolution, as well as on UHD monitors, as reported earlier in the thread. But most of our S8-recorded UHD videos look fine whatever resolution they're replayed at (just some specific kinds of shots show the problem). (And aren't macro-blocking artifacts more likely to arise when converting from low-res recording to hi-res playback than vice versa?)

 

[anon(7901790)]

Except for you, everyone here who reports having tried the rapid trees-to-bright-sky pan says they encountered the macro-block problem. Again, it would be helpful if you could post your video for comparison.

Ok. I think I see the "problem." I'm just not sure I can explain it easily. It has something to do with rapidly changing from a darker (trees) to a lighter (sky), and the camera is trying to keep the proper exposure.

 

[Gary02468]

Ok. I think I see the "problem." I'm just not sure I can explain it easily. It has something to do with rapidly changing from a darker (trees) to a lighter (sky), and the camera is trying to keep the proper exposure.

Exactly. Like you, I initially posted here that my phone didn't have the macro-blocking problem, until I tried that specific shot and found that it did.

I don't know if it has to do with exposure--the displayed brightness of both the trees and the sky seems to stay the same as the macro-blocking occurs. But it's clearly some sort of bug, hardware and/or software, that makes otherwise-crisp UHD images degrade to sub-HD quality during that particular transition (but not under any other circumstances I've encountered, though I'm sure other problem shots can be found). And even in that particular shot, the trees stay crisp--it's only the sky that macro-blocks.

 

[anon(7901790)]

It's not necessarily a software bug or hardware problem. It's part of the nature of digital photography/videography. When transitioning from a relatively dark area to a much brighter area the sensor is going to have a hard time compensating for the abrupt change. Especially with the small, relatively cheap sensors that smart phones use. If you did the same thing with an iPhone or LG G6 I'd be willing to bet that you'd have the same problem, maybe less pronounced, but the same problem.

The reason that it's not happening or is less pronounced at a lower capture resolution is that there is less data and the camera has an easier time analyzing each frame and then setting the exposure for each frame.

 

[Gary02468]

It's part of the nature of digital photography/videography. When transitioning from a relatively dark area to a much brighter area the sensor is going to have a hard time compensating for the abrupt change. Especially with the small, relatively cheap sensors that smart phones use. If you did the same thing with an iPhone or LG G6 I'd be willing to bet that you'd have the same problem, maybe less pronounced, but the same problem.

Possibly, though to my knowledge that hasn't been reported in other UHD-video phones. (If anyone knows of such reports, I'd appreciate a pointer.)

I'm not sure I understand the explanation you're proposing. What sort of "hard time" would the sensor have making the transition? The only thing that occurs to me is that the transition could be delayed; but it doesn't look like that's happening. First, even though the problem arises during the overall tress-to-sky transition, the macro-blocking itself is within the sky region, including areas of the image sensor that stayed within the sky the whole time. And second, I don't see how brightness-transition-delay would result specifically in macro-blocking (and without any evident change in the playback image's overall brightness).

My tentative guess would be that we're seeing a flaw in the compression algorithm.

 

[anon(7901790)]

Possibly, though to my knowledge that hasn't been reported in other UHD-video phones. (If anyone knows of such reports, I'd appreciate a pointer.)

Exactly, to your knowledge.

I'm not sure I understand the explanation you're proposing. What sort of "hard time" would the sensor have making the transition? The only thing that occurs to me is that the transition could be delayed; but it doesn't look like that's happening. First, even though the problem arises during the overall tress-to-sky transition, the macro-blocking itself is within the sky region, including areas of the image sensor that stayed within the sky the whole time. And second, I don't see how brightness-transition-delay would result specifically in macro-blocking (and without any evident change in the playback image's overall brightness).

My tentative guess would be that we're seeing a flaw in the compression algorithm.

There are three settings that every camera has, aperture, shutter speed and ISO.

When shooting video, to maintain a 30fps frame rate, the shutter speed is constant. Also, the S8/8+'s camera is a fixed aperture. That means the only setting that can be changed to maintain proper exposure and still keep 30fps is the ISO.

Increasing the ISO on a digital camera doesn't increase the sensitivity. What is happening is the signal coming from the sensor is being amplified. When that happens it introduces noise. When transitioning from a dark area to a light area, the camera has to lower the ISO. The processor has to register the change in brightness, then lower the ISO to compensate. That time it takes to register the change and make the change is not instantaneous. Because of the fast transition from dark to light, you're going to get artifacts, which the processor can't process out. Keep in mind the processor has to read, process, and write (that's where the compression algorithm comes in) ONE 4K frame (8,294.400 pixels) 30 times a second as well as monitor exposure and keep focus. Smartphones, unlike dedicated cameras don't have dedicated image processors. It has to do all of that as well as monitor for incoming phone calls, location, wifi, bluetooth, etc.

The amount of data being processed at 4K is double the amount at HD (1920x1080). That is why you see less artifacts at HD than at 4K. It's a whole lot less data the phone has to process. Also, by lowering the resolution to HD, you are actually getting a better dynamic range which will also reduce artifacts.

