5G means the end for all non-5G phones but will take forever to implement

[methodman89]

As milliniumdroid notes, worry not about the low frequency end of the EMS spectrum.

For example, every lifeform on earth since the creation of our solar system nearly 4.5 billions years ago has been exposed to the energy photons generated shortly after the creation of the Universe in the unfortunately named "Big Bang" nearly 14 billion years in the past.

While these energy packets began as incredibly short wavelength, high energy Gamma radiation, whose energy is now approximated only in the CERN particle accelerator, both the expansion of the universe at a rate faster than light speed and the cooling of the photons packets has stretched their wavelengths and reduced the photon energy to that of microwave and radio wave frequencies and energies.

Discovered accidentally by Penzias and Wilson of Bell Labs while trying to eliminate annoying, continual, faint static from their radiotelescopes, the two won the 1978 Physics Nobel for discovering the ghost signals of our own creation event. We call it the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) and it passes harmlessly through our bodies every second of every day. Just like the radio waves produced by WiFi, Bluetooth, FM, AM, etc.

The energy level of a photon packet is directly proportional to the oscillation frequency of of the energy photon according to Planck's Law, where "h" is Planck's constant:

E = hf

So, lower EMS frequencies like radio, infrared and microwave have lower energy per packet than higher frequency waves like visible light, ultraviolet light, X-Rays and Gamma Rays.

MRI machines work by using supercooled magnets to align hydrogen ions in our bodily fluids like water and radio frequency waves that deflect off these aligned particles to produce detailed soft tissue images. You could have an MRI every day for your entire life without serious damage to your cells and DNA.

Conversely, Hard X-Rays produced in large quantities by one CT machine scan can bombard your cells and DNA with the equivalent of an entire year's worth of recommended maximum exposure to radiation expressed in Sieverts. Until this warning label was removed from CT imaging machines, hospitals and clinics were afraid to buy then because patients were afraid to have them! Ah just rip the radiation warning off and it no longer exists.

So, don't worry about damage from the radiation sources we know exist and that knowledgable sources constantly tell us are harmless. Worry about the damage and death from radiation sources we don't realize exist and whose effects are constantly hidden from us by knowledgable sources who say nothing.

Have a nice evening.

Talk about mixing a rambling, at many times irrelevant verbose diatribe with a lack of objective current scientific theory and concern and a penchant to try to have a huge understanding of the current situation all the way back to the big bang. Dismissive and a bit condescending to those who disagree on top.
As my teachers used to say, show your work.
Open your current 4th gen phone manual and see the distance from the head that a phone is held for it to pass regulatory approval.
Show some current microwave spectrum studies which back your assertions, and explain the many which contradict your speech.
Have a nice morning.

 

[Eric Webb]

I don't understand the need to insinuate personal attacks into a response to a forum post augmenting another member's post. Asking serious question is fine, or offering a reasonable technical perspective is always appreciated--and the adult way to conduct oneself. Personal attacks on someone you don't even.know resides in the domain of nonsensical behavior that deserves no.response in kind.

I won't act as a young child would and attack you as a person; I don't know you. But your unwarranted behavior will not impress others. If you haven't learned this fundamental property of human communication by now, trust me, how can you expect to receive the respect and trust you may deserve?

You really owe me an apology, although I won't hold my breath. I've lived long enough to know that a mea culpa is a sign of strength and generally impresses other people. Perhaps you'll surprise me. I've also survived long enough to know there's always hope.

I rarely comment in these forums about silly devices and technologies. Perhaps some folks are wired to teach or discuss deep truths, like the quantum entanglement which is actually proving in every experiment capable of creating instant and secure global network communications, not to mention quantum computing.

It's already happening. China already has a 50-year plan to spend trillions of dollars on quantum computing and networking. They now have low altitude satellites implementing quantum networking which would render 5G, WiFi, VPNs, encryption algorithms, etc. irrelevant.

Thus, it's can be pointless to discuss only lesser technologies used for silly purposes like Facebook or Twitter, when we can also discuss quantum technology leaps (accidental pun) along with current compromises to implement short-term, inelegant solutions. Why should I regret sharing a unique perspective with someone because a third party posts immature slurs and unsubstantiated personal epithets? And my posts have nothing to do with "arrogance" or "condescension;" I've just been doing this stuff for a long time (hmm....perhaps I.just labelled myself "old").

