News Beeper's last attempt at iMessage on Android is here

[Village_Idiot]

And? Do you have a point? I suppose using remote desktop or SSH to access something on a Mac or PC from a phone is also a problem for you ?

That's a false equivalency. Using remote desktop or SSH to legitimately access remote assets with consent of the asset owner is not the same as what Beeper is doing. Beeper is trying to circumvent Apple's security to gain access to a service that Apple deems proprietary without its consent.

Beeper is selling access to an Apple service without compensating Apple. That is called stealing.

 

[fuzzylumpkin]

That's a false equivalency. Using remote desktop or SSH to legitimately access remote assets with consent of the asset owner is not the same as what Beeper is doing. Beeper is trying to circumvent Apple's security to gain access to a service that Apple deems proprietary without its consent.

Beeper is selling access to an Apple service without compensating Apple. That is called stealing.

Yeah, it's really not though. Using beeper to access iMessage on a Mac is no different than using remote desktop to access iMessage on a Mac. There might have been something to say about the old beeper mini but the way they are doing it now there is nothing even remotely unethical about it. I'm pretty sure they aren't even charging. Can't be certain though because I don't actually care about the app lol.

 

[Mooncatt]

...the way they are doing it now there is nothing even remotely unethical about it.

If that were the case, you wouldn't have to source devices (they even suggest having a friend help) to get around Apple's restrictions, and take special care not to use it in a way that alerts Apple to what's going on.

 

[Village_Idiot]

Yeah, it's really not though. Using beeper to access iMessage on a Mac is no different than using remote desktop to access iMessage on a Mac. There might have been something to say about the old beeper mini but the way they are doing it now there is nothing even remotely unethical about it. I'm pretty sure they aren't even charging. Can't be certain though because I don't actually care about the app lol.

You can't use beeper on a Mac. You need a Mac to trick iMessages.

iMessages is a proprietary system that Apple spent millions of dollars and thousands of manhours to develop. Beeper is trying to cash in on the work that Apple has done without compensating it. That is stealing.

Apple has every right to protect its intellectual and proprietary property. Beeper does not have the right to use it without Apple's permission or compensating Apple.

 

[mustang7757]

You can't use beeper on a Mac. You need a Mac to trick iMessages.

iMessages is a proprietary system that Apple spent millions of dollars and thousands of manhours to develop. Beeper is trying to cash in on the work that Apple has done without compensating it. That is stealing.

Apple has every right to protect its intellectual and proprietary property. Beeper does not have the right to use it without Apple's permission or compensating Apple.

I agree

 

[fuzzylumpkin]

You can't use beeper on a Mac. You need a Mac to trick iMessages.

iMessages is a proprietary system that Apple spent millions of dollars and thousands of manhours to develop. Beeper is trying to cash in on the work that Apple has done without compensating it. That is stealing.

Apple has every right to protect its intellectual and proprietary property. Beeper does not have the right to use it without Apple's permission or compensating Apple.

You can use Beeper on a Mac, it's how Beeper cloud works and one way you can obtain your private token for the app we're currently discussing.

If you have access to a Mac (I don't) and you have an Apple ID (I don't) you have every right to access and use iMessage. If you want to take your completely legitimate authentication token and add it to Beeper mini to use on an Android phone (I don't), then that is completely and totally your business and fine with me. Nobody has been harmed and nothing has been stolen.

Now, with the original beeper mini you may have had a point, and this discussion would be more interesting. But how it works currently they are nothing more than a third party middleman between a user and an account they have completely legitimate access to, not really any different than TeamViewer or Chrome remote desktop...

As I said earlier though, this is a pointless argument because it's about philosophy not technology... We're going in circles with no chance of resolution.

 

[Village_Idiot]

You can use Beeper on a Mac, it's how Beeper cloud works and one way you can obtain your private token for the app we're currently discussing.

If you have access to a Mac (I don't) and you have an Apple ID (I don't) you have every right to access and use iMessage. If you want to take your completely legitimate authentication token and add it to Beeper mini to use on an Android phone (I don't), then that is completely and totally your business and fine with me. Nobody has been harmed and nothing has been stolen.

Now, with the original beeper mini you may have had a point, and this discussion would be more interesting. But how it works currently they are nothing more than a third party middleman between a user and an account they have completely legitimate access to, not really any different than TeamViewer or Chrome remote desktop...

