Does the DAC play thru anything?

[TNCattleDog]

This may shed light on what a DAC actually does...

https://www.headphone.com/pages/what-is-a-dac

David

 

[JkdJedi]

A DAC is not an amplifier which will make the bass have more punch and the headphones sound louder. Is your external DAC hooked up to an amplifier too?

David

It's the Fiio18, has the amp built in for headphones and a line out for speakers and/or headphones. This hooked up to my(LG3) Audio Technica M50 sounds rich and FULL. I suspected that the rich but flat sound with these same headphones connected to the LGv20 might be because of the above mentioned no power amp, yet there's no mention of it anywhere in reviews that I've seen so far. Then I see thread of a so called high impedance hack, would this aid in a fuller sound? Also while playing with icon size settings moving them to small and back to normal triggered that full amazing sound for a split second!! Is Verizon throttling the DAC on this thing too!! Still, the sound is amazing, every note played on Tidal HiFi 16 bit FLAC files sound amazing and nicely separated and harmonised at the same time, yet the sound is still flat.
But wait! In press release the LGv20 is listed as a headphone amp as well, so what gives?" Android Authority says "Delving into the press release reveals that the ES9218 is a 32-bit 394kHz and DSD512 capable component, with some nifty sounding analog audio controls, jitter controls, and integrated headphone amplifier". so does it have an amp or no?

 

[irvine752]

Well to be fair.. On ear / over ear are going to have way better bass and things versus ear buds. Regardless of the DAC. .

This sounds like an outdated generalization my mom would make...and yes, this statement doesn't hold true anymore. The sound quality of in-ear headphones (ear buds) can be just as good or if not better than some on-ear or over-ear models, but they do tend to be a bit less open or airy. They are also tend to be very finicky unless you can get a proper seal. Without a proper seal it leads to a very minimal bass response.

 

[irvine752]

It's the Fiio18, has the amp built in for headphones and a line out for speakers and/or headphones. This hooked up to my(LG3) Audio Technica M50 sounds rich and FULL. I suspected that the rich but flat sound with these same headphones connected to the LGv20 might be because of the above mentioned no power amp, yet there's no mention of it anywhere in reviews that I've seen so far. Then I see thread of a so called high impedance hack, would this aid in a fuller sound? Also while playing with icon size settings moving them to small and back to normal triggered that full amazing sound for a split second!! Is Verizon throttling the DAC on this thing too!! Still, the sound is amazing, every note played on Tidal HiFi 16 bit FLAC files sound amazing and nicely separated and harmonised at the same time, yet the sound is still flat.
But wait! In press release the LGv20 is listed as a headphone amp as well, so what gives?" Android Authority says "Delving into the press release reveals that the ES9218 is a 32-bit 394kHz and DSD512 capable component, with some nifty sounding analog audio controls, jitter controls, and integrated headphone amplifier". so does it have an amp or no?

It does have an Amp & it's actually embedded in the quad DAC chipset. If you take a peek at the schematics of the chipset you should be able to spot it out. The headphone amp can get as high as a 2Vrms output signal, which should help to reduce the effects of signal loss with headphones of different impedance. The analog volume control (75 stage) also steps up with the impedance stage (normal, external & high impedance) up to the 2Vrms.

Your M50s should be easy to drive in external mode. The impedance is on the lower end of the cut off (around 50 ohms) hence they register as normal. As you have already noticed it's hard to drive them in normal mode even with the analog all the way up to 75. The quickest way to get these registered as external (only if you have a removable cable mod) would be to remove the detachable AUX cable from the headset first..then plug the cable alone to the phone, then attach the cable to the headphones.

For a rich sound, I would also look up some of the threads discussions on the DAC & music players. We have actually had a couple lengthy discussions about the effects of the DAC before. If you try out some of the suggestions that should help.

 

[irvine752]

So I got curious and plugged in my son's Beats Audio over the ear headphones and they were detected as "normal audio device". Playing Lorde "Royals" (my go to dynamic range test track in FLAC), it does sound better than my normal earbuds and much better than my LG TONE bluetooth headset, especially the bass which is expected because the driver is much larger than the buds or Tone.

