Pattern in G4 motherboard failures?

[Tsukiyomi]

That's really interesting, thanks for the reply. What's put us off the move to T-Mobile so far is purely the fact that we're grandfathered into the Sprint 1500 plan (Unlimited everything on 2 lines). But I'm thinking of contacting T-Mobile this week to see what they could offer. The other problem is that we had to sign a new 2 year agreement in June in order to get the G4's. I'm currently on to Sprint via Chat right now to see if they'll do a swap on my wife's since it was a known issue (just to recap, I've been told twice that they won't. Hopefully third time's a charm!). I'm also doing it pre-emptively to see if I can get mine changed for a new model before anything major happens.

EDIT: Nope, that call got me nowhere. I was told that LG are covering this directly under their warranty and that I've been told this during my previous correspondence. Even pointing out that we had Device Protection while the recall was going on didn't help - the stock answer now seems to be that they can't do anything. Also, I've just reinstated Device Protection on my phone just in case and was still told I can't do an exchange even though my phone's one of the recalled s/n's. I have to wait until it dies then file a claim.

I'm really just about sick of Sprint right now and unhappy with my first LG experience. Shame - it's a nice size, great screen & excellent camera. I told them I'm going to call T-Mobile this week to see what they can do for me, Sprint told me they'd have someone call me back within the hour to discuss it.

EDIT 2: Five hours later and I've heard nothing so far.

 

[Im Broken]

Man that sucks. At&t hooked me up in a few days through the mail. And I got a brand new G4 not "like new". Sorry about your Sprint woes. I'll say it again. Someone is going to class action LG for lost $$$ due to extended loss of service trading in these phones.

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[anon(782252)]

That's really interesting, thanks for the reply. What's put us off the move to T-Mobile so far is purely the fact that we're grandfathered into the Sprint 1500 plan (Unlimited everything on 2 lines). But I'm thinking of contacting T-Mobile this week to see what they could offer. The other problem is that we had to sign a new 2 year agreement in June in order to get the G4's. I'm currently on to Sprint via Chat right now to see if they'll do a swap on my wife's since it was a known issue (just to recap, I've been told twice that they won't. Hopefully third time's a charm!). I'm also doing it pre-emptively to see if I can get mine changed for a new model before anything major happens.

EDIT: Nope, that call got me nowhere. I was told that LG are covering this directly under their warranty and that I've been told this during my previous correspondence. Even pointing out that we had Device Protection while the recall was going on didn't help - the stock answer now seems to be that they can't do anything. Also, I've just reinstated Device Protection on my phone just in case and was still told I can't do an exchange even though my phone's one of the recalled s/n's. I have to wait until it dies then file a claim.

I'm really just about sick of Sprint right now and unhappy with my first LG experience. Shame - it's a nice size, great screen & excellent camera. I told them I'm going to call T-Mobile this week to see what they can do for me, Sprint told me they'd have someone call me back within the hour to discuss it.

EDIT 2: Five hours later and I've heard nothing so far.

Yep, its amazing how these companies are more interested in acquiring new customers than they are at keeping their current ones. When I told Sprint that I could get more data on T-Mobile for $5/month less, they offered me a $120 one time credit ($5 x 24 months). I said I don't care about the $5/month, how about you just match the data. They said no. I said you are willing to lose a 5 line, 18 year customer over some data? They said nothing more they could offer. I said bye. T-Mobile is paying over $2,000 to acquire me as a customer with faster LTE, giving me more data and saving me $5/month.

You should just keep calling Sprint and keep asking for a supervisor. I once called them 7 days in a row. I had 3 of the same phones on my account and each one had a different problem. Store wouldn't help. Sprint finally told me there wasn't a higher supervisor I could talk to. I ended up getting all 3 phones replaced and a credit for a month of service.

 

[Almighty1]

I can see why LG would throw a lot more CS resources at buyers of a $6,000.00 TV than a $400 smartphone .

Yeah but still, if LG wasn't owned partially by the Korean Government, they be out of business.... I mean the shipping and labor of the panels is not cheap so it probably still cost them a lot to try to fix the tv.

 

[Almighty1]

LOL... my Panasonic Plasma died suddenly of the 8 blinks of death 29 days after the warranty expired. Lots of posts on forums about the issue and how to repair it but panasonic would not repair it. (Authorized service center quoted $350 to $450 for the repair) Best Buy also refused to take it back but in the end after several consumer complaints gave me back 50% of the cost towards a new TV.

My LG washer also died suddenly just a few months out of warranty. The motor has a 10 year warranty but the part that broke was a "sensor on the motor assembly" so even thought the tech replaced the entire motor assembly, it still pretty much cost me a whole new washer to have it repaired. Two months later my LG fridge.... yes, just out of warranty too... died. Again, a well known and documented issue, but LG balked on it too and sent out the same repair company that fixed my washer. The tech shook his head and worked it out so the fridge was repaired under warranty. After complaining to LG and the BBB, LG finally gave us credit for part of the work that was done on the washer... but not all. (Asian) Consumer electronics quality control SUCKS. I guess everything is "disposable" now...


