Is anyone else disappointed by the new Hangouts? It's basically just a cover up of the messaging app...two different conversations with people who have both hangouts and normal sms, can't forward messages or copy parts of message (only all of the text). I was hoping more for an iMessage competitor...not just a cover up of the messaging app. I'm happier that I can now have one messaging app but it is not nearly as good as I had hoped. Thoughts?
Hangouts disappointment
- Thread starter grn4frk
- Start date
Also no google voice integration. No voice calling. The wait continues.
The message from google is clear. If you want the latest google voice features, get an iphone.
The message from google is clear. If you want the latest google voice features, get an iphone.
The update to Hangouts is pretty much what I expected from it. It would be great if it could switch from Hangouts to SMS and vice versa on the fly on the back end, but that's not a big deal to me. I also really like the implementation of location sharing.
Posted via Android Central App
Posted via Android Central App
I like it, stock messaging (CM10.2) was a bit boring to me. The downside being that I don't actually have anyone to have a conversation with through hangouts because I live in a very iPhone dominate area, so its only an sms app to me.
yea it's a pretty MAJOR disappointment. It's basically an app that handles SMS as well as Hangouts. I was hoping, like you, for a seamless integration of SMS that would work on a Hangouts app on all devices. So I could message from Hangouts on my Mac or PC and it would go to another device. Now, I get that if the other person has Hangouts installed it would do that, and maybe this is why iMessage is such a mess. We'll see how it further develops.
this is how i want SMS to be on hangouts. So, I am happy about it.
I want control over what and how it sends the message.
iN8ter
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The problem isn't the control, the problem is how the messages are threaded.
Let's make a quick comparison.
In Windows Phone you can "Switch" between SMS and Facebook Chat in the Messaging Hub.
If you go into an area or building with no reception, you can switch to Facebook from SMS and send messages. The Messages appear in the same thread as the Facebook Chat Messages, so there is no break in the conversation flow.
In Hangouts, if you switch to from SMS to IM, then the IM goes to a separate conversation thread (AFAICT), and then when you switch back a whole portion of that conversation lives outside of the conversation. This makes it a compete and utter PITA to refer to earlier parts of the conversation because you can even forget which protocol was used during the earlier exchange.
This is not an issue in the Messaging hub. Everything remains in the same thread regardless of the protocol switch. Before Axing WLM, Microsoft supported three protocols there (SMS/MMS, Windows Live, and Facebook Chat) which could all be seamlessly switched between without breaking the thread up in this way.
It just looks a little sloppy, and it crowds the messaging list with redundant entries for the same contact - nevermind the conversation breaks within each thread as you switch from one to another. For example, if you don't want a Public Google Profile, you may send all your media via MMS to that contact instead of IM (Hangouts requires G+ for picture Sharing), but it would siphon all of that off to another conversation...
Since Google can match Phone Numbers to Google Accounts (they have been doing this for a while now with Hangouts, it's why they ask for verification), then there was no real roadblock for introducing a unified conversation thread for Hangouts and SMS.
Also, the lack of notification badges for Google Apps still makes the stock Messaging app a better choice. I prefer to see the counter for unread SMS/MMS messages on the icon. Hangouts doesn't do that.
iN8ter
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I just tried the Hangouts 2.0 app on my S3. Not sure why anyone would want to use this if they use MMS quite a bit.
You can only send Pictures and Take a Video, and I think Location (that is well Implemented, I give them that).
No Contacts, No Calendar, No Audio, No Memo. The Video sending option also only lets you take a video, not select one already on the device.
The minute you select SMS from the drop down, you get thrown into another, redundant, thread for that contact so the SMS and IM aren't threaded together (but we already knew that).
I don't foresee OEMs like HTC and Samsung shipping Hangouts as the only SMS/MMS client on their device anytime soon. Seems like another Talk -> Hangouts Situation where you get something prettier that is missing a ton of functionality compared to the component it replaced (like Talk VoIP not being in Hangouts - yet).
Performance was as good as ever and I didn't have any crash (I did clear data immediately after installing to avoid that). I really like the Status Indicators for which device you're using and whether you're on the phone or not... But I would never use this over Samsung's TouchWiz messaging client for SMS/MMS. It isn't even close to being a comparable messaging experience (once you move past the user interface). I would use it for Hangouts, though, with the SMS portion disabled. It's a decent upgrade on that end
If your SMS habits involve little MMS/Media Sharing, then I can see it being "good enough," however. At that point, the convenience pays off since you can more easily jump between the two chat types.
