Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

[Ryano89]

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[galaxyfive]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

Or BlackBerry.

That was the case years ago. The most recent security patch for the Dtek60 (a one year old device) needs a "workaround" to install, and as far as I know BlackBerry still hasn't addressed a fix. As a Dtek60 owner I found out the hard way that I need to forget all about the BlackBerry I once knew and loved.

Support = EOL for anything but the model du jour.

 

[torbach1]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

So bottom line is probably something most of us knew. If monthly security updates are important to you, and you love Android, you've got one option - Google Pixel/Nexus, etc. I still find it hard to believe that if Samsung wanted to solve this problem, they couldn't. But I suspect that it will take a catastrophic malware event of some kind to change their behavior. The fact that many smaller vendors do a better job at this is annoying. Prior to vulnerabilities like Blueborne and KRACK, I was willing to live with the risk of delayed security updates. Being in cyber-security now, and with those, I'm no longer willing to do that. So unfortunately I have to not get my preferred phone - the Samsung, and get the Pixel XL 2 instead. Definitely a first world problem, and not the end of the world. Still unfortunate.

 

[monil]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

So bottom line is probably something most of us knew. If monthly security updates are important to you, and you love Android, you've got one option - Google Pixel/Nexus, etc. I still find it hard to believe that if Samsung wanted to solve this problem, they couldn't. But I suspect that it will take a catastrophic malware event of some kind to change their behavior. The fact that many smaller vendors do a better job at this is annoying. Prior to vulnerabilities like Blueborne and KRACK, I was willing to live with the risk of delayed security updates. Being in cyber-security now, and with those, I'm no longer willing to do that. So unfortunately I have to not get my preferred phone - the Samsung, and get the Pixel XL 2 instead. Definitely a first world problem, and not the end of the world. Still unfortunate.

Android is built on fragmentation and in US, the device manufacturer usually relies on the carriers to push the updates. Samsung is NOT delaying the updates, its the carriers. It does not want your phones to be infected with malware. Its not that Samsung cannot do anything. Its how the US cellular markets have been all throughout. Numerous people have come and gone saying "This is my last XXXXX phone". And what? Nothing changes.

Samsung even gave you an option to send in your phone / go to the service center to get the latest update. If you need the best Samsung experience and security updates, this was a viable solution, you choose to ignore it.

You have already discovered that moving to Pixel2 line is the best for you, go ahead. Its is a great phone no doubt.

Stop labeling this as a PSA.

You are not contributing anything apart from the age old information that Carriers hold the keys to push device updates. If you really care about instant updates, Use Apple/ Google.

 

[torbach1]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

Android is built on fragmentation and in US, the device manufacturer usually relies on the carriers to push the updates. Samsung is NOT delaying the updates, its the carriers. It does not want your phones to be infected with malware. Its not that Samsung cannot do anything. Its how the US cellular markets have been all throughout. Numerous people have come and gone saying "This is my last XXXXX phone". And what? Nothing changes.

Samsung even gave you an option to send in your phone / go to the service center to get the latest update. If you need the best Samsung experience and security updates, this was a viable solution, you choose to ignore it.

You have already discovered that moving to Pixel2 line is the best for you, go ahead. Its is a great phone no doubt.

Stop labeling this as a PSA.

You are not contributing anything apart from the age old information that Carriers hold the keys to push device updates. If you really care about instant updates, Use Apple/ Google.

I chose the title when I posted the original post. I'm just a regular member of the community like anyone else, and if I think it should be a PSA, I'll label it as such.

The reason I believe it is, is that there was a lot of discussion early on about whether this time, Samsung's unlocked phones would receive updates earlier and on time, and initially it looked that way, and people were posting that fact.

That's why I purchased one. So this is a PSA for others who were hoping that this year Samsung improved the update story for their US unlocked phones. If you don't like that, complain about it to the moderators, or if you are one, go ahead and delete it or change the title. I'm trying to help others avoid the mistake I made. Whether you think my mistake is because I'm ignorant or stupid really doesn't change anything. FWIW, I'm a huge Samsung fan. I'm extremely disappointed with them, and I completely disagree with you that they can't do better. HTC is doing better despite the fragmentation as is OnePlus. Both companies that are tiny.