 

[Gary02468]

Exactly, to your knowledge.

Um, yes, that's why I requested any pertinent information, if it exists.

When transitioning from a dark area to a light area, the camera has to lower the ISO. The processor has to register the change in brightness, then lower the ISO to compensate. That time it takes to register the change and make the change is not instantaneous.

Thanks, I appreciate the further details. But what still puzzles me is that during playback, there's no apparent change in the brightness of either the trees or the sky during the rapid panning. And both regions of the image continue to seem properly exposed. How can that be explained if there is a lag in ISO adjustment?

Because of the fast transition from dark to light, you're going to get artifacts, which the processor can't process out.

But why the particular artifact of sky-region macro-blocking? If anything, the fast transition would result in overexposure of the bright region, not underexposure, correct? (Though in fact, neither is apparent.) I can see why underexposure might result in macro-blocking, but why would overexposure do so?

Smartphones, unlike dedicated cameras[,] don't have dedicated image processors. It has to do all of that as well as monitor for incoming phone calls, location, wifi, bluetooth, etc.

Don't S8s have separate GPUs? Also, the intricate trees and leaves remain crisp during the panning, while the relatively uniform, easily compressed sky information is what's macro-blocked. That doesn't sound like processor overload.

 

[anon(9918034)]

The GPU isn't dedicated to image processing. GPU main function is for high res gaming and 3d graphics. It helps ease the load in the processor while gaming, making in irrelevant when it comes to taking videos and pictures.

To simplify what gernerttl was saying. Is that the hardware in a smart phone is not capable of processing the information while recording in 4k to give it a 100% smooth transition dark to light and light to dark.

For testing I will use my son's LG G6 when I get home and try and recreate this problem.

I still hold my stance that my phone does not do this under the very specific guidelines of the op. However I have gotten it to do it when going from dark area to the blue sky. which was easily explained by the kind gentleman who knows more about cameras than any of us. Also I would like to add that I could careless that this happened. Seeing as how I'm not a professional tree to blue sky videographer.

 

[1jkent]

Hello, everyone. Someone here asked what my screen resolution settings were -- that's actually a fantastic question, and I've tried changing that around several times, all with the same effect. In fact, when you replay the mp4 on other devices (including my Samsung tablet at QHD resolution), any television, or computer screens, you will see the exact same "macro-blocking" in the blue sky. Because the original link has long since been buried now, I'll post it again. This is test video I shot on my S8+ to demonstrate the problem:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gfikz1cw4pc45yi/Test QHD.mp4?dl=0

I also shot some video in a Best Buy with a Samsung rep who was astounded at what he was seeing. It was a Magnolia Best Buy, and they have a deep red wall around their Magnolia center -- and the macro-blocking was visible in the areas of the deep red wall while panning the camera around. It seems that in what I would call "flat" surfaces (blue sky, the block of red wall), it's as if the camera says that it can compress the image on that flat surface while it's doing something else. I'm not sure of how else to explain it, but it seems to be the way it's taking the image and writing it to a digital file.

Most importantly to me, however, is the fact that my 2-year-old Samsung Galaxy S6 did not have this issue when shooting at 4k, and the new phones have greater processor and RAM horsepower under their hoods. So I can not even imagine for a second that it's because the phone is too overwhelmed to write 4k video. Especially when you consider that I've taken so many brand new S8 and S8+ handsets right out of the box, with no secondary apps installed, set the settings to 4k, started recording, and identified the same issue. If it has to do with the phones not being capable of recording video at 4k properly, why would they even offer the option? And why would we not be hearing reports about other phones doing this at 4k resolution?

I do agree that many people are just "point-and-shooting" right out of the box with it at 1080, and that's likely whey they aren't noticing the issue. But if you "crank it up" in the settings, many of us start to have trouble immediately, whether its UHD or QHD that we're using.

I tried calling my rep at Samsung's Office of the President this afternoon, to make sure that I wasn't going to get a refurb phone back when I sent this out. I got her voicemail, and no return phone call yet. :/ Now I'm nervous about sending it back.

Take care, everyone!

 

[anon(9918034)]

The newer phones also run updated software that requires more processing speed and ram to keep it running smoothly. We all know touch wiz is the most featured packed user interface. Those features have to be kept on demand and ready to go. Your phone is monitoring the data signal going to and from. The cell signal for calls, optimizing constantly in the backround. it's running Android and touch wiz at the same time. I can get the entire list of what this phone is doing as you use it. it's not impossible for there to be lag when recording a 4k video that includes rapid changes in the iso.

also like the gentleman stated before all phones that have 4k video recording do this because there isnt a dedicated processor for the camera. I can tell you that this same thing happens on the LG G6. I just did it 5 minutes ago. Maybe just stick with you Galaxy s6 for now.

Do you only record videos of trees then quickly pan the camera to the blue sky. Thats the only time this could ever be an issue.