I wish they had implemented it like the Windows Phone Messaging Hub. That would have been killer :-(
You can only send Pictures and Take a Video, and I think Location (that is well Implemented, I give them that).
No Contacts, No Calendar, No Audio, No Memo. The Video sending option also only lets you take a video, not select one already on the device.
The minute you select SMS from the drop down, you get thrown into another, redundant, thread for that contact so the SMS and IM aren't threaded together (but we already knew that).
I don't foresee OEMs like HTC and Samsung shipping Hangouts as the only SMS/MMS client on their device anytime soon. Seems like another Talk -> Hangouts Situation where you get something prettier that is missing a ton of functionality compared to the component it replaced (like Talk VoIP not being in Hangouts - yet).
Performance was as good as ever and I didn't have any crash (I did clear data immediately after installing to avoid that). I really like the Status Indicators for which device you're using and whether you're on the phone or not... But I would never use this over Samsung's TouchWiz messaging client for SMS/MMS. It isn't even close to being a comparable messaging experience (once you move past the user interface). I would use it for Hangouts, though, with the SMS portion disabled. It's a decent upgrade on that end
If your SMS habits involve little MMS/Media Sharing, then I can see it being "good enough," however. At that point, the convenience pays off since you can more easily jump between the two chat types.
I wish they had implemented it like the Windows Phone Messaging Hub. That would have been killer :-(
I've gone back to Textra already for my texts. I love Hangouts but this new functionality is too much hassle, I don't want the threads split into two, it defeats the point.
I've never used Windows Phone so I'm honestly asking, wouldn't this situation end up with the person on the other end with the break in conversation flow?
I'm not all that psyched about the Hangouts update either, and I also wanted the Google Voice integration, including voice calling. But I don't think that Google's message is to get an iPhone if you want the latest Google Voice features. First of all, the Google Voice app already allows for tight call integration for Android phones - if you have it configured right, when you call, your callers see your Google Voice number. They couldn't do that over cellular minutes on iOS, so they did it over data. Which mostly brought parity between Android and iOS platforms, except in cases for those of us who have limited minutes and would like to use Hangout's voice calling features to avoid using our minutes. Although these days, most all plans come with unlimited minutes (granted not all - mine, for example; I have T-Mobile's $30 plan with 100 minutes and 5 GB of data). But for me, this is a minor inconvenience, since I can easily use the Chrome hangouts app to make and receive calls (as well as any forwarding numbers I have listed).
By the way, the iOS version does NOT have Google Voice texting either, and it can't even be used as the default text messaging app.
So iOS has voice calling, Android has SMS integration. Otherwise, the apps aren't far apart. I want Google to bring Voice calling and messaging into Hangouts for Android, but I'd rather they work on a polished product and release in a few months than hurry up and give us something half baked.
iN8ter
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SMS integration is worthless compared to Voice Calling because the iPhone already has an SMS app, and you cannot set a default SMS app on iOS. No iPhone user will use Hangouts for SMS when they have Messages that does iMessage and SMS/MMS transparently, and integrates with FaceTime - never mind the feature gap for MMS in Hangouts vs. the Messages app on those devices (even Android devices). Nexus users will have crippled MMS functionality unless they download a third party SMS app, for example, compared to HTC/Samsung/Sony's SMS/MMS apps on devices right now. I don't think they should have rolled this out on Nexus devices that way. It simply isn't good enough to replace the stock SMS client, yet.
Anyways, Google has had a habit lately of improving iOS applications (or just plain releasing apps) before the Android versions. The Gmail app on iOS got some nice improvements months before the Android app was updated, for example. Google Now was ported over to iOS and given to relatively old iOS versions while ICS users were stuck with the normal Google Search App. Google Maps when released was much better on iOS than on Android - whose app still looked like half a GB app for several months following it.
Not saying it's true, but it does seem like iOS is the best experience for consuming Google's service. Not only do you get a better managed platform, but you get 1st class Google apps to go with it. Google seems to have a better pace of development on iOS, and iTunes does not stage the roll-out of App updates. I think there were even articles posted on Tech Blogs pushing that statement, and I'm almost inclined to agree with them. Since Apple tends to support their phones better than any Android OEM, you also run into less instances where you need to hack or upgrade your phone to update a Google app (Google Search on ICS vs. JB, Chrome for Android back when it was released was 4.0+ when GB had huge market share, etc.).
I think it will be interesting to see what happens if Apple releases a 5"+ iPhone next year...
