Random Reboots: Put to Rest!

[dmarlow83]

Hey man, well into my 2nd day with zero reboots with a new phone from the CLN program, and I did the update as soon as I opened the box pretty much. I figured, one of two things could happen, it could reboot, and blame the networks, or it could be fixed and we can legitimately blame the hardware.

I still tend to agree with big red on this one that the firmware update didn't take on some phones for whatever reason, but I can tell you with out a doubt I've had no reboots in the two days since I got the new phone and the update.

While they can't guarantee it, I really think it's worth a shot. I can't have 5 million reboots a day, and thats what it seemed like... and now they are in fact gone... Hope this helps!

 

[Mortiel]

Mortiel, you've got some good things to say, but yout post reads in a pretty obnoxious way. I'm not sure if that was your intent, but I hope you don't treat your customers that way.

It doesn't much matter if it is Verizon's fault or not, as long as customers think it is Verizon's fault they will be unhappy with them. If Verizon doesn't want to lose customers, THEY need to fix this.

It is reasonable for a customer to blame Verizon for this issue and here is why- Who wrote the OTA? Verizon, or HTC? If Verizon wrote it soley, BAM! Blame/liability. If they wrote it with HTC... BAM! Partial blame/liability. If HTC wrote it on their own, I'm sure Verizon does some sort of quality control testing before they push updates, right? You know, to make sure it will work on their network and with their pre-loaded bloatware... I hope they do. If they don't this was their fault for pushing something that was crap quality to their customers and breaking their phones. BAM! Partial blame/liability. If they do, it is their fault for not doing a good enough job of that testing. BAM! Partial blame/liabily. See how that works?

If Verizon can't give their customer a replacement phone that has a reasonable guarantee it will work properly, they need to give that customer a similar device of their choice, free of charge (which according to the forums they have already done in some cases). If that is not an acceptable solution to the customer, they need to allow the customer to drop VZW with no termination fee. Why should Verizon do this? Well, as already established, they (Verizon) just broke an item owned by the customer and valued at well over 200 dollars.

You understand the technological aspect very well, but you do not understand the customer service side of this issue. If Verizon loses a one time cost of 500 bucks (I highly doubt big V pays 500 bucks for a Charge or a Revolution, but anyway) on one-third of Thunderbolt users by replacing their phones with similar phones that is still better in the long-run than losing ten percent of those customers to either early termination or non-renewal of their contract caused by poor customer service.

Also to say big V has "no control" over this issue is insane. Here is how I would have handled the issue if I was high up in the VZW foodchain- Step 1, stop the OTA as a damage control method to stop breaking phones. Step 2, advice customers who have had issues post-OTA to do a factory reset. Since the new OTA no longer exists this *should* push them back to the old OTA (if I'm not understanding the technological aspects behind this, and that step won't work, fine, my method still works) Step 3, take your stock of like-new replacements and manually (or via factory reset if that will work) wipe the OTA from any of them that have it. Step 3, replace broken phones with like new replacements that do not have the OTA. Step 4, adjust the bill for those customers who have had reboot issues as a way of "making things right," with the customer.

Here is the bottom line, you can tech-talk circles around us, and that's an awesome skill, but big V is at a minimum partially liable for breaking it's customers phones, and it is their job to fix it in a way that pleases the customer, even if it costs them some money in the short term.

Sorry if I sound like a jerk, but your defending of Verizon in this situation just doesn't sit well with me.

By the way, I've had no issues with my Thunderbolt, and have been a VZW customer for five years.

I'll start off here by saying that I did come off rather obnoxious and rude in my last post, which I should not have... Like everyone else, I have my good days and bad days.

Aside, on the Tech support side, we end up being the clean up crew for all the screw ups everyone else makes, but its actually rather rewarding to be able to give a definitive fix. It feels good to hear a customer elated because suddenly everything is working.

The problem being, is there are some issues we cannot fix. We do not have a magic wand to make everything go poof and all be better. The only way for this OTA update to be rolled back is if HTC released a roll-back kit which would have to be administered via something like HTC Sync's application loader or an Android Market app. A factory data reset (master reset) will NOT affect the OTA, even if we stop pushing it out. Once its installed on the phone, the only way to uninstall it is with a roll-back kit or by rooting the phone and flashing a custom kernal/radio version simultaneously. That is waaay above my pay-grade.

Now, I will agree that it is perfectly acceptable to allow the customer the ability to get another device free of charge. It technically is not covered in any policy, but we do make that exception in some cases. I will add that the alternate replacement MUST be a comparable device, and forget about the iPhone. Literally, we cannot manually discount the iPhone whatsoever.