I've simply immersed myself in computing and telecomunications since a 16 year-old Duke freshman in 1975. I've created and run technology departments in both the private and public sectors. I've had to defend financial decisions to federal Department Inspectors General and to Congressional Committees. Ive been a material witness with the FBI in two successful fraud cases for the Northern District of Virginia US Attorney's Office. I've had swearing matches with the late Senator John McCain only to grab lunch 30 minutes later.

We understood the difference between viewpoint differences and the person him or herself. Sometimes I'd think awhile and see things his way and vice versa. This is the epitome of adult behavior.

So, I've simply been fortunate to do stuff for a long time and in interesting places. You can't help but learn things and gain a unique perspective.

So yes, I push folks to obtain deep knowledge and aim high, mostly in University classrooms and in my postdoc studies guided by a couple of Physics Nobel Laureates. I challenge them and as advisors, they encourage the practice. Sure I can feel quite ignorant and even stupid at times but as adults, my advisors wave it off and tell me to push forward. No Safe Places allowed. No fetal.positions tolerated. Tackle something harder--somewhere else in the world somebody else is doing just that.

Perhaps being a kid in Tampa, Fla during our race to the moon inspired me to think about big ideas and not take short cuts but instead consider the Big Kahuna. Like the Saturn V rocket I watched shake the earth during the Apollo 8 launch to circle the moon.

FYI, nobody in real life considers me either condescending or prone to rambling diatribes. Well, perhaps coherent diatribes. Nobody's perfect. I am also an older, shot up Marine who has held and comforted dying kids I had no ability to save. That either breaks you or compels you to feel great compassion for your fellow human beings. Sometimes it does get the best of me and the anger is consuming, but I do my best to never take my personal firestorms and weaponize my feeling as personal attacks against others. Thus, I will not respond in kind to anyone who acts as though personal attacks are a legitimate form of communication.

Later, I've got work to do.

Peace,
Eric

 

[methodman89]

I don't understand the need to insinuate personal attacks into a response to a forum post augmenting another member's post. Asking serious question is fine, or offering a reasonable technical perspective is always appreciated--and the adult way to conduct oneself. Personal attacks on someone you don't even.know resides in the domain of nonsensical behavior that deserves no.response in kind.

I won't act as a young child would and attack you as a person; I don't know you. But your unwarranted behavior will not impress others. If you haven't learned this fundamental property of human communication by now, trust me, how can you expect to receive the respect and trust you may deserve?

You really owe me an apology, although I won't hold my breath. I've lived long enough to know that a mea culpa is a sign of strength and generally impresses other people. Perhaps you'll surprise me. I've also survived long enough to know there's always hope.

I rarely comment in these forums about silly devices and technologies. Perhaps some folks are wired to teach or discuss deep truths, like the quantum entanglement which is actually proving in every experiment capable of creating instant and secure global network communications, not to mention quantum computing.

It's already happening. China already has a 50-year plan to spend trillions of dollars on quantum computing and networking. They now have low altitude satellites implementing quantum networking which would render 5G, WiFi, VPNs, encryption algorithms, etc. irrelevant.

Thus, it's can be pointless to discuss only lesser technologies used for silly purposes like Facebook or Twitter, when we can also discuss quantum technology leaps (accidental pun) along with current compromises to implement short-term, inelegant solutions. Why should I regret sharing a unique perspective with someone because a third party posts immature slurs and unsubstantiated personal epithets? And my posts have nothing to do with "arrogance" or "condescension;" I've just been doing this stuff for a long time (hmm....perhaps I.just labelled myself "old").

I've simply immersed myself in computing and telecomunications since a 16 year-old Duke freshman in 1975. I've created and run technology departments in both the private and public sectors. I've had to defend financial decisions to federal Department Inspectors General and to Congressional Committees. Ive been a material witness with the FBI in two successful fraud cases for the Northern District of Virginia US Attorney's Office. I've had swearing matches with the late Senator John McCain only to grab lunch 30 minutes later.

We understood the difference between viewpoint differences and the person him or herself. Sometimes I'd think awhile and see things his way and vice versa. This is the epitome of adult behavior.

So, I've simply been fortunate to do stuff for a long time and in interesting places. You can't help but learn things and gain a unique perspective.

