Switch from Sprint to Verizon?

a key feature for me with Sprint is the UNLIMITED VOICE ANY MOBILE TO MOBILE MINUTES. i have the 450 minute anytime plan and i pay $74/month after all taxes, fees, and discounts. this gives me 450 anytime voice minutes, unlimited data, unlimited texts, and unlimited mobile to mobile minutes. the unlimited mobile to mobile minutes is sweet because i can talk to anybody on any mobile phone no matter what the carrier for as long as i want and never have to worry about it - i don't have to pick 5 etc.

what do i do most?

mobile to mobile voice to anyone everyone all carriers - unlimited
texts - unlimited
data - unlimited

i love it. worry free.

can anyone beat this $74/month total offering?
 
I had a family plan, plus the 10 x2 extra bucks for "premium data" (smoking 300kbs per second d/l speed) plus taxes and fees. My bill was around 180. My VZW bill with similar features is only 14 bucks more. I don't know what savings people are talking about when they mention Sprint. Maybe for single accounts, but not family plans. Not to mention how abysmal their speeds are.

However, I wouldn't use the WiMax fiasco as evidence of the speed they'll deploy LTE. Sprint has known for a long time that WiMax's days were numbered, and likely didn't want to waste resources rolling out a soon to be dead wireless format. I'm sure they'll be much more aggressive with their LTE deployment. That's one thing worth considering.
 
I do not understand why people bring price into it. Yeah Sprint is a few bucks cheaper, they have to be since their network is terrible. They obviously cannot charge a premium price for their crappy service. If that was the case nobody would be in Sprint.

If money is an issue then Sprint is a good choice. If money is not an issue then hands down Verizon is the better network to be on. People paying more money for better service is nothing new in this world and that is just how it is.

Funny thing is Sprint is raising prices all around without directly saying it but not offering any improvements to their network. They got rid of discounts on lines above 2. Then removed discounts on line 2. Removed the premier program. Also raised their cancellation fee to $350. Upped the admin fee to $1.50.

So, while they didn't directly raise their price for their plans, all these other changes financial effect you on Sprint while 3G speeds continue to go down, not building out Wimax anymore, and building a whole new LTE network over the next 2 years to hopefully catch up to the competition.

How can Sprint actually raise their prices more after all of this...Would anyone really jump from another carrier if they did and would anyone actually resign if their contract was up. If Sprint raises their prices another $10-$15 they won't even be cheaper then their competition and you will be stuck on an inferior network.
 
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Depends on which carrier has the better service for you. In my area...and areas I spend most of my time....Sprint is amazingly bad. Its wild cuz Sprint is real nice at my job and I live near my job.

Verizon and AT&T are the best for me....with AT&T probably having a lil better reception. Basing this on my PS Vita having a better mobile data connection in my apt than my Verizon phones. Dont know about phone reception....yet.

My kids mother cant use her iPhone 4 and Nexus S in her apt for data related things. I get alot better reception with my Verizon phones at her place.

Depends on the service. Forget about price or phone selection.
 
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I had a family plan, plus the 10 x2 extra bucks for "premium data" (smoking 300kbs per second d/l speed) plus taxes and fees. My bill was around 180. My VZW bill with similar features is only 14 bucks more. I don't know what savings people are talking about when they mention Sprint. Maybe for single accounts, but not family plans. Not to mention how abysmal their speeds are.

However, I wouldn't use the WiMax fiasco as evidence of the speed they'll deploy LTE. Sprint has known for a long time that WiMax's days were numbered, and likely didn't want to waste resources rolling out a soon to be dead wireless format. I'm sure they'll be much more aggressive with their LTE deployment. That's one thing worth considering.

Sprint relied on clearwire to deploy WiMAX on Clearwire's very high 2.5GHz spectrum.

Sprint is deploying LTE on Sprint's own spectrum with all new equipment.

Big difference between the two.

I really don't think you can, in any way, compare what Clearwire did to what Sprint is doing with LTE.
 
For me, it's specifically about having LTE in my area, not waiting for another phone. There'll always be better phones months away. Since Verizon shows full bars of LTE in my area right now, and I don't even go over 1GB of data per month, I'll probably make the switch. (to the Verizon GN, since it's only $99 on Amazon wireless). To wait for Sprint to possibly get LTE in my area would be like denying a perfectly good heart transplant from Verizon right now, just for loyalty's sake) Thanks for all the input!