 

[1jkent]

Swagglepuff, no, the problem is only most evident during rapid movements. However, it can be seen at other times, as well. Even the video shot of the coy pond in the Tom's Guide review I linked to before shows the issue -- even when panning very slowly. Someone else shot video of his dog walking and found it to be a compressed mess. He took a screen shot of the problem and reported it on this thread:

https://us.community.samsung.com/yn...8/GS8QA/3423/1/Screenshot_20170510-191759.png

Or, if the direct link doesn't work, then go to the attachment on the first posting on this thread:

https://us.community.samsung.com/t5...RDING-ISSUES-IN-UHD-AND-QHD/m-p/135748#M12677

Would you do us all a favor and show us the same issue on the LG G6? I'm very curious to compare the two.

As an aside, I traded the S6 in on the new S8+, thinking the photos and video could only be better, and because the older unit was losing battery life and starting to get a little dotty; so, sadly, going back to the S6 is not an option.

 

[1jkent]

After showing a tech-savvy friend of mine the test video I shot at QHD, he believes that the problem is actually in the hardware, not the software -- and not because the chip isn't designed to handle recording video at 4K and because it's so busy doing other things. He strongly suspects, especially based on reports of numerous (but not all) handsets experiencing the same difficulties, that there is a bad cpu/gpu chip that has made its way into some of the new S8/S8+ handsets, that they know of the issue on some handsets, but are only replacing/repairing them as the complaints are made. It's an interesting theory, and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens from here.

I have sent my handset out, so I will keep everyone here posted on what happens. If Samsung handles the issue for me and corrects the problem, then I will let everyone here know, so that those of you experiencing the problem can get yours repaired/replaced (if you would like to go that route).

 

[anon(9918034)]

when the gentleman explained that this would happen on all phones that shoot 4k due to the hardware limitations of phones. Then in my son's LG G6 which has a different processor/gpu and different camera, I was able to recreate this issue. so tell me how a 100% completely different phone reacts the same way.

 

[Gary02468]

The newer phones also run updated software that requires more processing speed and ram to keep it running smoothly.

If you "update" software in a way that degrades its performance compared to older software running on older hardware, that's what's called a "bug".

 

[anon(9918034)]

It means that consumers want more more more more for less or the same. Phone manufacturers have to work with in the limitations of the available hardware to give the consumer everything they want. So each year the software gets more complex while the hardware makes incremental changes. There will be things inside a phone that take a hit, one if those seems to be 4k video(which doesn't matter) cause only Sony has a phone with a true 4k screen.

The amount storage required to only shoot in 4k is a crap ton. Do you want to spends hundreds of dollars on micro SD cards so you can shoot everything in 4k. Or do you want to use a phone camera for its purpose to be able to do pics and videos on the fly. Just because a phone can record in 4k doesn't mean it will be professional quality you see from dedicated 4k cameras. If you want that kind of quality then buy a camera that is built to shoot only 4k.

 

[1jkent]

Why offer 4k shooting ability if you can't do it right? Why does it also affect QHD quality on those handsets suffering from the issue? And most importantly: Why are some on this thread not suffering from this issue? The argument doesn't make sense, and Samsung is clearly saying it "isn't right" in that they're offering to fix/replace the phone.

 

[zanman]

Why offer 4k shooting ability if you can't do it right? Why does it also affect QHD quality on those handsets suffering from the issue? And most importantly: Why are some on this thread not suffering from this issue? The argument doesn't make sense, and Samsung is clearly saying it "isn't right" in that they're offering to fix/replace the phone.

I just did a google search on this issue and found this thread, I'm glad I did. I have a Verizon S8+, picked up about a month ago, and I'm experiencing the same issue. It has been driving me crazy. I've noticed it happening shooting outside, moving the camera around and looking at the sky. The sky looks like a pixelated mess, or as it was described earlier, 'sub HD'. Anything else in the forefront of the shot, like the ground, looks fine. My settings are exactly the same as OP's, and I've tinkered around to get rid of it.

OP please keep us posted on what happens. I'll probably end up taking mine back in regardless.

 

[1jkent]

Zanman,

I'm really, really sorry this problem is affecting you, too. My phone was just delivered to the repair facility in Texas today, so I should have some more news over the next couple of days. If they send back a phone (either my original or a replacement) that does the same thing, I'm going to be really irritated. One way or another, though, I'll let everyone here know what happens.

 

[anon(9918034)]

Why offer 4k shooting ability if you can't do it right? Why does it also affect QHD quality on those handsets suffering from the issue? And most importantly: Why are some on this thread not suffering from this issue? The argument doesn't make sense, and Samsung is clearly saying it "isn't right" in that they're offering to fix/replace the phone.

Because it sells phones, that is why. Marketing has made people believe that you will get a studio quality 4k camera in a phone. Which is ridiculous, secondly I can recreate this on any phone that shoots 4k video as I have done with the LG g6. Because it comes down to the hardware cannot keep up with the demands of the consumer. Samsung replacing phones isn't recognizing a problem, it's them allowing for defective models that will be produced to be replaced and good customer service.