I think people are really drinking the cool-aid. Google doesn't care that people were crying for SMS integration. They care that they saw an opportunity to phase out one more AOSP component to push a proprietary solution and did so. I personally don't care about that as at this point I pretty much consider Android a proprietary OS anyways. They have been dropping AOSP stock apps in lieu of IP-infested superset apps for years now. Messages was just the latest victim, and they're willing to degrade the user experience and capabilities in the process to get that done.
An OS should not be designed to have its pieces swapped out, IMO. They should be trying to design the best stock experience possible in hopes that "customization" is not at the front of people's thoughts. Most iOS and WP8 (and even Android, since OEM phones are the majority) users don't care about that kind of customization, because the devices offer practically everything they need out of the box. The only user experience that falls short, is the stock android experience, which is why I have stayed away from Nexus phones thus far.
iN8ter
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Possibly. Facebook Messenger for Android supported SMS until the latest update, so that could be avoided on that platform. On iOS they'd probably want to keep it separate because those users are not going to use a 3rd party SMS client and lose iMessage access in that client...
That you cannot replace the default SMS app on iOS is an iOS deficiency, as far as I'm concerned. But to address your point, it's a subjective one. You can no more say "SMS integration is worthless" in iOS any more than anyone else can say "voice calling is worthless in Android" since the Google Voice Android app offers tight dialer integration anyway. But maybe neither of us should speak for other users as to what is and is not worthless.
This is a tunnel visioned way of seeing it. Yes, certain apps were released/updated for iOS before they were for Android, but the Google services experience has always been overall better in Android. Maps? For weeks after Apple went with its own mapping service (which turned out to be a disaster for them), iOS users did not have Google maps at all! For a good while, Google even taunted Apple by telling iOS users to just use the mobile browser version of the map. Google maps still cannot be directly launched from other apps in iOS, including Siri. The Google Maps app on iOS is stellar, but integration with other apps and other parts of iOS sucks. I realize that is due to Apple's closed nature and not Google's fault, but that's a distinction without a difference when it comes to the user experience.
Google Plus only just announced that in-the-background cloud sync for photos will come to iOS - currently the Google Plus app for iOS can only auto-backup when the app is running. I think Android users have had this cloud sync in-the-background functionality for photos since we've had the Google Plus app on Android. Chrome is far better on Android than iOS. Even search is much better integrated into the OS for Android than iOS. Android has always had better sharing tools than iOS. While Apple has to bake in sharing options app by app (remember when there was a big standing ovation when Apple announced now you can share photos directly on Facebook and we all laughed?), Android's sharing options have always included any installed app capable of sharing.
I think there is very little doubt that the overall Google experience is better on Android - and especially Nexus devices - than on iOS. Just because Google updates certain apps differently for iOS than for Android and some of us would like to have the iOS update as opposed to the Android one doesn't mean that Google's experience is better on iOS. Bloggers who are saying that, I'm afraid, are not examining the totality of the experience.
While Google is swapping out certain "core" apps of Android for proprietary versions, the important thing is that they are giving other developers and OEMs the ability to do exactly the same thing. While Kitkat comes with Hangouts as the default messaging app, it also comes with the ability to set your default messaging app to anything you want (or your OEM wants). Android's specialty is that non-Google, non-bundled apps have the same access to alter the user experience as Google itself does. You can't say the same thing about iOS. Whether or not people care about that, I don't know. Plenty of messaging apps have 10s of millions of downloads in the Play Store (and the App Store), so I am not sure it's entirely correct that people don't want alternate messaging apps or alternate apps to handle the same functions. Apple bundles its own maps with iOS, but that doesn't stop its users from downloading and using Google Maps in droves instead.
iN8ter
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1. That's not an iOS deficiency. The SMS/MMS app in iOS has always been better than practically anything on Android. How long did it take Android to get Group MMS support, while iOS and even Windows Phone has had this for years? The need to swap out the default SMS app on iOS is just not there for most people. You don't gain anything by doing that.
Contrarily, you lose a ton of functionality on Android by going from the (i.e.) Samsung SMS/MMS app to Google Hangouts. There is, literally, nothing to gain but a different user interface - and in some cases it will force you to use multiple applications to do what one could do before the switch. The benefits of having the threads in the Hangouts app is simply not worth using Hangouts in lieu of the Messaging app. The only way I'd use this in Hangouts is simply to be able to view and switch when I only have to send text (only) messages really quickly here and there. For heavy texters and MMSers, it's almost worthless.
