Nexus 5 is better than the iPhone.

[Aquila]

Oh I'm well aware of what I was getting into. Fortunately, it seems like the people who run this site agree with me:

The best Android phone you can buy, as of November 2013 The best Android phone you can buy, as of November 2013 | Android Central

Even still, it's not even about what one is better. I'm just correcting some of the false statements that are being made.

Posted via Android Central App

Your point that taking one data point, out of context, and with blinders on to the possibility of anomaly, is not the same thing as evidence... of anything... is correct. One app opening slower (regardless of by how long a duration), once, in one video... proves literally nothing and should NEVER be extrapolated to indicate that one device is faster or slower than the other, EVEN if the race is only opening that one app. That's like flipping a coin, once, observing it land tails and assuming that every coin tossed for the rest of eternity will from thence land tails.

In order to prove the N5 opens Google Now faster or slower than the Moto X, we'd have to run it many times, on many devices and then interpret the DATA. And then we'd only know about one single app, and still be completely unable to know WHY without investigation and we would have nothing to suggest that results would be similar with any other app(s) unless the WHY indicated that it would be logical to assume it so.

 

[yfan]

Your point that taking one data point, out of context, and with blinders on to the possibility of anomaly, is not the same thing as evidence... of anything... is correct. One app opening slower (regardless of by how long a duration), once, in one video... proves literally nothing and should NEVER be extrapolated to indicate that one device is faster or slower than the other, EVEN if the race is only opening that one app. That's like flipping a coin, once, observing it land tails and assuming that every coin tossed for the rest of eternity will from thence land tails.

In order to prove the N5 opens Google Now faster or slower than the Moto X, we'd have to run it many times, on many devices and then interpret the DATA. And then we'd only know about one single app, and still be completely unable to know WHY without investigation and we would have nothing to suggest that results would be similar with any other app(s) unless the WHY indicated that it would be logical to assume it so.

Only problem is, the AC editor that did the review had the chance to do exactly that, and decided not to.

Also, one incident CAN be evidence... of a fact/postulation established by testing. The video in question isn't important because it shows one instance of something, it's important because it confirms the results of the benchmark tests. One apple falling to earth IS evidence of gravity - because gravity is an established and accepted scientific fact. Nobody here is extrapolating the video to a general postulation. It's the other way around. We are saying the video is just another piece of evidence of what is already established by benchmark tests.

 

[Aquila]

Only problem is, the AC editor that did the review had the chance to do exactly that, and decided not to.

Also, one incident CAN be evidence... of a fact/postulation established by testing. The video in question isn't important because it shows one instance of something, it's important because it confirms the results of the benchmark tests. One apple falling to earth IS evidence of gravity - because gravity is an established and accepted scientific fact. Nobody here is extrapolating the video to a general postulation. It's the other way around. We are saying the video is just another piece of evidence of what is already established by benchmark tests.

And THAT is also a good argument. It can't be said that one is faster than the other based on just the video, but the video can be used as evidence that it could be, and in conjunction with other evidence, it could be convincing. The gap between being suggestive and being proof in and of itself of a larger context in general performance is where a lot of ink has been spent recently. A rabbit, while a product of evolution, is not a proof case for evolution if you never look at any other animal other than one single animal. However, a rabbit studied among other rabbits and other species, etc can easily be found to display evidence.

The thought process behind the members posting may be exactly what you indicated, and I have no reason to believe that it is not. However, the reader of the posts making the argument is clearly understanding a very different argument, and so I feel the clarification is necessary. I don't think either "side" is necessarily understanding the situation incorrectly as individual posters, but we're having a very difficult time communicating the nature of the argument to each other.

 

[Rule9]

Oh I'm well aware of what I was getting into. Fortunately, it seems like the people who run this site agree with me:

The best Android phone you can buy, as of November 2013 The best Android phone you can buy, as of November 2013 | Android Central

Even still, it's not even about what one is better. I'm just correcting some of the false statements that are being made.

Posted via Android Central App

Fair enough. Personally I'd sit this one out. Trying to tell the residents of a device's own forum they're making false statements even if they are - and again, I'm not saying that or taking sides - won't get any agreement whatsoever from the regulars of that forum. One of the Moto-X's biggest proponents you'll notice is consipcuously absent in this thread. He'll know who he is when I say he's someone I've disagreed with in the past . But I will admit he will (and has) handily spank anyone who tries making incorrect statements about the X in the X forums.

