Bootloader

Bionic or no with locked bootloader?


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Right here. The DX has been a great piece of hardware, but the locked bootloader has been a real bad deal. I thought I wouldn't mind at first, but now I cannot wait to get to an HTC device. I sometimes like using my original Droid more because of some of the awesome ROMs and kernels available.

Even Motorola has encouraged me to look to other manufacturers for a phone. See signature.
 
wow, responsive forum! no for me. i will keep an ear out for what motorola says in the next few weeks about their position on locking the boot. i hope logic will prevail.it seems strange that a huge corporation could take this open source project, lock people out from modifying while making huge profits. something doesnt seem right.
 
I would still buy it if it was hackable the way the DX is. I'm also waiting to hear on that news of Motorola may compromise the bootloader.
 
I have been an Android user for about 6 months now (D2). I have to admit that M should not lock the boot-loader, but understand that if they do not lock it down, there will be three times the returns for supposedly defective devices. Just take a look at all the threads on all the forums of people bricking their phones because they rooted and tinkered with ROM's.

They should give us a locked phone with the option to unlock at our own risk which would void the warranty should we unlock. They could fix it so if we unlocked the device, it could not be relocked to return for something we did or did not do to cause the bricking.
 
After much thought and motorola aggrivating me again yesterday with that bootloader stance i can't get this phone is love the freedom that is hard with my d1 and really miss it with the d2. So no matter how good this phone looks now in won't get it unless the bootloader is unlocked. I'll pick up the tb on a 1 year contract and wait for their dualcore offering
 
I voted "yes, I'll buy". Here's my reasoning ... I'm a newbie to the Android world, and I'm actually still rocking a BlackBerry. So, the next phone I get will be my first Android phone. I understand the freedom concerns, and particularly the open-source nature (my profession is a software developer and I take advantage of open source solutions where possible/practicable). But, I just don't think initially that I'll be into loading custom ROMs, etc., since it'll be my first experience with Android. That may change down the road as I learn more and can appreciate the experience more. But compared to my BlackBerry, even a stock Android experience is going to be much better than what I have.
 
I voted "yes, I'll buy". Here's my reasoning ... I'm a newbie to the Android world, and I'm actually still rocking a BlackBerry. So, the next phone I get will be my first Android phone. I understand the freedom concerns, and particularly the open-source nature (my profession is a software developer and I take advantage of open source solutions where possible/practicable). But, I just don't think initially that I'll be into loading custom ROMs, etc., since it'll be my first experience with Android. That may change down the road as I learn more and can appreciate the experience more. But compared to my BlackBerry, even a stock Android experience is going to be much better than what I have.

It will only take you a couple months for you to be VERY comfy with Android. Trust me, you'll want to root and play with custom roms as soon as you are a little more familiar.
 
/\+1 it took me a total of 3 months to root and start flashing roms. I have flashed at least 1 rom a month since then
 
Boot loader is a great pointof access to hack/hijack your phone/info. The more these devices operate like computers, some security is desirable. I think good companies should spend the time/money to protect you. Knowing that some like SU assess, there should be a way to exploit the device for development purposes, and because android is OS software, finding that medium is the challenge. The company that does that best, in my book, will have a great reputation to professionals (that will never operate privately on a exploitable device) and to OS developers by giving them an option to sign motorola is not responsible for your device, and your warranty is void, then proceed to give you a open bootlaoder. That is how moto needs to do it. Even though at best 1 in 100 hack their phones, that number adds up, and we need open boot loaders to be happy.
 
I was pretty set on the Bionic but now I'll probably go with an hTC device again continue to reap the rewards of the great XDA guys. I just hope hTC has a dual-core Gingerbread phone at MWC.
 
Locked bootloaders makes it feel like I didn't buy my phone but instead renting it.

I do like the bigger screen of the DX and so far I'm happy with it but this phone is still new to me and I want to play around with it. Until I want to fully customize my phone, then I won't like the phone as much but for now, it's good.

But next January, I will be looking into HTC devices. Just sucks that as of right now DX is the only 4.3" screen device for VZW that is out.
 
Just take a look at all the threads on all the forums of people bricking their phones because they rooted and tinkered with ROM's.

Is this really all that common? I thought most problems caused by rooting and flashing could be fixed...
 
Just take a look at all the threads on all the forums of people bricking their phones because they rooted and tinkered with ROM's.

These are all guesses on my part. I have no figures to back this up (how could I?):
1) A very small percentage of Android users are rooting and loading roms
2) Of them, a small percentage "brick" their phones. Most of use have no issues, at least ones that can't be fixed by asking the forums
3) The people who learn to load roms from the forums usually learn to revert/fix the problem form those same forums. Like you said, they are in the forums asking for help. Every "help" thread I read ended in the person being able to get their device back to normal.

Which brings me to this: I wonder how many, if any, people on these forums have actually loaded a rom, had it mess things up, then returned the messed up phone. I would guess none, or very, very few. I could be wrong.