So yes, I push folks to obtain deep knowledge and aim high, mostly in University classrooms and in my postdoc studies guided by a couple of Physics Nobel Laureates. I challenge them and as advisors, they encourage the practice. Sure I can feel quite ignorant and even stupid at times but as adults, my advisors wave it off and tell me to push forward. No Safe Places allowed. No fetal.positions tolerated. Tackle something harder--somewhere else in the world somebody else is doing just that.

Perhaps being a kid in Tampa, Fla during our race to the moon inspired me to think about big ideas and not take short cuts but instead consider the Big Kahuna. Like the Saturn V rocket I watched shake the earth during the Apollo 8 launch to circle the moon.

FYI, nobody in real life considers me either condescending or prone to rambling diatribes. Well, perhaps coherent diatribes. Nobody's perfect. I am also an older, shot up Marine who has held and comforted dying kids I had no ability to save. That either breaks you or compels you to feel great compassion for your fellow human beings. Sometimes it does get the best of me and the anger is consuming, but I do my best to never take my personal firestorms and weaponize my feeling as personal attacks against others. Thus, I will not respond in kind to anyone who acts as though personal attacks are a legitimate form of communication.

Later, I've got work to do.

Peace,
Eric

Nothing personally attacked you, and in your lengthy reply, still nothing but your 'assurance' in the previous post that there is nothing to worry about regarding 5g.
Do a search for 5g in my previous posts.
Do a search about current testing results.
Don't convince people to be study subjects, unwittingly without proof of safety.
Support your opinion with facts, or its nothing more than that.
If you are taking this as a personal attack again, it's not. It's a correction of your incorrect statements. And alluding to a superior cv is suspect, imo.

 

[mgbosshogg]

I took a punt on getting the 5G 10+.
Phone cost was £100 more.

In knew my provider was not switching it on until about now. So 7 or so weeks where it couldn't be used anyway.
There was also no way to know how they would implement the plans or what they would cost.

My plan is costing the same as my 4G one did. Other than signing up for another year ( this provider is the only one I can get a signal at home anyway ).

Not interested too much in speed, just exclusivity ATM.

 

[gray2018]

Are all the actual health issues regarding 5G true? Because if so, that is enough right there to deter me from ever wanting a 5G device.

 

[Mooncatt]

Are all the actual health issues regarding 5G true? Because if so, that is enough right there to deter me from ever wanting a 5G device.

Even if they were true and you avoided getting a 5G phone, you'll still get hit with the radio waves from other phones and towers.

 

[Rukbat]

Are all the actual health issues regarding 5G true? Because if so, that is enough right there to deter me from ever wanting a 5G device.

Visible light is much higher frequency than mm5G, and sunlight is much more powerful when falling on your face. Visible light is 0.75mm - 0.4mm. Millimeter 5G is 3.5mm - 15 mm, ~35 times less powerful. So if mm 5G is dangerous, sunlight would have wiped the planet clean of life as soon as the first creatures crawled up on land.

And, of course, 600MHz 5G has no different effect than 600MHz 4G (the way we encode the signal - 1G-5G - has nothing to do with how dangerous it is) A phone operating on Band 2 is a lot more "dangerous" than one operating on Band 71 - both in use now, and not dangerous. (And Band 71 (600Mhz) 5G is no more dangerous than Band 71 4G.) (The whole SAR thing was a sop to the public panic about having "radiation" so close to our skin. It's "safer" to have 2.4GHz Bluetooth in your ear than 0.8GHz 4G on the outside of your ear? No - it's all advertising hype, to calm the misunderstanding of that awful word, "radiation".)

But mm 5G is going to be running at a lot less power than current 4G (and Band 71 5G), so it's going to be a lot less dangerous, even if you're working for the carrier and you're standing right in front of the antenna.

The only difference is that there's a lot more bandwidth at 28GHz than there is at 2.8GHz (10 times as much, specifically). So we can stuff in 10 times as many smart refrigerators, smart air conditioners, smart whatevers, at mm frequencies as we can on lower frequencies. But we'll probably have a microcell per block to handle it.