 

[monil]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

I chose the title when I posted the original post. I'm just a regular member of the community like anyone else, and if I think it should be a PSA, I'll label it as such.

The reason I believe it is, is that there was a lot of discussion early on about whether this time, Samsung's unlocked phones would receive updates earlier and on time, and initially it looked that way, and people were posting that fact.

That's why I purchased one. So this is a PSA for others who were hoping that this year Samsung improved the update story for their US unlocked phones. If you don't like that, complain about it to the moderators, or if you are one, go ahead and delete it or change the title. I'm trying to help others avoid the mistake I made. Whether you think my mistake is because I'm ignorant or stupid really doesn't change anything. FWIW, I'm a huge Samsung fan. I'm extremely disappointed with them, and I completely disagree with you that they can't do better. HTC is doing better despite the fragmentation as is OnePlus. Both companies that are tiny.

I don't know where you or any one got the idea that Samsung Unlocked phones are going to get faster updated. There is no source. Also, Samsung neither ever mentioned/ committed to the fact that this is going to change. If there was a claim, sure, it would deserve to be a PSA as the corporation acted falsely.

In this case, there were assumptions made about this and you accepted that and are not happy that the the assumptions were crap.

Samsung has inherently worked within the realms of carriers and that would take decades to change.
Samsung has always delivered the security updates to carriers. Its them who is at fault and not Samsung. Once, complain to the carriers and see what they have to say. Ask the carriers when did they receive the security patches and when is it going to be distributed.

Samsung gave you an alternative to get faster updates, but, its not your preferred mode.

Also, things will change with Oreo. Project Treble may make it easier for carriers to distribute the updates faster. But, unfortunately, at this moment, you are at mercy with the carriers.

I am not saying that Samsung cannot do better, I simply saying that US carriers control the distribution.

I still stand by my claim that this post does NOT deserve to be a PSA. Entitlements do not deserve PSA.

 

[torbach1]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

I don't know where you or any one got the idea that Samsung Unlocked phones are going to get faster updated. There is no source.

From folks on this forum who posted about it.

In this case, there were assumptions made about this and you accepted that and are not happy that the the assumptions were crap.

I'm not the only one who made those assumptions. For most phone manufacturers, unlocked devices are the first to get updates.

Samsung has inherently worked within the realms of carriers and that would take decades to change.
Samsung has always delivered the security updates to carriers. Its them who is at fault and not Samsung. Once, complain to the carriers and see what they have to say. Ask the carriers when did they receive the security patches and when is it going to be distributed.

So even for US Unlocked phones that they cell that are not tied to any network, they're dependent on carriers? That's what they told me too, but it makes no sense, and again, other manufacturers are not dependent on those carriers for official unlocked phones.

Samsung gave you an alternative to get faster updates, but, its not your preferred mode.

The alternative they gave me is a joke, and you know it. When they had their "Samsung Experience" centers at Best Buy, which was supposed to be their way of competing with Apple's stores, that would have been reasonable. But right after telling me that's where I should go, when they heard that those are all closed, they admitted that the contract they had with Best Buy ended on 12/31.

Also, things will change with Oreo. Project Treble may make it easier for carriers to distribute the updates faster. But, unfortunately, at this moment, you are at mercy with the carriers.

Yes, I'm aware of that, and hoping that will allow me go to back to Samsung.

I am not saying that Samsung cannot do better, I simply saying that US carriers control the distribution.

Please help me understand how it is that the US carriers control the official US Unlocked version of Samsung phones? Which carrier is responsible for shipping out an update that isn't theirs and has none of their proprietary software on it?

I still stand by my claim that this post does NOT deserve to be a PSA. Entitlements do not deserve PSA.

Unfortunately I can't edit the title of the post. The site does not allow me to. So I can't change it to a non-PSA.

