Bootloader

[corymcnutt]

I don't want a phone to be a "hobby". hence, i never installed "leaked" OS's on my BB. I have no plans to root, ROM, or otherwise tinker with my phone. I just want a reliable messaging phone with great internet connectivity (speed and large screen).

Dave, are you going to try the 4.3" screen? I know you were a little hesitant about going that big?

 

[corymcnutt]

The one and only thing that is keeping me aprehensive about buying this phone is the locked bootloader. I do not even know if I would even feel a need to change it, but I want the option. The whole point of Android is open freedom so we will see I guess.

You know what they say...too much freedom can cause anarchy, ha! I would leave mine as is, but I understand that some people enjoy that...didn't Moto "lighten up" on their stance since their first statement?

 

[Stang68]

I will still buy because my Droid X has a locked bootloader and it is running rooted Apex 1.3.1 and I love it.

 

[edoublediz]

not inciting here, just curious. has anyone like the above poster ever had a phone that allows for full rooting and roming? i feel if they had, their opinion would differ. if you have never experienced full roming at the kernel level, you dont know what your missing! on the other hand, people of differing opinion have had this capability and know what we would be missing.

 

[1812dave]

Dave, are you going to try the 4.3" screen? I know you were a little hesitant about going that big?

me, hesitant? nope! Maybe you got me confused with someone else, cory? I've always wanted a larger cell phone. I just don't want a large tablet (10")

 

[Bushido Brown]

not inciting here, just curious. has anyone like the above poster ever had a phone that allows for full rooting and roming? i feel if they had, their opinion would differ. if you have never experienced full roming at the kernel level, you dont know what your missing! on the other hand, people of differing opinion have had this capability and know what we would be missing.

First off, I thought I would give an abbreviated version of this post to help inform some of the newcomers to Android who may be misinformed. You can just read this paragraph, and nothing else - A rooted Droid device, WITH a locked bootloader can still: wifi tether, change framework(theme your device), change your splash screen, change your boot animation, remove pre-installed, otherwise uninstallable apps, overclock your device, and flash ROMs in the same vein as AOSP built roms. I know you've been beat over the head about how they are "locked down" but its really just an exaggeration.

Concerning the quoted portion of my post:
Follow a kernel thread on XDA, and you'll see about 10 different opinions on the effects. Some will say "its rock solid, battery life has not been any better" some will say "my touchscreen stopped working" which only further makes me believe they're insignificant.

Some advantages to flashing a new kernel were to enable a FM radio on the N1, well, all of the current Moto's already have this feature. Some EVO kernels lifted the FPS cap, well, Moto didn't have such a cap. Some altered charging algorithms to eliminate having to "top off" well, Moto phones don't have such a problem. and the most common purpose of an alternative kernel, is to overclock their phones, which I guess is useful to some, but the work that was done to the Milestone, and now the DX,D2, and DPro proved that you don't need to build a custom kernel to achieve this hack.

Honestly, from my observation that has spanned going all the way back to Android 1.0 on the G1, the biggest advantage to having COMPLETE control over your device, is to fix manufacturer oversights. I don't know about anyone else, that doesn't sound all too appealing to me. This whole "freedom" thing is starting to remind me of those wackos waving their Berettas around, quoting the 2nd amendment. Lock my bootloader, and you take away the right to shoot the Queen of England when she breaks into my home. Its borderline paranoia.

 

[thebizz]

It's more than just kernels its the ability to sbf without fear of only using this version of the sbf so. I don't brick my phone. Do I have the ability to miui which would need a different kernel. I personally would rather have the options so I'm choosing to leave motorola alone. And long term I don't want to be stuck on whatever motorola leaves my phone with. I want to know even through motorola leaves us with say froyo I can get gingerbread etc on my phone

 

[Bushido Brown]

It's more than just kernels its the ability to sbf without fear of only using this version of the sbf so. I don't brick my phone. Do I have the ability to miui which would need a different kernel. I personally would rather have the options so I'm choosing to leave motorola alone. And long term I don't want to be stuck on whatever motorola leaves my phone with. I want to know even through motorola leaves us with say froyo I can get gingerbread etc on my phone

There is a MIUI rom on the Milestone, and that has a signed bootloader as well. Seems like it just a matter of someone with know how/give a damn getting their hands on a DX and attempting to port is the only thing holding it back. There may be other roadblocks I'm not aware of. I dunno because I haven't been keeping up with that.

 

[thebizz]

miui was an example guess not a very good one I really don't know I don't want a signed bootloader but the hardware is very hard to get past man this is a top notch phone. I'm going to take my time and decide

 

[Stagger0]

Something I don't think has been discussed yet- The Bionic is running a Tegra 250 chipset. The Viewsonic G-tab has already been rooted with that chipset has it not? So Moto will probably leave the bootloader "locked" but I bet it would be quite a bit easier to work around than the TI OMAPs would it not?

 

[thebizz]

depends on what they cook up for the bootloader etc it could be worse than what we have now

 

[Chris Kerrigan]

depends on what they cook up for the bootloader etc it could be worse than what we have now

Which wouldn't surprise me. Motorola obviously has every intention of staying the course, so they're gonna do theirs best to make it even harder on the next gen of devices.

 

[thebizz]

Yep I'm going to give it some time I've already heard what they have cooking is much worse than what we have now guess I will see

 

[Bushido Brown]

Something I don't think has been discussed yet- The Bionic is running a Tegra 250 chipset. The Viewsonic G-tab has already been rooted with that chipset has it not? So Moto will probably leave the bootloader "locked" but I bet it would be quite a bit easier to work around than the TI OMAPs would it not?