And one last cautionary tale for you just for kicks. Once upon a time I had an old established account on a smartphone OS community. On that account were several friendships, many of whom were staff members whom I had such a good rapport with that they would even PM me on the sly to let me know if I was being railroaded by other staff. Or if a forum member was being a troll, but a clever enough troll to play fast and loose games with the forum rules to avoid infractions by technicalities, I was able to get them eventually banned by helping those mods out. But things went south after I made the mistake once of roaming over to the forum of a non-android OS to try to "enlighten" some of their more vocal members that some of the ridiculous statements they were making about a competing platform (also not android, but which I no longer use now) were wrong. My efforts resulted in me being blatantly insulted by non other than the lead administrator of that forum and his staff (A practice which I see continuing today on that forum when I anonymously peek in there from time to time) and he also used a perma ban that resulted in total account loss. I can create more phony locations and IP addresses than he and his staff have the know-how to overcome but it's not worth it. I just avoid participating there now.

 

[Adranalyne]

And THAT is also a good argument. It can't be said that one is faster than the other based on just the video, but the video can be used as evidence that it could be, and in conjunction with other evidence, it could be convincing. The gap between being suggestive and being proof in and of itself of a larger context in general performance is where a lot of ink has been spent recently. A rabbit, while a product of evolution, is not a proof case for evolution if you never look at any other animal other than one single animal. However, a rabbit studied among other rabbits and other species, etc can easily be found to display evidence.

The thought process behind the members posting may be exactly what you indicated, and I have no reason to believe that it is not. However, the reader of the posts making the argument is clearly understanding a very different argument, and so I feel the clarification is necessary. I don't think either "side" is necessarily understanding the situation incorrectly as individual posters, but we're having a very difficult time communicating the nature of the argument to each other.

I'm not sure how this has gotten lost in the shuffle. I, at no point, disputed the Nexus 5 was faster as it pertains to the benchmark tests. It has the superior CPU and that isn't up for debate. However, this entire argument stems off of real-world, day to day performance. In that regard, the benchmarks don't really play a role as they often account for power that just isn't capable of being used by the OS.

In day to day use, there is -not- a significant speed difference between the Moto X and the Nexus 5. Their claim has always been to use that one instance in Jerry's video to help solidify what the benchmarks give them. It's never been about the facts. If you've ever used both phones side by side or spent any significant time with the Moto X, these aren't things you'd argue. This is purely someone(s) unwilling to admit that an advantage they believe their device has isn't really an advantage at all---as evidenced by the comments in the Moto X vs Nexus 5 article and various other ridiculous statements made about the Nexus 5 in other threads.

And because I don't feel like retorting separately; the Moto X is mine, not my employers.

Posted via Android Central App

 

[Shilohcane]

It appears that you two are kind of talking about different things.

What Adranalyne is saying, however, is that even though the Nexus 5 is faster on paper, when you are using either phone as you would every day, there is a negligible difference between the two when it comes to speed.

No Adranalyne is saying the Snapdragon S4 Pro is fast enough for him and him only. I could make that same argument with my LG Motion that I paid $150 with it's Snapdragon 400 that was fast enough. The Snapdragon S4 Pro 1.7 GHz dual core is TOO SLOW for me since I can buy a much faster CPU for about $175 dollars less than the Moto X. Some people care about cameras and I don't care about cameras. I care about CPU speed. I will take a quad core over a dual core any days as long as the four cores are faster than the two cores combined since I have helped developed OS used for military flight simulators. I have 40 years experiences in the computer industry and I like fast a fast multi-CPU over a camera that I may take 5 pictures a year. I won't upgrade my 2012 Nexus 7 to the new 2013 version since it uses that same slower Snapdragon S4 Pro compared to Amazon Kindle Fire HDX tablets as the first tablets that is powered by the 2.2 GHz quad-core Snapdragon 800 processor at about the same price. I won't buy a Amazon product since it is the same walled garden prison that those apple people use that I hate. I'm happy for Adranalyne that loves his Moto X. But hell will freeze over before I pay more for a slower CPU processor since this phone has to last me 4 years.

 

[anon5664829]

No Adranalyne is saying the Snapdragon S4 Pro is fast enough for him and him only. The Snapdragon S4 Pro 1.7 GHz dual core is TOO SLOW for me since I can buy a much faster CPU for about $175 dollars less than the Moto X. Some people care about cameras and I don't care about cameras. I care about CPU speed. I will take a quad core over a dual core any days as long as the four cores are faster than the two cores combined since I have helped developed OS used for military flight simulators. I have 40 years experiences in the computer industry and I like fast a fast multi-CPU over a camera that I may take 5 pictures a year. I won't upgrade my 2012 Nexus 7 since it uses that same slower Snapdragon S4 Pro compared to Amazon Kindle Fire HDX tablets as the first tablets that is powered by the 2.2 GHz quad-core Snapdragon 800 processor just like the Nexus 5 at the same price. I won't buy a Amazon product since it is the same walled garden that those apple people that I hate use. I'm happy for Adranalyne that loves his Moto X. But hell will freeze over before I pay more for a slower CPU processor since this phone has to last me 4 years.