As I said earlier though, this is a pointless argument because it's about philosophy not technology... We're going in circles with no chance of resolution.

Since you don't have a Mac nor an Apple ID, then how do you know that you can use Beeper on a Mac? Beeper is an Android only app. You need access to a Mac to trick Apple into allowing you to connect Beeper to its service by logging in via its website.

Also, everything you said does not address the fact that Apple has every right to protect its proprietary information and technologies. Like I said, Beeper is trying to cash in on the work that Apple has done without even attempting to compensate it. That is illegal.

What Beeper is doing is the same as someone parking outside of your house, hacking into your network then providing network access to others for a fee without compensating you.

You seem to think that Apple owes the world something. It owes you, me, or anybody using Beeper exactly diddly and squat.

 

[fuzzylumpkin]

Since you don't have a Mac nor an Apple ID, then how do you know that you can use Beeper on a Mac? Beeper is an Android only app. You need access to a Mac to trick Apple into allowing you to connect Beeper to its service by logging in via its website.

Also, everything you said does not address the fact that Apple has every right to protect its proprietary information and technologies. Like I said, Beeper is trying to cash in on the work that Apple has done without even attempting to compensate it. That is illegal.

What Beeper is doing is the same as someone parking outside of your house, hacking into your network then providing network access to others for a fee without compensating you.

You seem to think that Apple owes the world something. It owes you, me, or anybody using Beeper exactly diddly and squat.

I know because I read and understood the article lol.

You seem to know what I think better than I do, so I'ma just make a latte and leave you to it.

 

[Mooncatt]

If you have access to a Mac (I don't) and you have an Apple ID (I don't) you have every right to access and use iMessage.

If you have access to a Mac and Apple ID, you have every right to access and use iMessage on a Mac. You don't have carte blanche access to it outside of the Apple ecosystem, and I'm guessing it's also a violation of the ToS you agree to when signing up.

 

[bradavon]

Mod Note:

[Just a reminder here , keep things civil and don't attack each other otherwise definitely engage but in a constructive way that won't offend someone]

You're right. We all need a little reminder sometimes, thanks.

 

[bradavon]

You can't use beeper on a Mac. You need a Mac to trick iMessages.

Fair point.

iMessages is a proprietary system that Apple spent millions of dollars and thousands of manhours to develop. Beeper is trying to cash in on the work that Apple has done without compensating it. That is stealing.

Apple has every right to protect its intellectual and proprietary property. Beeper does not have the right to use it without Apple's permission or compensating Apple.

There's such an interesting USA vs. EU (by extension European) viewpoint here.

What you say is undoubtely true but what's being missed is it's not an even playing field.

Because of the way Apple, Google, Microsoft use their operating system dominance smaller companies find it very difficult to compete.

Appreciate this doesn't directly relate to The EU but it's trying to level the playing field so Apple can't get away with underhand tactics that prevent smaller companies competing.

iMessage being iPhone only serves Apple. It doesn't serve Beeper, it doesn't serve Android users and it doesn't serve Apple users.

 

[bradavon]

If you have access to a Mac and Apple ID, you have every right to access and use iMessage on a Mac. You don't have carte blanche access to it outside of the Apple ecosystem, and I'm guessing it's also a violation of the ToS you agree to when signing up.

Maybe but Apple does allow installing any MacOS App you like away from the App Store on MacOS.

I take the point but would push back that it's definitely against any rules or T&Cs. You're given more control how you use Personal Computers than Phones or Tablets.

 

[mustang7757]

[Did a clean up in the thread]

 

[Mooncatt]

I take the point but would push back that it's definitely against any rules or T&Cs. You're given more control how you use Personal Computers than Phones or Tablets.

I couldn't find a specific iMessages ToS, but I did find this. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/data/en/messages/

iMessage is an Apple service that sends messages to other iOS devices (with iOS 5 or later), iPadOS devices, Macs (with OS X 10.8 or later), and Apple Watches.

In other words, I think it's still safe to say that Apple does not permit iMessages to work outside the Apple ecosystem, and what Beeper is doing to circumvent that would be a theft of service and there probably is language against that sort of usage somewhere in one of Apple's ToS's (be it iMessage specifically or at the account level).