I love Samsung. I have their TVs, washer dryers, etc. I'm a huge fan. But I find your defense of them to be frankly weak. They can and should do a lot better by their clients. They make phenomenal hardware, and even software for their phones. I prefer the Samsung UI to Stock. They're innovating in a huge way. All I'm asking is for them to apply some of that time to security updates for a phone they sell officially through both Samsung.com and Best Buy as an Unlocked phone. That should not depend on carriers regardless of the legacy. I don't think I'm asking too much from them, and I doubt many others think so either. We need to hole the vendors we love accountable so that they improve, not let them get away with things that are solvable. If this wasn't solvable, then Google wouldn't have solved it with the Pixel, Blackberry wouldn't have solved it, and HTC wouldn't have solved it. It's solvable, and again, as someone who is in cyber security, I can tell you that security issues are far worse than what you're reading in the news, and getting worse by the month. Until July 2017, I would have been fine, and was fine with the security update cadence that Samsung had. Since then, I'm not. I know what's out there, and it's way worse than what's in the news. If this type of message doesn't get to Samsung, then sooner or later, they'll pay a very hefty price when a whole lot of their phones are hacked without user involvement.

 

[Gayle Lynn]

Maybe unlocked means it has to work with all carriers?

Other countries and lower tier can do a public beta PSA.

Essential, like Pixel, is finding that initial 8.0 too buggy and now trying to get 8.1 Oreo pushed out.

No winners.

Google's project treble has been in the works for awhile. Just as their slow move to a 64 bit only system. Play Protect is another area. 100k Dev accounts blocked and closed in 2017 along with removing 3/4 if a million "bad" apps. No idea how many downloads and infected systems.

Old phones, out of support security and is us an issue being addressed. A slim down OS to be able to run on systems with say 1GB or less RAM. Google GO.

I bought 3 blackberry phones but was disappointed. Lived Huawei but the 10 isn't coming to ATT USA.

I cannot stand the software Samsung uses on their Smart TV.

 

[monil]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

From folks on this forum who posted about it.



I'm not the only one who made those assumptions. For most phone manufacturers, unlocked devices are the first to get updates.


So even for US Unlocked phones that they cell that are not tied to any network, they're dependent on carriers? That's what they told me too, but it makes no sense, and again, other manufacturers are not dependent on those carriers for official unlocked phones.

The alternative they gave me is a joke, and you know it. When they had their "Samsung Experience" centers at Best Buy, which was supposed to be their way of competing with Apple's stores, that would have been reasonable. But right after telling me that's where I should go, when they heard that those are all closed, they admitted that the contract they had with Best Buy ended on 12/31.


Yes, I'm aware of that, and hoping that will allow me go to back to Samsung.


Please help me understand how it is that the US carriers control the official US Unlocked version of Samsung phones? Which carrier is responsible for shipping out an update that isn't theirs and has none of their proprietary software on it?



Unfortunately I can't edit the title of the post. The site does not allow me to. So I can't change it to a non-PSA.

I love Samsung. I have their TVs, washer dryers, etc. I'm a huge fan. But I find your defense of them to be frankly weak. They can and should do a lot better by their clients. They make phenomenal hardware, and even software for their phones. I prefer the Samsung UI to Stock. They're innovating in a huge way. All I'm asking is for them to apply some of that time to security updates for a phone they sell officially through both Samsung.com and Best Buy as an Unlocked phone. That should not depend on carriers regardless of the legacy. I don't think I'm asking too much from them, and I doubt many others think so either. We need to hole the vendors we love accountable so that they improve, not let them get away with things that are solvable. If this wasn't solvable, then Google wouldn't have solved it with the Pixel, Blackberry wouldn't have solved it, and HTC wouldn't have solved it. It's solvable, and again, as someone who is in cyber security, I can tell you that security issues are far worse than what you're reading in the news, and getting worse by the month. Until July 2017, I would have been fine, and was fine with the security update cadence that Samsung had. Since then, I'm not. I know what's out there, and it's way worse than what's in the news. If this type of message doesn't get to Samsung, then sooner or later, they'll pay a very hefty price when a whole lot of their phones are hacked without user involvement.

I don't know which phone manufacturer provides unlocked versions swifter updates compared to carrier locked versions. Any manufacturer info?

There are lots of people who come and go on this forum. My usual rule of thumb is unless it comes from the official source, take everything heard/ seen with a grain of salt.