The 2013 Nexus 7 uses a under clocked S600 not a S4 Pro.
But really? The obsession you have with the CPU is rather confusing. If the X is super super smooth anyway.
Posted via Android Central App

 

[Shilohcane]

The 2013 Nexus 7 uses a under clocked S600 not a S4 Pro.
But really? The obsession you have with the CPU is rather confusing. If the X is super super smooth anyway.
Posted via Android Central App

This reminds me of when you told me a 64 bit Apple computer is faster than a 32 bit computer due only to it width but then again you are only 15 years old. What is your college degree in since my degree says MS in Computer Science. Check the facts on Google Play the Nexus 7 is using a Quad-core Qualcomm Snapdragon™ S4 Pro, 1.5GHz.

I love the fact that someone as young as you loves technology but the educations never stops since technology never stops. People like you needs to be in the next generation of technology. Just stop thinking you know everything since no one will ever know everything about technology.

 

[anon5664829]

This reminds me of when you told me a 64 bit Apple computer is faster than a 32 bit computer due only to it width but then again you are only 15 years old. What is your college degree in since my degree says MS in Computer Science. Check the facts on Google Play the Nexus 7 is using a Quad-core Qualcomm Snapdragon? S4 Pro, 1.5GHz.

I love the fact that someone as young as you loves technology but the educations never stops since technology never stops. People like you needs to be in the next generation of technology. Just stop thinking you know everything since no one will ever know everything about technology.

When do I claim to know everything ,Aanand tech themselves mentioned that the Nexus 7 uses an under clocked S600.

" This reminds me of when you told me a 64 bit Apple computer is faster than a 32 bit computer due only to it width" where the hell did I say that? No seriously, get that post out cause I have never said that. Furthermore MY age holds no relevance since I know more about tech then my dad. According to your logic my dad should know far far more then me about tech right? :rolls eyes:

Thank you for the (accidental?) compliment, but I never stop reading about tech I never once thought that tech has stopped because with stuff like coprocessors and 64bit ARM CPU's this is just the beginning

Sorry that we got off on the wrong foot.

Posted via Android Central App

 

[Aquila]

The Nexus 7 uses 4 Krait 300 cores and an Adreno 320. That literally is an S600 except for the clock speed. The S4 Pro from last year doesn't have Krait 300s nor an Adreno 320.

XT1060. Through spacetime.

 

[LegalAmerican]

That will not tell you how the device will perform under load. 6 months or a year from now, what feels smooth and fast right now will probably be a lot less so then. So the fact that a phone can run all the current stuff well is not necessarily an indication that it is a better buy. If you can get better performance 6 months or a year from now for the same price, why would you not want that?

Benchmarks will tell you the real story because they push the device to it's limits.

Samsung already blew the cover on benchmarks for me. When a manufacturer can program a device to look incredible on benchmarks even if it's not as great as it appears, that tells me that the chances are sky high that everyone does that. Which undermines benchmarks almost entirely. Now I don't think anyone on here is foolish enough to "not want" better performance for their money. You're kind of twisting the conversation into an illogical direction there. I see what you're saying, but I don't believe that benchmarks are always a 100% foolproof indication of how my device will function in 6 months. There's always things that a user could do to improve or hinder performance no matter what the benchmark was at the factory setting. My S3 had a decent benchmark score, and now a year later it lags like mad. I've changed a few things (short of rooting) to help it, and it's made a tremendous difference. Luckily for Android users, we don't have to always rely on factory devices to last or perform to our expectations.

 

[mrsmumbles]

Samsung already blew the cover on benchmarks for me. When a manufacturer can program a device to look incredible on benchmarks even if it's not as great as it appears, that tells me that the chances are sky high that everyone does that. Which undermines benchmarks almost entirely. Now I don't think anyone on here is foolish enough to "not want" better performance for their money. You're kind of twisting the conversation into an illogical direction there. I see what you're saying, but I don't believe that benchmarks are always a 100% foolproof indication of how my device will function in 6 months. There's always things that a user could do to improve or hinder performance no matter what the benchmark was at the factory setting. My S3 had a decent benchmark score, and now a year later it lags like mad. I've changed a few things (short of rooting) to help it, and it's made a tremendous difference. Luckily for Android users, we don't have to always rely on factory devices to last or perform to our expectations.

Yes, and I think in your reply you've hit upon something which actually improves the benchmarks/performance of the Nexus 5 over a Galaxy or other device, there's no lagware or bloatware to degrade factory benchmark quality performance. That's only one more reason the Nexus 5 is a wonderful phone.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Adranalyne]

Samsung already blew the cover on benchmarks for me. When a manufacturer can program a device to look incredible on benchmarks even if it's not as great as it appears, that tells me that the chances are sky high that everyone does that. Which undermines benchmarks almost entirely. Now I don't think anyone on here is foolish enough to "not want" better performance for their money. You're kind of twisting the conversation into an illogical direction there. I see what you're saying, but I don't believe that benchmarks are always a 100% foolproof indication of how my device will function in 6 months. There's always things that a user could do to improve or hinder performance no matter what the benchmark was at the factory setting. My S3 had a decent benchmark score, and now a year later it lags like mad. I've changed a few things (short of rooting) to help it, and it's made a tremendous difference. Luckily for Android users, we don't have to always rely on factory devices to last or perform to our expectations.