David

Are you talking about the manufacturers warranty? If so, hopefully you bought with a credit card as you would have had a 1 year extended warranty where the credit card company will write you a check for the amount charged.

Best credit cards to extend your warranty coverage—for free

Since you are more familiar with this, is there a big difference in performance and reliability between Samsung and LG appliances?

 

[Almighty1]

For those on Sprint, just email the CEO at marcelo.claure@sprint.com and marcelo.claure.@sprint.com and basically describe the problem, threaten to take your business elsewhere and also say you will tell others not to use sprint but the competition instead. You will have much better luck with Executive Escalation Representatives than you will with Customer Service or supervisors.

 

[Aflaaaak]

Yeah but still, if LG wasn't owned partially by the Korean Government, they be out of business.... I mean the shipping and labor of the panels is not cheap so it probably still cost them a lot to try to fix the tv.

The high value customers seem to get better treatment everywhere, if you know what I mean.

 

[TNCattleDog]

nope, debit card for the TV, financed WD/Fridge through Lowes Credit and paid off in 2 months.. Completely forgot about the extended warranty from some credit cards. Thanks for pointing that out.

David

 

[Tsukiyomi]

Well my update is that I've now been to 3 different Sprint stores, made 5 calls to both CS and Tech Support and 3 online Chats. Every single one told me I'm plain out of luck since my (well, my wife's) phone died and we didn't have Device Protection. And despite Sprint openly admitting to me that this is a known issue on the early G4's and admitting to me that their stocks were recalled, my wife's phone isn't because we're "only leasing" from them and this is LG's problem. I've had to mail hers off to LG today despite being told it's currently taking at least 3 weeks because there's a shortage of motherboards.

I also asked whether my currently working G4 (bought same day, same time as my wife's) could be traded for one of the new batch and was told no. I've got to wait for it to fail then go back to Sprint since I took out Device Protection after the wife's phone died. So they recalled their stock, but any of the early G4's already sold/leased and have the Protection plan have to wait to die before anything can be done.

 

[Dale Joseph]

I have the same issue, I have contacted LG 5 weeks ago about the issue, and was told to send it to a company for them to repair it, but LG are out of stock of motherboards and there is an indefinite delay on them, so they are now sending me a Brand New replacement, but it's taken almost 6 weeks for them to agree to this...

 

[Dale Joseph]

I have the same issue, I have contacted LG 5 weeks ago about the issue, and was told to send it to a company for them to repair it, but LG are out of stock of motherboards and there is an indefinite delay on them, so they are now sending me a Brand New replacement, but it's taken almost 6 weeks for them to agree to this...

 

[D13H4RD2L1V3]

My 505 failed by the end of January. Got a 512 soon afterwards.

Heard a 509 and 511 failed recently. Yeah, I'm pretty weary now.

 

[Carl_L]

My G4 has a serial number starting with 506, purchased in July. I'm hoping I don't have the dreaded motherboard issue, but after living through a similar situation with my then new, iPad Air 2, I'm worried, but trying to maintain my perspective.........................................etc.

Love your post - well written & asking a very important question that could help us all - I salute you!

Shame that, fairly predictably, answers quickly veered off topic.

I share your curiosity - how were forum members that had this problem using their phones? Light/moderate usage? Heavy (video, gaming) usage? Was your phone always running hot, or did it start running hot just before failure?

There seems to be a consensus that heat 'caused' the failures. I know little about electronics but wonder if a bad joint (I say 'bad' because life's too short to argue the toss between dry & fractured joints) strained the system, which led to overheating, which stressed the bad joint further, & repeat, until the whole thing spiraled into failure.

My (unqualified) guess is that some (many?) motherboards left the factory with bad joints. I'd love to know if the fact that I only give my phone light use makes my phone immune to this failure, or whether it's a complete lottery.

 

[Mooncatt]

I remember the Nvidia 8800M graphics cards had similar issues in laptops. In their case, the solder they used wasn't rated for a high enough temperature and resulted in similar issues. The G4 is known to be a "hot" phone. Even normal web browsing can cause it to feel warm to the touch. If it's a weak solder point (or similar issue), then it wouldn't take much heat to make it eventually fail. Sure, a light user may not cause it to cycle as hot, but it will cycle to a lesser extent and stress the weak point. The ironic twist of fate is that by babying the phone in effort to not cause a problem could simply delay the failure until after the warranty has expired and then they'd have no recourse other than to pay for repairs or move to a different phone.

This, of course, just being my somewhat educated guess from personal experience with the aforementioned graphics card. $3000 gaming laptop rendered an expensive paperweight because it didn't happen until after the warranty expired. I may have pushed for recourse if I knew the issue immediately, but it wasn't until years later that I found out the root of the problem.