Here is Samsung providing which devices get monthly security updates:
https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb

Here is how and when Samsung developed a patch and passed it forward for distribution to the Carriers
https://security.samsungmobile.com/securityUpdate.smsb

Unfortunately, I do not seem to find the post (from some time ago which detailed and explained how this worked. I will share it as soon as i find it.

HTH. thnks. peace.

 

[torbach1]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

I don't know which phone manufacturer provides unlocked versions swifter updates compared to carrier locked versions. Any manufacturer info?

There are lots of people who come and go on this forum. My usual rule of thumb is unless it comes from the official source, take everything heard/ seen with a grain of salt.

Here is Samsung providing which devices get monthly security updates:
https://security.samsungmobile.com/workScope.smsb

Here is how and when Samsung developed a patch and passed it forward for distribution to the Carriers
https://security.samsungmobile.com/securityUpdate.smsb

Unfortunately, I do not seem to find the post (from some time ago which detailed and explained how this worked. I will share it as soon as i find it.

HTH. thnks. peace.

The link you sent that's Samsung's official page for updates states that the S series and the Note series will receive monthly updates every month. It has an asterisk... So they're not really being truthful on their own page. Anyway, yeah, peace.

 

[digitalbreak]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

Android is built on fragmentation and in US, the device manufacturer usually relies on the carriers to push the updates. Samsung is NOT delaying the updates, its the carriers. It does not want your phones to be infected with malware. Its not that Samsung cannot do anything. Its how the US cellular markets have been all throughout. Numerous people have come and gone saying "This is my last XXXXX phone". And what? Nothing changes.

Samsung even gave you an option to send in your phone / go to the service center to get the latest update. If you need the best Samsung experience and security updates, this was a viable solution, you choose to ignore it.

You have already discovered that moving to Pixel2 line is the best for you, go ahead. Its is a great phone no doubt.

Stop labeling this as a PSA.

You are not contributing anything apart from the age old information that Carriers hold the keys to push device updates. If you really care about instant updates, Use Apple/ Google.

Sorry, but the OP has a reasonable request and expectation when purchasing a phone from a manufacturer.

You are talking as if outside of the US, Samsung phones get monthly security updates and just the ones in the US are that way.

Apple proved us all wrong and has strong hold on their update policies. If other companies are not able to do that, users will complain. This is a public forum where users opt-in to discuss. So nothing wrong to keep discussing this here.

 

[monil]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

Sorry, but the OP has a reasonable request and expectation when purchasing a phone from a manufacturer.

You are talking as if outside of the US, Samsung phones get monthly security updates and just the ones in the US are that way.

Apple proved us all wrong and has strong hold on their update policies. If other companies are not able to do that, users will complain. This is a public forum where users opt-in to discuss. So nothing wrong to keep discussing this here.

I simply told the OP, this is not worthy of a PSA. Also, I never told him to get off the forum. Everyone has the right to their opinion; you, me and OP alike.

"Reasonable" is a very subjective. What is reasonable for one person will be different for another, right?

Sure, one can have expectations, but expectations need to be based on some actual facts. Here, expectations were set on a personal bias and opinion of some other users who may not have true information.

I did not mean to say that the Samsung phones purchased outside of US were getting quicker updates. Carriers still hold the master key to determine when the updates reach the end users even in the rest-of-the world.

Apple cannot be compared. Apple have controlled the hardware/ software from the day one just like Google did for the Nexus/ Pixel line. Also, Apple has been more into the Mac/ Tablets/ phones/ software world. Samsung provides a whole plethora of products apart from mobiles.

Beauty of Android is allowing multiple manufacturers come in and provide devices to their end users with providing enough customization.

Does this mean all manufacturers have the time and resources to provide updates? NO.
Does it mean Samsung does not have enough resources to push updates? NO.

I also posted security update timelines from Samsung in a later post. They do show that security patches were created/ shared further in the pipeline. So Samsung did their job as soon as vulnerabilities were fixed in the ASOP. Till now, carriers have dictated when devices get the security updates, and I do not see it changing (except Apple/ Pixel ).

And things are changing for good. As mentioned earlier, Project Treble may help ease this security updates mess in Android.