Not to mention that with 4.4, their goal is to not require a world-class CPU or 2-3GB of RAM to run Android smoothly. The Moto G is a perfect example of that. I haven't gotten to play with one, but I'd assume it runs Jelly Bean as smoothly as most high end phones do based on opinions I've read of people who would know such things.

 

[Rule9]

I just need a moment to thank the good Lord that when I receive my Nexus 5, I will not allow myself to enjoy it because your posts have kept my feet on the ground. December 3rd can take it's time because clearly, the Nexus 5 is no great thing. Thank you. THANK YOU!

Great post! Thanks so much for this!!!!!!!!

/double thumbs up

 

[mrsmumbles]

Not to mention that with 4.4, their goal is to not require a world-class CPU or 2-3GB of RAM to run Android smoothly. The Moto G is a perfect example of that. I haven't gotten to play with one, but I'd assume it runs Jelly Bean as smoothly as most high end phones do based on opinions I've read of people who would know such things.

How do you know what their goal is? If it is, they sure have a funny way of not denying a world class CPU and 2gbs of RAM to the Nexus 5.

I'm not sure if the Motog is lag free after people put stuff on it. The glowing review I read so far was focused not so much on it being a phenomenal device but a good device for a very budget price. For $100 more someone can get a Nexus 5 which is a premium phone at a budget price.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk 2

 

[LegalAmerican]

I've kind of disagreed with Andranalyne and JeffDenver on here so I want to clarify my position so it's not misinterpreted......

I just got the shipping info on my Nexus 5 this morning. I am SO excited to get it. I think for me it's the best phone on the market (because I wont pay 600 for a phone and i'm on Straight Talk). Even if I was on a carrier, i'd strongly consider the Nexus 5. I'd probably get the Moto X because of the touchless control, but if the Nexus 5 had that I would feel that nothing could beat it (except maybe the Note 3).

I don't think Benchmarks are as crucial as some feel they are. But that's my opinion. However I also don't think that it makes much sense to sit and argue on a Nexus 5 forum about how the Moto X might be better (opinion). Once that point has been made and everyone knows your opinion, we could just leave it at that and move on to more interesting topics. I just wish my Nexus 5 would get here TODAY instead of early next week due to the holiday. A holiday at the inlaws could have been much more entertaining with a new N5.

 

[JeffDenver]

Samsung already blew the cover on benchmarks for me.

Yeah I hear you, and I agree. I don't think that is likely to happen again now that benchmark apps are blacklisting devices they suspect of cheating. And it is not as if there is only one benchmark.

Now I don't think anyone on here is foolish enough to "not want" better performance for their money.

I think that is what they are saying if they are saying something is "good enough" when there is a better option available.

You can say "well the Moto X's software makes me want it despite having a slower CPU", and thats fine. But all else being equal, faster is better for the same money.

I see what you're saying, but I don't believe that benchmarks are always a 100% foolproof indication of how my device will function in 6 months.

They are a better indication than any other metric for that. They do not have to be 100% to have value.

There's always things that a user could do to improve or hinder performance no matter what the benchmark was at the factory setting. My S3 had a decent benchmark score, and now a year later it lags like mad.

My Boyfriend's S3 still runs awesome. At the time he bought it, it was better than anything else at the time. The benchmarks were accurate for him.

 

[yfan]

The Nexus 7 uses 4 Krait 300 cores and an Adreno 320. That literally is an S600 except for the clock speed. The S4 Pro from last year doesn't have Krait 300s nor an Adreno 320.

XT1060. Through spacetime.

Then how come Google's own support page lists the 2013 Nexus 7 as having a Snapdragon S4 Pro CPU and an Adreno 320 GPU?

https://support.google.com/nexus/answer/3247662?hl=en

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

 

[Adranalyne]

How do you know what their goal is? If it is, they sure have a funny way of not denying a world class CPU and 2gbs of RAM to the Nexus 5.

I'm not sure if the Motog is lag free after people put stuff on it. The glowing review I read so far was focused not so much on it being a phenomenal device but a good device for a very budget price. For $100 more someone can get a Nexus 5 which is a premium phone at a budget price.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk 2

Because 4.4 only requires 512MB to run? Because they want to be able to bring KitKat to a broader range of devices, meaning low to mid range? I figured that was public knowledge. Maybe I'm playing a little too much "inside baseball" for you guys.

 

[JeffDenver]

I agree. You are way too smart. That must the problem.