 

[D13H4RD2L1V3]

I remember the Nvidia 8800M graphics cards had similar issues in laptops. In their case, the solder they used wasn't rated for a high enough temperature and resulted in similar issues. The G4 is known to be a "hot" phone. Even normal web browsing can cause it to feel warm to the touch. If it's a weak solder point (or similar issue), then it wouldn't take much heat to make it eventually fail. Sure, a light user may not cause it to cycle as hot, but it will cycle to a lesser extent and stress the weak point. The ironic twist of fate is that by babying the phone in effort to not cause a problem could simply delay the failure until after the warranty has expired and then they'd have no recourse other than to pay for repairs or move to a different phone.

This, of course, just being my somewhat educated guess from personal experience with the aforementioned graphics card. $3000 gaming laptop rendered an expensive paperweight because it didn't happen until after the warranty expired. I may have pushed for recourse if I knew the issue immediately, but it wasn't until years later that I found out the root of the problem.

That's actually a pretty good theory, especially when the freezer trick allowed the phone to power-on continuously long-enough for a backup as long as it is kept in the freezer.

In essence, it's kinda like the infamous Xbox 360 Red-Ring of Death failures, which is usually caused by excessive heat disconnecting the solder joints between the CPU and GPU, almost like the G4's case.

Note that even my replacement G4 is a bit of a toaster, where the camera module heats up quite a bit even during normal use. The SoC is behind the volume rocker, which is below the camera.

 

[Aflaaaak]

Love your post - well written & asking a very important question that could help us all - I salute you!

Shame that, fairly predictably, answers quickly veered off topic.

I share your curiosity - how were forum members that had this problem using their phones? Light/moderate usage? Heavy (video, gaming) usage? Was your phone always running hot, or did it start running hot just before failure?

There seems to be a consensus that heat 'caused' the failures. I know little about electronics but wonder if a bad joint (I say 'bad' because life's too short to argue the toss between dry & fractured joints) strained the system, which led to overheating, which stressed the bad joint further, & repeat, until the whole thing spiraled into failure.

My (unqualified) guess is that some (many?) motherboards left the factory with bad joints. I'd love to know if the fact that I only give my phone light use makes my phone immune to this failure, or whether it's a complete lottery.

Thanks for steering the topic back in the direction I intended it, Carl_L .
For the record, the only time my phone gets hot is when it's in my pocket and I'm not using it. I assumed it was from an OTA update or some app was Phoning Home. It hasn't done this in a while though, probably since the last big Verizon update that preceded the Android MM update.

 

[Bruce39]

I have a Verizon 505 bought in Aug. I am a VERY light user. Generally go 2 or 3 days (possible to go longer) per charge. The only time I have ever noticed heat was during the M update. I had the phone charging during part of the update. The heat was noticable, and toward the top near the camera. If Gsam stats are correct , the battery never got over 75 deg. Had to be the processor or top of motherboard & not the battery.

 

[Rich215]

I am in a boat like Bruce39.....not a heavy user with phone but only notice the G4 getting hot with running gps mapping and Qi charging.

I added the Qi/nfc sticker to replace the stock one and like to slow charge the phone while I sleep. It does get warmer than my Nexus 6 while using the Qi charger (tylt vu...only way to go with peak charge sensor).

I am now having 2nd thoughts with using the Qi charger with the G4. I do not want to kill the motherboard so fast......wait....or do I? As long as it it within my 1 year warranty. Just got this phone new couple weeks ago.

 

[Mooncatt]

I do not want to kill the motherboard so fast......wait....or do I? As long as it it within my 1 year warranty. Just got this phone new couple weeks ago.

I normally wouldn't say this, but I think in the case of the G4, run it like you stole it. Heat that thing up and pretty much try to get the defect to show up. If you need help, run BOINC to do some distributive computing. That'll heat up a phone and help further research in the process.

The ONLY reason I'd consider that is if it's going to break, it'll likely happen during the warranty period. If that doesn't break the phone in the warranty period, chances are it's a good one. I know it sounds counterintuitive, but this is one time I'd rather a ticking time bomb go off sooner rather than later. Or do like I did and get an extended warranty that keeps it covered much longer.

 

[anon(782252)]

I think people are a little too hung up on the perception of how hot the phone is getting. If you are feeling a little warmth or heat on the back of the phone, then the passive heatsink is doing its job of pulling heat away from the SoC.

The problem was a manufacturing defect. The exact reason is anyone's guess but the fact that the freezer trick has worked leads to a soldering issue being a probable culprit.

The fact that LG set the throttling threshold so low makes me wonder if they were concerned about the design or knew they had manufactured tens of thousands of devices that might be an issue and took a chance instead of eating the loss, tossing the inventory, and delaying launch.

With good design and manufacturing, these chips and solder joints are designed to take much more heat than they are allowed to before throttling kicks in.

But again, that heat has to go somewhere in a passive system which is why it is felt on the back of the phone.