 

[monil]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

The link you sent that's Samsung's official page for updates states that the S series and the Note series will receive monthly updates every month. It has an asterisk... So they're not really being truthful on their own page. Anyway, yeah, peace.

https://security.samsungmobile.com/securityUpdate.smsb
I see that the fixes were done for SMR-JAN-2018. Not sure where they are "not" being truthful.

Hopefully, in a few days we should see the same for FEB too.

 

[torbach1]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

I simply told the OP, this is not worthy of a PSA. Also, I never told him to get off the forum. Everyone has the right to their opinion; you, me and OP alike.

"Reasonable" is a very subjective. What is reasonable for one person will be different for another, right?

Sure, one can have expectations, but expectations need to be based on some actual facts. Here, expectations were set on a personal bias and opinion of some other users who may not have true information.

I did not mean to say that the Samsung phones purchased outside of US were getting quicker updates. Carriers still hold the master key to determine when the updates reach the end users even in the rest-of-the world.

Apple cannot be compared. Apple have controlled the hardware/ software from the day one just like Google did for the Nexus/ Pixel line. Also, Apple has been more into the Mac/ Tablets/ phones/ software world. Samsung provides a whole plethora of products apart from mobiles.

Beauty of Android is allowing multiple manufacturers come in and provide devices to their end users with providing enough customization.

Does this mean all manufacturers have the time and resources to provide updates? NO.
Does it mean Samsung does not have enough resources to push updates? NO.

I also posted security update timelines from Samsung in a later post. They do show that security patches were created/ shared further in the pipeline. So Samsung did their job as soon as vulnerabilities were fixed in the ASOP. Till now, carriers have dictated when devices get the security updates, and I do not see it changing (except Apple/ Pixel ).

And things are changing for good. As mentioned earlier, Project Treble may help ease this security updates mess in Android.

I asked the admins to remove the phrase PSA, and they did. In all sincerity thought, one thing that is very confusing to me is why even the Unlocked version of Samsung's AOSP mods are dependent on carriers? I'm not questioning your reply. In fact that's what Samsung support told me too. I just don't understand why Samsung can't put these on some servers somewhere for official unlocked variants they sell. Huawei does this.

 

[torbach1]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

https://security.samsungmobile.com/securityUpdate.smsb
I see that the fixes were done for SMR-JAN-2018. Not sure where they are "not" being truthful.

Hopefully, in a few days we should see the same for FEB too.

My wife's S8 was on August until end of December...

 

[Gayle Lynn]

8.1 support

 

[D13H4RD2L1V3]

https://security.samsungmobile.com/securityUpdate.smsb
I see that the fixes were done for SMR-JAN-2018. Not sure where they are "not" being truthful.

Hopefully, in a few days we should see the same for FEB too.

That doesn't mean it's being rolled out at the time the bulletin was published.

My international unbranded unlocked Note8 is still on December.

It being unlocked and unbranded means that updates come directly from Samsung.

 

[monil]

That doesn't mean it's being rolled out at the time the bulletin was published.

My international unbranded unlocked Note8 is still on December.

It being unlocked and unbranded means that updates come directly from Samsung.

I still beg to differ. I too had that thought when I bought the same from Samsung. But, turns out Carriers screw consumers royally. Guess Apple's fanbase/ popularity has allowed Apple to be in commanding position rather than cave in to the carriers. How / why that happens beats me. I wish it would change, one day.

 

[monil]

Re: PSA. Don't buy US Unlocked Note 8 if you care for quick security updates

I asked the admins to remove the phrase PSA, and they did. In all sincerity thought, one thing that is very confusing to me is why even the Unlocked version of Samsung's AOSP mods are dependent on carriers? I'm not questioning your reply. In fact that's what Samsung support told me too. I just don't understand why Samsung can't put these on some servers somewhere for official unlocked variants they sell. Huawei does this.

Again, beats me why carriers drive the updates even on the Unlocked variants. Phew. Thanks.

 

[Ry]

Unlocked, no-carrier is irrelevant. It's up to the OEM on if and when a SKU/device gets updated.

One can assume that an unlocked model would get updates faster than a carrier model, but that's just an (incorrect) assumption.