See, this is the kinda thing I was talking about. All this FUD over the bootloader leads people on to the impression that the phone is unhackable, or very difficult to hack. Gaining root access is inevitable. A signed bootloader does little, if anything to hinder that process. In this regard, it is actually HTC who installs security measures that are designed to discourage root access. but whatever, I've been saying the same thing for a few days now, lol. I don't think anyone cares.

Not you specifically, but in general.

 

[Bushido Brown]

miui was an example guess not a very good one I really don't know I don't want a signed bootloader but the hardware is very hard to get past man this is a top notch phone. I'm going to take my time and decide

sooo...you don't want a signed bootloader because.....man, screw that, I don't want a signed bootloader, lol.

That actually sounds about right, to be honest. In my top 3 list of reasons, that's like #3, right behind "cuz I can flash a kernel" and "cuz I can flash cyanogen"

 

[thebizz]

Let's say motorola just leaves the d2 on froyo without a leaked version of gb do you think the d2 will ever a halfway functional port of gb doubt it. That's just one of the reasons I don't call boot strap a viable work around if I can't get into a custom recovery, without booting into android its a waste I want to be able to restore a nandroid backup if my system is hosed that's out of the option with the current work around and doubt it will happen with future devices

 

[tmacfan4321]

Boot loader is a great pointof access to hack/hijack your phone/info. The more these devices operate like computers, some security is desirable. I think good companies should spend the time/money to protect you. Knowing that some like SU assess, there should be a way to exploit the device for development purposes, and because android is OS software, finding that medium is the challenge. The company that does that best, in my book, will have a great reputation to professionals (that will never operate privately on a exploitable device) and to OS developers by giving them an option to sign motorola is not responsible for your device, and your warranty is void, then proceed to give you a open bootlaoder. That is how moto needs to do it. Even though at best 1 in 100 hack their phones, that number adds up, and we need open boot loaders to be happy.

Can you give me an example of an exploit that ever took advantage of an unlocked booloader to flash malicious software without the user's authorization?

This is a BS excuse for Motorola to force obsolescence on their customers. You're more likely to buy a new Motorola phone if you can't update to a newer version of Android with your current one.

See, this is the kinda thing I was talking about. All this FUD over the bootloader leads people on to the impression that the phone is unhackable, or very difficult to hack. Gaining root access is inevitable. A signed bootloader does little, if anything to hinder that process. In this regard, it is actually HTC who installs security measures that are designed to discourage root access. but whatever, I've been saying the same thing for a few days now, lol. I don't think anyone cares.

Root access is inevitable for any Android phone with any semblance of a developer community. Root is useful, but cannot be considered to be that much of an asset, IMO. It doesn't give you full access to the phone and does not give you full discretion over what happens on the phone in terms of updates or custom ROMs in general.

HTC does not do anything even close to what Motorola does to discourage ROM development. A locked bootloader is much, much more difficult to get around than a NAND lock. The original time that it took for the dev community to get NAND unlocked for the Evo and Incredible was around two months. New HTC phones get S-OFF hacks within weeks. The bootloader for the Milestone still hasn't been fully unlocked yet and that phone is over a year old. The D2 and DX will probably never have their bootloaders unlocked because of eFuse.

Which wouldn't surprise me. Motorola obviously has every intention of staying the course, so they're gonna do theirs best to make it even harder on the next gen of devices.

What was with their statement about working on a solution for people interested in unlocked bootloaders? Why would they even make a statement like that?

 

[Bushido Brown]

Let's say motorola just leaves the d2 on froyo without a leaked version of gb do you think the d2 will ever a halfway functional port of gb doubt it. That's just one of the reasons I don't call boot strap a viable work around if I can't get into a custom recovery, without booting into android its a waste I want to be able to restore a nandroid backup if my system is hosed that's out of the option with the current work around and doubt it will happen with future devices

What precedence do you have to support such an idea? The DX got an update, the Droid 1 got several updates. What evidence do you have to support that it won't get a leak? D1 got a leak, the DX got a Froyo leak. D2 was obviously released with Froyo. Why would Motorola all of a sudden stop supporting their phones? Besides, this thread is about the Bionic, which I'm pretty certain will launch with Gingerbread anyway.

Even if your phone doesn't bootstrap, AND you don't have a functional SBF, all you have to do (all I ever did whenever my phone wouldn't bootstrap) is to hold down X key while powering on to boot into stock recovery, pull the battery, then reboot. Presto, bootstrap. Again, this is assuming the 1st 2 things are even issues in the 1st place.

 

[Bushido Brown]

Can you give me an example of an exploit that ever took advantage of an unlocked booloader to flash malicious software without the user's authorization?

This is a BS excuse for Motorola to force obsolescence on their customers. You're more likely to buy a new Motorola phone if you can't update to a newer version of Android with your current one.

lol, it never ends

 

[thebizz]

What precedence do you have to support such an idea? The DX got an update, the Droid 1 got several updates. What evidence do you have to support that it won't get a leak? D1 got a leak, the DX got a Froyo leak. D2 was obviously released with Froyo. Why would Motorola all of a sudden stop supporting their phones? Besides, this thread is about the Bionic, which I'm pretty certain will launch with Gingerbread anyway.

Even if your phone doesn't bootstrap, AND you don't have a functional SBF, all you have to do (all I ever did whenever my phone wouldn't bootstrap) is to hold down X key while powering on to boot into stock recovery, pull the battery, then reboot. Presto, bootstrap. Again, this is assuming the 1st 2 things are even issues in the 1st place.

I'm not saying that motorola won't release gb for the d2 I pretty much know it will get it. I was simply using gb as an example
and bootstrap doesn't work if your phone won't boot into android (hosed system) sbf without the phone bootable pain in the but and it often fails. Because you may not have all the stock Apps