I understand the customer service side of things better than my previous post might have let on, but all of you here already know the customer side. I was poorly attempting to explain the business side of things. I failed at that, but that happens.

I will adamantly say, however, that I never try to "tech-talk" circles around the people here. I have the assumption that most of the people here either know as much as me about Android, or more. I may have guessed poorly there, but I don't think so.

 

[jking3002]

Didn't mean that you did with the tech-talk, just that you could if you wanted to.

If a roll-back app is needed from HTC, big V should push them for one (not that they aren't). Then when people called you, you could just direct them to download an app, and BAM, problem solved!

Mortiel, maybe we should just run Verizon? Not the details, just be "idea guys?"

 

[Mortiel]

Didn't mean that you did with the tech-talk, just that you could if you wanted to.

If a roll-back app is needed from HTC, big V should push them for one (not that they aren't). Then when people called you, you could just direct them to download an app, and BAM, problem solved!

Mortiel, maybe we should just run Verizon? Not the details, just be "idea guys?"

You meet the right people, there are people working for any big corps that get paid to just think up things.

 

[Komodod]

Had a total of 3 reboots....then nothing. Fine for a while now.

 

[busman]

Well, I do apologize that you have had such an issue with you and your wife's phones. Now there are a few things you have to consider with ANY carrier, Verizon Wireless included:

A. The "like new" replacement program is not through Verizon Wireless, it is through the manufacturer. That is why it is called a "manufacturer warranty replacement". Verizon does not have a team of people sitting around inspecting phones. Instead, we have to run interference when a manufacturer devices do not work how people expect. Verizon is given these devices to a central warehouse from a given manufacturer on a "loan" of sorts, to which me must ship a device back to that manufacturer matching the same model, or else we have to pay for the device at full retail.

Yes, you could counter with the self-entitled response we hear so often that since its Verizon's problem, then Verizon should front that cost and give you a brand new phone. Fair enough, but what would it help if we shipped you 10 brand new phones that all have the same rebooting issue (which a new phone will not fix until the software is fixed), to which Verizon is just flushing money down the drain. Verizon can no longer sell those returned phones as new. They get shipped back to HTC as defective, repaired, and subsequently placed in "like-new" warranty replacement stock as free replacements. Thats ~$570 per device Verizon loses. That adds up to a major loss in money. Less money means Verizon cannot afford to upkeep its solid 3G network, or improve its fledgling 4G network. That means that $200+ bill you have would end up $500+, or either that Verizon ends up with the quality of network akin to AT&T, which was rated worst by every Tech blog and consumer reporting agency in the USA.

B. Being the adult answer, you, in a clear state of mind, agreed to purchase those Thunderbolts in an agreement to HTC's warranty. This warranty states that if your device is defective outside of your 14 day return policy, you may have it replaced at no cost to you with a certified like new replacement (CLNR). You have every right to end that contract and pay the early termination fee, but please to not complain about something you agreed to in clear conscience. If you wish to have HTC directly repair your device instead of Verizon replacing it, you can find their number on the HTC website, but they charge for the repairs.

C. Finally, if your issue is with reboots, then no amount of replacements will fix it if the CLNR you received was a returned device resulting from the OTA software update cause power cycling. Most of that stock are check for hardware, the OS is reloaded with same updates, and sent to Verizon's warehouse. This is something that is a logical deduction. If you are lucky, you may get a rare replacement that was in the warehouse previous to the update, but that may take multiple replacements. Again, this is all logically concluded if you think about it.

All in all, yes, it is an infuriating issue. Anger is a natural response to something infuriating, but no matter how angry you get, it will not give Verizon a magic wand to change something they have no control over. Verizon is trying its best to keep its customers happy with this issue, but there is a limit to what it is willing to sacrifice (sending you a brand new phone for free) when the sacrifice will obviously not do any good except make you feel warmer inside while your phone is still power cycling.

If you are that unhappy, have received several replacements for the same issue, and do not mind paying some money, then ask the next rep you talk to about getting a manager approved upgrade to another device. You will have no problem getting that accepted granted that you can pay your bill on time, have been with Verizon for a couple of years, and do not complain until you get a new phone every other month.

This is Bull****, this is the same/ verbaitum You posted a month ago, with this many complaints it does not bode well for Big Red, Hows it feel to work for a corporation that says Piss on the hand that feed it? Word of mouth advertising will bite them in the Ass.