 

[methodman89]

Visible light is much higher frequency than mm5G, and sunlight is much more powerful when falling on your face. Visible light is 0.75mm - 0.4mm. Millimeter 5G is 3.5mm - 15 mm, ~35 times less powerful. So if mm 5G is dangerous, sunlight would have wiped the planet clean of life as soon as the first creatures crawled up on land.

And, of course, 600MHz 5G has no different effect than 600MHz 4G (the way we encode the signal - 1G-5G - has nothing to do with how dangerous it is) A phone operating on Band 2 is a lot more "dangerous" than one operating on Band 71 - both in use now, and not dangerous. (And Band 71 (600Mhz) 5G is no more dangerous than Band 71 4G.) (The whole SAR thing was a sop to the public panic about having "radiation" so close to our skin. It's "safer" to have 2.4GHz Bluetooth in your ear than 0.8GHz 4G on the outside of your ear? No - it's all advertising hype, to calm the misunderstanding of that awful word, "radiation".)

But mm 5G is going to be running at a lot less power than current 4G (and Band 71 5G), so it's going to be a lot less dangerous, even if you're working for the carrier and you're standing right in front of the antenna.

The only difference is that there's a lot more bandwidth at 28GHz than there is at 2.8GHz (10 times as much, specifically). So we can stuff in 10 times as many smart refrigerators, smart air conditioners, smart whatevers, at mm frequencies as we can on lower frequencies. But we'll probably have a microcell per block to handle it.

Before I post not only the CDC guidelines regarding the exposure danger, along with the peer reviewed published studies that are far more concerned than your anecdotal evidence, can you point out any study done with a 5g transmitter against a human skull and the result? Or any study regarding the increased saturation of the spectrum in urban areas? Any you'd like to cite on the development of a fetus exposed to long term mm wavelengths as its mother would be?
Just because it's non ioninizing does not mean that it is safe, it means that the electron remained attached, but the molecule still produced profound changes. See the 'burrito in the microwave for 10 minutes' for clarity.
I encourage everyone to form their opinions based on the facts as we have them, not anecdotes and comparisons to how it could be even worse.
If afterwards you have no problem slowly microwaving your head or what's on the other side of your pocket, go for it, it's a free country.
No apologies needed, or deserved afaics.
P. S. Lay out without sunscreen in the Florida sun for ONE day and you may well get burned to the point of needed medical treatment. Do it for a week and you will be burned, in severe pain, and hospitalized

 

[cardboard60]

So does that mean. If there is exposure.
There wont be any 5G.
Bet money is more important.
But the industry dont care.

 

[Rukbat]

Before I post not only the CDC guidelines regarding the exposure danger, along with the peer reviewed published studies that are far more concerned than your anecdotal evidence, can you point out any study done with a 5g transmitter against a human skull

No, because 5G has nothing to do with radiation, it's modulation, and no (legitimate) studies are done of how modulation of a carrier affects human skulls, because there's no correlation between modulation and the human skull. It's like studies of how different speech rates affect the human skull.

5G isn't a different type of radiation, it's a different type of data on the same old radiation.

It's the same type of radiation that cops have had right next to their heads since antennas were mounted on shoulder-mounted speaker-mics, over 20 years ago (and we don't have tens of thousands of cops retiring due to brain cancer).

I don't know why everyone is getting upset over the dangers of "5G", when we've had cellphones in the top hundreds of MHz (the 800MHz band was the first [AMPS] cellphone band, back in the 80s) for decades - and that's where 5G is going to be starting - Band 71 and Band 12. (mm 5G isn't for cellphones at this time, it's for IoT - and if you're worried about your refrigerator suffering from brain damage, your problem has nothing to do with electronics.)

 

[methodman89]

No, because 5G has nothing to do with radiation(yes, it does, non ionizing) , it's modulation, and no (legitimate)?, (there are many legitimate scientific papers and research studies) studies are done of how modulation of a carrier (?) affects human skulls,(most of the concerns are with soft tissue) because there's no correlation between modulation and the human skull(yes, there are many studies, and all of these devices we have right now must pass a max tx rate to be able to be sold) . It's like studies of how different speech rates affect the human skull.(?)