This is not a deficiency on iOS. That's a policy. The reason why Apple (or Microsoft, for that matter - except with Camera apps now) do not allow swapping out the default apps is because they focus on providing a decent experience with the core apps on the platform. You're free to use an alternative, where possible, however...
Not everyone wants to, or even cares about swapping out apps. Some people get the phone they get based on what functionality is offered in the stock software so calling it a deficiency IS tunnel visioned and a misnomer.
2. There are complete apps like YouTube Camera that weren't even released for iOS. The Gmail and Maps apps got updated on iOS months before Android. Complete components like Google Now went to iOS while skipping even ICS devices. There are tons of examples.
3. Google+ only matters to people who want to be on Google+. Auto-Upload is not an Android feature, it's a Google+ feature in an app pre-loaded on Android devices. It's bloatware, basically. No different than Verizon pre-loading VZ Navigator on their devices... The fact that Google developed it doesn't change that. It isn't the same as SkyDrive auto-upload on Windows Phone, or Photo Streams on iOS, it's a feature tied to Google's own Facebook-clone. It's more analogous to the Photo Sync in Facebook which is equally useless to people who do not want to be on Facebook. Not comparable. I'm not sure I even mentioned Google+ features. I'm talking about core Google Services, not the ones dependent on their Social Network (which Hangouts is, so no iOS people I know will dare to use that app).
The overall core Google Experience, if you want the fastest app updates, and features at a faster pace that aren't tied to specific Android versions (that your phone may never receive) is better on iOS. There is literally NO doubt of that.
As for Google Search. Google now pulls a bunch of info from Wikipedia, while S Voice and Siri pulls a ton of information from Wolfram Alpha. That lets you know which one I tend to use...
4. Android was designed to be modular to allow OEMs to customize it otherwise they would get frustrated as most did with Windows Phone OEMs. 100 OEMs will not launch the same phones running the same stock software with only marginal hardware differences. The OS was designed that way. That is why Google has made it even easier to switch between Launchers and Messaging apps.
Right now, Google is taking a bit more control over the platform by superceding (and abandoning) AOSP components in favor of proprietary GApps.
Downloads do not mean users. Path, for example, has WAY more downloads on just Google Play than the amount of active users it has across all platforms it supports.
3rd party Launchers and Messaging apps (I've tried quite a few) are usually overly complicated, sometimes quite ugly, and overloaded with settings. They serve no purpose but to confuse people who are not quite tech literate - some of them even require plug-ins to accomplish things the stock apps can do with no such intermediary steps... This is why I stopped recommending them to people and it's also why I stopped purchasing devices based on theoretical functionality from 3rd party devices. I purchase based on what the device can do, as I hate installing redundant apps on my phone, anyways. This is why I never have (and probably never will) buy a Nexus. The functionality is always way behind a Sense or TouchWiz device as Google offers only the Least-Common Denominator feature-wise in their stock build (and I personally think it looks like poo, but that's is certainly personal).
No, I don't use an iOS device (4" is way too small for me), but it will be interesting to see what happens if Apple launches a 5" iPhone.
This isn't just a Google issue, either. Microsoft has similar support disparity between the updates to core components on their own smartphone OS vs what they launch for iOS (and to a lesser extent, Android) as well...
Contrarily, you lose a ton of functionality on Android by going from the (i.e.) Samsung SMS/MMS app to Google Hangouts. There is, literally, nothing to gain but a different user interface - and in some cases it will force you to use multiple applications to do what one could do before the switch. The benefits of having the threads in the Hangouts app is simply not worth using Hangouts in lieu of the Messaging app. The only way I'd use this in Hangouts is simply to be able to view and switch when I only have to send text (only) messages really quickly here and there. For heavy texters and MMSers, it's almost worthless.
This is not a deficiency on iOS. That's a policy. The reason why Apple (or Microsoft, for that matter - except with Camera apps now) do not allow swapping out the default apps is because they focus on providing a decent experience with the core apps on the platform. You're free to use an alternative, where possible, however...
Not everyone wants to, or even cares about swapping out apps. Some people get the phone they get based on what functionality is offered in the stock software so calling it a deficiency IS tunnel visioned and a misnomer.
2. There are complete apps like YouTube Camera that weren't even released for iOS. The Gmail and Maps apps got updated on iOS months before Android. Complete components like Google Now went to iOS while skipping even ICS devices. There are tons of examples.