WIll have to wait for my B&O buds to see if I can tell a difference.

Tried a direct connection to the AUX out in my Infiniti's Bose which was detected as a "High Impedance device" but really couldn't tell the difference between the V20 and playing the track off the head units built in hard drive. In both cases I can feel the bass on my pants leg and my rear view mirror vibrates.

David

The bass heavy sound from Beats & Bose shouldn't be much of surprise at all. Both brands are well known for not providing a neutral sound. They tend to provide a V shaped sound signature with heavy emphasis on the treble & bass frequencies with not much to offer in the midrange. When you play a bass heavy track it's not so great & the bass is out of control with no proper attenuation to differentiate the types of bass.

The headphones are easily replaceable but the car system not so much. I too have a Bose system with my Q50 Redsport & I can only tolerate the sound for a track or two before my ears start bleeding. I actually prefer the Burmester system from my Macan for audio tracks. The B&O headphones are more neutral with a decent sound stage, but they do require a burn-in period before any serious listening sessions.

 

[JkdJedi]

It does have an Amp & it's actually embedded in the quad DAC chipset. If you take a peek at the schematics of the chipset you should be able to spot it out. The headphone amp can get as high as a 2Vrms output signal, which should help to reduce the effects of signal loss with headphones of different impedance. The analog volume control (75 stage) also steps up with the impedance stage (normal, external & high impedance) up to the 2Vrms.

Your M50s should be easy to drive in external mode. The impedance is on the lower end of the cut off (around 50 ohms) hence they register as normal. As you have already noticed it's hard to drive them in normal mode even with the analog all the way up to 75. The quickest way to get these registered as external (only if you have a removable cable mod) would be to remove the detachable AUX cable from the headset first..then plug the cable alone to the phone, then attach the cable to the headphones.

For a rich sound, I would also look up some of the threads discussions on the DAC & music players. We have actually had a couple lengthy discussions about the effects of the DAC before. If you try out some of the suggestions that should help.

Thanks, think I found something that might have attributed to my mixed reactions to the DAC, it's really good, I turned off Loudness Normalization and with a little help of Equalization..got the M50 to rattle a little.. Can't wait to hear what the Phillips X2 sounds. ( I don't have the M50x cans, my M50 cable is permanently attached so was not able to do that hack)

 

[Almeuit]

This sounds like an outdated generalization my mom would make...and yes, this statement doesn't hold true anymore. The sound quality of in-ear headphones (ear buds) can be just as good or if not better than some on-ear or over-ear models, but they do tend to be a bit less open or airy. They are also tend to be very finicky unless you can get a proper seal. Without a proper seal it leads to a very minimal bass response.

Even if your mom would make it -- still true. My Bose headphones sound great on an old iPhone with more bass than any earbuds could produce.

 

[Mike Dee]

Even if your mom would make it -- still true. My Bose headphones sound great on an old iPhone with more bass than any earbuds could produce.

Agreed....a good pair of headphones beats a good pair of ear buds.

 

[irvine752]

Even if your mom would make it -- still true. My Bose headphones sound great on an old iPhone with more bass than any earbuds could produce.

I wouldn't say any ear buds either, well maybe just a few low end models. If you tell me your specific model, I can name a few in-ears models that have better accurate deep bass. As for Bose, there isn't anything nothing terribly wrong with the brand, but there is usually something better to be had for less money.

Bose (and even Beats) are really lifestyle brands that are more about good looks & features rather than performance. They tend to have a bad rep among audiophiles who know what the alternatives are, but they really shouldn't blame either brand at all since they have done well convincing the blind public that they are the top of the line in quality when that is really not the case. This is from a mix of aggressive in-store sales pitching (Bose), snake-oily commercials (Beats), and perceived quality based on price (It's really expensive so it must be great!)

 

[Almeuit]

I wouldn't say any ear buds either, well maybe just a few low end models. If you tell me your specific model, I can name a few in-ears models that have better accurate deep bass. As for Bose, there isn't anything nothing terribly wrong with the brand, but there is usually something better to be had for less money.