5G isn't a different type of radiation, it's a different type of data on the same old radiation.(Actually it is a wide range of frequencies that are mm in amplitude, many not yet used for communication, and no one has done any safety assurance testing for that purpose )

It's the same type of radiation that cops have had right next to their heads since antennas were mounted on shoulder-mounted speaker-mics, over 20 years ago (and we don't have tens of thousands of cops retiring due to brain cancer).(No, VHF and trunked UHF systems are short burst, low wattage, simplex, and many inches from the brain in use. Additionally, it's not just about cancer. When you microwave lunch, it doesn't get a tumor, it gets cooked )

I don't know why everyone is getting upset over the dangers of "5G", (Because there are actual studies that have been done that show cellular changes) when we've had cellphones in the top hundreds of MHz (the 800MHz band was the first [AMPS] cellphone band, back in the 80s) for decades - and that's where 5G is going to be starting - Band 71 and Band 12. (mm 5G isn't for cellphones at this time, it's for IoT - and if you're worried about your refrigerator suffering from brain damage, your problem has nothing to do with electronics.)(mm length hardware transievers are being built into devices on the market now)

While I usually like your insights, please take the time to scratch a bit deeper into this. I would like nothing more than to have devices that can do everything, but if the side effects are proven, and not disproven, anecdotal stories are immaterial.

 

[Eric Webb]

While I usually like your insights, please take the time to scratch a bit deeper into this. I would like nothing more than to have devices that can do everything, but if the side effects are proven, and not disproven, anecdotal stories are immaterial.

I read a couple of your posts. You act like a jerk to everyone! But wait, there's more....

Seriously, WTF were you thinking when you demanded experimental results regarding the irradiation of pregnant women?

IMO, there's something seriously wrong with you.

 

[methodman89]

I read a couple of your posts. You act like a jerk to everyone! But wait, there's more....

Seriously, WTF were you thinking when you demanded experimental results regarding the irradiation of pregnant women?

IMO, there's something seriously wrong with you.

I never mentioned pregnant women. There are studies already done with animal fetuses.
Where is your head at?
I thought you were too mature to personally attack anyone.
Still you have yet to site a single study showing its safety, while many scientists, researchers, and doctors have shown the mm spectrum is damaging.
Try doing some factual research instead of personal attacks, you'll learn something.

 

[methodman89]

Some 5g safety news from the EU
https://www.jrseco.com/european-uni...rn-of-potential-serious-health-effects-of-5g/

A little 5g experiment that went a bit off I'd say
https://www.captain-planet.net/hundreds-of-birds-dead-during-5g-experiment-in-netherlands/

And let's not forget to keep it away from your pacemaker (should you have one) from the US CDC https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/factsheets/224613_FAQ_Cell-Phones-and-Your-Health.pdf

 

[Mooncatt]

Some 5g safety news from the EU
https://www.jrseco.com/european-uni...rn-of-potential-serious-health-effects-of-5g/

A little 5g experiment that went a bit off I'd say
https://www.captain-planet.net/hundreds-of-birds-dead-during-5g-experiment-in-netherlands/

And let's not forget to keep it away from your pacemaker (should you have one) from the US CDC https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/radiation/factsheets/224613_FAQ_Cell-Phones-and-Your-Health.pdf

I suggest you research your sources a bit more.

Your first link: That isn't safety news. It's scientists marking a bunch of hypothetical remarks. It's no different than if I said water is deadly and we need to find out why before drinking any more.

Your second link: None of the claimed sources that article linked to were valid web pages. Both came back as redirects to either a home page or article not found. A simple Google search brought up this.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/5g-cellular-test-birds/

Your third link: I'm assuming the attached screen shot is what you referred to? If so, A) that isn't a 5G issue, B) it's only a problem in a very specific situation (going back to my water example, drinking is ok but it's inhaling it that's deadly). A situation that realistically doesn't happen in practice and I'm sure anyone with a pacemaker is already taking active steps to further reduce any danger.

 

[methodman89]

I'm not having trouble opening the first 2 links, and the 3rd link is a pdf from the CDC.
While we seem to disagree about what you were able to view, at least you read further than the marketing literature produced by the companies standing to profit from 5g, which is also discussed in one of the above links.

 

[Mooncatt]

I'm not having trouble opening the first 2 links, and the 3rd link is a pdf from the CDC.

I could open your links fine. The second article you posted about the birds had two source links within it to news sites that were no longer available. My guess is they realized the problem and pulled their stories. Whatever the case, the story has no credibility, as pointed out in the Snopes article I posted.