3. Google+ only matters to people who want to be on Google+. Auto-Upload is not an Android feature, it's a Google+ feature in an app pre-loaded on Android devices. It's bloatware, basically. No different than Verizon pre-loading VZ Navigator on their devices... The fact that Google developed it doesn't change that. It isn't the same as SkyDrive auto-upload on Windows Phone, or Photo Streams on iOS, it's a feature tied to Google's own Facebook-clone. It's more analogous to the Photo Sync in Facebook which is equally useless to people who do not want to be on Facebook. Not comparable. I'm not sure I even mentioned Google+ features. I'm talking about core Google Services, not the ones dependent on their Social Network (which Hangouts is, so no iOS people I know will dare to use that app).
The overall core Google Experience, if you want the fastest app updates, and features at a faster pace that aren't tied to specific Android versions (that your phone may never receive) is better on iOS. There is literally NO doubt of that.
As for Google Search. Google now pulls a bunch of info from Wikipedia, while S Voice and Siri pulls a ton of information from Wolfram Alpha. That lets you know which one I tend to use...
4. Android was designed to be modular to allow OEMs to customize it otherwise they would get frustrated as most did with Windows Phone OEMs. 100 OEMs will not launch the same phones running the same stock software with only marginal hardware differences. The OS was designed that way. That is why Google has made it even easier to switch between Launchers and Messaging apps.
Right now, Google is taking a bit more control over the platform by superceding (and abandoning) AOSP components in favor of proprietary GApps.
Downloads do not mean users. Path, for example, has WAY more downloads on just Google Play than the amount of active users it has across all platforms it supports.
3rd party Launchers and Messaging apps (I've tried quite a few) are usually overly complicated, sometimes quite ugly, and overloaded with settings. They serve no purpose but to confuse people who are not quite tech literate - some of them even require plug-ins to accomplish things the stock apps can do with no such intermediary steps... This is why I stopped recommending them to people and it's also why I stopped purchasing devices based on theoretical functionality from 3rd party devices. I purchase based on what the device can do, as I hate installing redundant apps on my phone, anyways. This is why I never have (and probably never will) buy a Nexus. The functionality is always way behind a Sense or TouchWiz device as Google offers only the Least-Common Denominator feature-wise in their stock build (and I personally think it looks like poo, but that's is certainly personal).
No, I don't use an iOS device (4" is way too small for me), but it will be interesting to see what happens if Apple launches a 5" iPhone.
This isn't just a Google issue, either. Microsoft has similar support disparity between the updates to core components on their own smartphone OS vs what they launch for iOS (and to a lesser extent, Android) as well...
Chex313
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- Oct 7, 2011
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I use a free app(Textplus) for texting and have texting turned off on all 3 lines. Can hangouts be used if you don't have texting? It wants to send a confirmation sms to my #...but I'm not going to receive it, unless I give them the free app # . Which I'm trying to get rid of by going to Hangouts...sort of a "Catch-22" (This also prevents me from doing the 2 tier authentication)
I have been staying away from G+ as long as possible. Now it seems I am forced to at least dip my toe in. Just to get back latitude or what ever it is now.Would be nice.
I have been staying away from G+ as long as possible. Now it seems I am forced to at least dip my toe in. Just to get back latitude or what ever it is now.Would be nice.
The deficiency is not in the quality of the default app. The deficiency is in the policy, as you put it, of not letting users choose a 3rd party app to be the default app to handle something.
That's a little funny coming from someone who complains about lack of Google Voice integration, since GV SMS never had good support for MMS. Regardless, this is why you have the freedom, on Android, to choose a 3rd party app as default.
Sure, but by the same token, not everyone wants to, or even cares about the extra MMS functions like audio. What's good for the goose... You are representing the subset who want the functionality but dismissing my subset of those who are happy to get a 3rd party app. That doesn't work.
This is partly my point, so thanks.
And Google Voice calling only matters to people who use Google voice. Hangouts calling only matters to people who make calls on Hangouts. What's your point?Just because you don't want a feature or app doesn't make it less relevant.
I said it was only available on Android, not that it's a feature of Android. The whole point of this discussion is the respective Google services experiences on the 2 platforms.
You didn't. I did.
Google services are Google services. What's core to you may or may not be core to someone else. My whole point is that you're picking and choosing services to argue your point. Maps is no more "core" than social. In fact, more people probably use a social network on a daily basis than do maps.
No, that's YOUR experience. And if the stuff you use most is better on iOS, then by all means, get an iPhone. We're consumers first and platform enthusiasts second. Make the best decision for you as a consumer.
Excellent.
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