Anyway, I agree that the manufacturers probably have some sort of responsibility to make devices that do not work against the carriers wishes (like tethering). To go out of their way to disappoint a small, vocal, passionate % of their user base is strange behavior, though. I would guess that 6 months of data with a locked bootloader looks just the same as 6 months with a locked bootloader in the manufacturer and carrier metrics. I doubt there is one thing they can point to and say "See, it made a significant difference here!" I think they just want to be "smarter" than the hackers. The hackers and enthusiasts just want the ability to use their expensive hardware like Google intended, not like [X manufacturer] or [X carrier] intended.

I certainly could be wrong, but I don't think I am.
 
I don't want a phone to be a "hobby". hence, i never installed "leaked" OS's on my BB. I have no plans to root, ROM, or otherwise tinker with my phone. I just want a reliable messaging phone with great internet connectivity (speed and large screen).
 
The one and only thing that is keeping me aprehensive about buying this phone is the locked bootloader. I do not even know if I would even feel a need to change it, but I want the option. The whole point of Android is open freedom so we will see I guess.
 
Could care less about the bootloader. I just want a phone that works great out of the box without having to spend time tweaking it.
 
Could care less about the bootloader. I just want a phone that works great out of the box without having to spend time tweaking it.

No offense, but I think you might be missing the point here. It's not a matter of "needing" to "tweak" the phones. It's that within the Android community there are those who are nothing short of brilliant and anytime you get a large group of intelligent people together in one place, talking about the same thing, great ideas will be discovered.

Many of these ideas are incorporated into projects like CyanogenMOD and other ROM's like it. These ideas might be simple performance tweaks or they might be whole new features that Google's dev team hasn't even dreamed up yet.

The problem many of us have with Motorola's philosophy on this is not that we believe the phone will not be usable out of the box. It's that we want to have the ability (should we choose to do so) to experiment with this great OS and the amazing hardware that companies keep putting out with this OS.

That's not saying that *everyone* needs to root and play with custom ROM's. I know many friends who I've talked into getting Android devices and they ask me "Should I root it and stuff?" The whole decision of whether or not to root really just depends on what you want to do and why you think you need to. Often, after talking to people, they don't need to root. In fact most of my Android-owning friends don't root. I waited almost six months after getting my phone to decide to do it, and I love the ability I now have to change anything.

That said, I'm a computer programmer for a living and I've been learning to write applications for Android so I have a fairly good understanding of what I'm doing. Many people don't. And that's OK.

Another user several replies up made the comment about "Carriers should just give customers to option to unlock the phone and void their warranty." That is, effectively, what most manufacturers are doing with the way they are designing the hardware now. They don't *really* want you to unlock the phone, but it's possible. Motorola has gone a step further by introducing hardware that makes the phone unusable if you unlock it. Practically all phones have a "locked" boot loader. It's this extra little chip that "polices" the boot loader to make sure it stays locked that most people are upset about.

If you're not the tech savy type who just wants a great phone with the features, then by all means grab the phone you like best. For many of the rest of us (and it's not a small percentage, M, if you're reading) we're going to pass on the big M's products until they figure out they're better off making devices that people actually want to buy.
 
Another user several replies up made the comment about "Carriers should just give customers to option to unlock the phone and void their warranty." That is, effectively, what most manufacturers are doing with the way they are designing the hardware now. They don't *really* want you to unlock the phone, but it's possible. Motorola has gone a step further by introducing hardware that makes the phone unusable if you unlock it. Practically all phones have a "locked" boot loader. It's this extra little chip that "polices" the boot loader to make sure it stays locked that most people are upset about.

I actually think it would be an interesting option if they sold a version of the phones (probably special order online) with an extra contract stating that you are buying an "Unlocked" version of their product with the understanding and agreement that you will not have any type of warranty with the device and that if the carrier has evidence that you are misusing their services: I.E. tethering and utilizing an extreme amount of data (like over the 5GB that is contracted), they have the right to cancel your service.

That way Moto would save money without having to worry about having to honor any contracts, and the buyer accepts full liability for what they do with the device. Of course, I have no idea if the carrier would still update these devices themselves, but knowing the community of people that would purchase it, that would not matter anyways.

Would you be more likely to buy a device that offered that?
 
I actually think it would be an interesting option if they sold a version of the phones (probably special order online) with an extra contract stating that you are buying an "Unlocked" version of their product with the understanding and agreement that you will not have any type of warranty with the device and that if the carrier has evidence that you are misusing their services: I.E. tethering and utilizing an extreme amount of data (like over the 5GB that is contracted), they have the right to cancel your service.

That way Moto would save money without having to worry about having to honor any contracts, and the buyer accepts full liability for what they do with the device. Of course, I have no idea if the carrier would still update these devices themselves, but knowing the community of people that would purchase it, that would not matter anyways.

Would you be more likely to buy a device that offered that?
Moto's "official" stance is that the measures they take are to protect their proprietary code, not necessarily to keep people out. Well, to keep people out so they won't attempt to reproduce their code. but it doesn't have anything to do with honoring a contract.