Bose (and even Beats) are really lifestyle brands that are more about good looks & features rather than performance. They tend to have a bad rep among audiophiles who know what the alternatives are, but they really shouldn't blame either brand at all since they have done well convincing the blind public that they are the top of the line in quality when that is really not the case. This is from a mix of aggressive in-store sales pitching (Bose), snake-oily commercials (Beats), and perceived quality based on price (It's really expensive so it must be great!)

And I agree. I bought them due a massive deal I got on them back in the day -- otherwise I never would. My point commenting here though wasn't to debate which headphones are good or not but using something (even if overpriced) like Bose or Beats versus some standard ear buds .. Well .. Self-explanatory. It will be better regardless of DAC .

 

[JkdJedi]

https://www.cnet.com/topics/headphones/best-headphones/over-the-ear/

 

[JkdJedi]

I've tried the Grados on this list..Superb for Jazz. Ready to try the Philips X2 (not on the list)

 

[mjcecil]

This may shed light on what a DAC actually does...

https://www.headphone.com/pages/what-is-a-dac

David

The entertaining part about this is that the article spends quite a bit of time talking about how analog is ENcoded, and the attributes of the encoding that make for better or worse reproduction, but it makes absolutely zero reference as to how a DAC works, and why in the world having four of them (if sub-DACs can really be considered separate) is better than one. It just says, "Yeah... you know how your music is digital when it's in your device? The DAC is the thing that makes it NOT digital when it comes out."




Mind you, I get why... Pretty much the moment you head off into those weeds you've lost most folks(including myself, despite having some ancient background in this material), either due to boredom, or, well, more boredom.

Cheers!

Mark

 

[middbrew]

It does have an Amp & it's actually embedded in the quad DAC chipset. If you take a peek at the schematics of the chipset you should be able to spot it out. The headphone amp can get as high as a 2Vrms output signal, which should help to reduce the effects of signal loss with headphones of different impedance. The analog volume control (75 stage) also steps up with the impedance stage (normal, external & high impedance) up to the 2Vrms.

Your M50s should be easy to drive in external mode. The impedance is on the lower end of the cut off (around 50 ohms) hence they register as normal. As you have already noticed it's hard to drive them in normal mode even with the analog all the way up to 75. The quickest way to get these registered as external (only if you have a removable cable mod) would be to remove the detachable AUX cable from the headset first..then plug the cable alone to the phone, then attach the cable to the headphones.

For a rich sound, I would also look up some of the threads discussions on the DAC & music players. We have actually had a couple lengthy discussions about the effects of the DAC before. If you try out some of the suggestions that should help.

I'll take a look at the other threads. But if the V20 has an amp embedded in the chipset, is it going to be able to push enough power on it's own for say the Sennheiser HD650 headphones? That would be pretty amazing if it would.

 

[JkdJedi]

I'll take a look at the other threads. But if the V20 has an amp embedded in the chipset, is it going to be able to push enough power on it's own for say the Sennheiser HD650 headphones? That would be pretty amazing if it would.

Heard that the DAC sounds really good with the HD800 so the 650 should be easy.

 

[middbrew]

Heard that the DAC sounds really good with the HD800 so the 650 should be easy.

Very cool. Thanks.

 

[m5rahul]

Been using the V20 with my HD 650 and it.sounds.amazing !!

 

[middbrew]

https://www.cnet.com/topics/headphones/best-headphones/over-the-ear/

I looked at those as well. A lot of really nice cans on there. But I noticed only the MDR-1A comes close to the minimal 50ohms at 48ohms to trigger the high impedance device mode.

 

[middbrew]

Been using the V20 with my HD 650 and it.sounds.amazing !!

Very good to hear. I have some coming my way. I'm looking forward to trying them out.

 

[JkdJedi]

I looked at those as well. A lot of really nice cans on there. But I noticed only the MDR-1A comes close to the minimal 50ohms at 48ohms to trigger the high impedance device mode.

Great catch.. now I'm seriously considering the HD650 myself, might as well get a classic. And the price seems to have dropped as well. The reviews all mention the "outstanding headroom" these cans have. Important to me.