Sprint will have Orange County covered with LTE by the end of 2012.

Not that big of a wait.
 
Sprint relied on clearwire to deploy WiMAX on Clearwire's very high 2.5GHz spectrum.

Sprint is deploying LTE on Sprint's own spectrum with all new equipment.

Big difference between the two.

I really don't think you can, in any way, compare what Clearwire did to what Sprint is doing with LTE.

You're right, but you also have to consider that sprint doesn't have 20 MHz available in most markets in the pcs band that it's deploying lte in, iirc for the most part it has 10 MHz available (presumably will be configured in 5+5 MHz FD LTE with SISO) and thus would have half the theoretical single user performance that Verizon or AT&T does, and wouldn't be stacking sectors like clear can do, so once the network is fully loaded presuming the same number of users, performance on LTE on sprint might be a third of what it is on clear WiMAX (as clear usually devotes 30 MHz).
 
You're right, but you also have to consider that sprint doesn't have 20 MHz available in most markets in the pcs band that it's deploying lte in, iirc for the most part it has 10 MHz available (presumably will be configured in 5+5 MHz FD LTE with SISO) and thus would have half the theoretical single user performance that Verizon or AT&T does, and wouldn't be stacking sectors like clear can do, so once the network is fully loaded presuming the same number of users, performance on LTE on sprint might be a third of what it is on clear WiMAX (as clear usually devotes 30 MHz).

For starters, I am sort of surprised you are comparing 10MHzx3 of TD WiMAX deployed by clear in the ERS/BRS band to Sprint's 5x5MHz FD-LTE in the PCS band. I am even more surprised that you would say it "might be a third of what it is on clear WiMAX". They are totally different deployments with totally different goals. Sprint's 5x5MHz FD-LTE (nationwide 5x5 G block of PCS band) will do over 30mbit unloaded and drift down to speeds that are very competitive against AT&T and Verizon (early tests have already confirmed this).

Look at what Sprint even says about 4G wimax vs 4G LTE (official sprint numbers)

4G WiMAX) 3Mbps to 6Mbps download and up to 1.5Mbps upload

4G LTE 6 - 8 Mbps with peak speeds of 25 Mbps

You also fail to mention that Verizon has over 80 million postpaid subs and sprint has under 30 million postpaid subs... you have almost triple the amount of potential users and only double the deployed spectrum on less "towers" - not a huge advantage if you ask me. Verizon is also deploying @ 700MHz, not 1900MHz. In urban areas, Sprint will have much more capacity because they will have more cells that are active with LTE. Verizon will have to come back and backfill.

Sprint is also deploying a "LTE-Advanced Ready" network where all of their hardware already supports LTE-Advanced (rev 10). From there, they will drop another 5x5MHz of FD-LTE in 2013 on their ESMR band + whatever clearwire decides to do in congested major metro markets (figure at least 20+20MHz of TD-LTE). It will all be aggregated and invisible to the user - just more capacity. So are they stacking? No. Are they aggregating? Yes. Aggregating is FAR better than "stacking".

Sprint's actually in a pretty good position moving forward. Are they going to have coverage like Verizon? No. But if you are in Sprint's service area, it should be very competitive.
 
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4G is a created market there was no demand for it until it was introduced (prematurely). if u wanna burn through money, battery life. and enjoy capped data then go right ahead but as soon as u hit that 2gb or 4gb (whichever over priced plan you choose) limit which wont take long its a wrap for the month might as well use wifi which is gonna give u about the same speed. I say stay but at the end of the day its your choice. Be pateint save money > Jump ship spend more???
 
I live in the Inland Empire area which is close to Orange Country, CA and i don't have 4G Wimax in Corona but i can get it in Chino and Pomona, so i'm gonna stay and get the galaxy nexus. I'm sure at least the 4G signal will reach there. At first i wanted to just import the international version of the Gnex but thats gonna be too expensive and while i want a nexus badly, i'm not going to pay 500+ for a phone. Plus the unlimitied data is a big plus. I'm cool with getting 2Mbps on 3G thats good enough to hold me over until LTE comes around. I can always use Wifi at home.
 
For starters, I am sort of surprised you are comparing 10MHzx3 of TD WiMAX deployed by clear in the ERS/BRS band to Sprint's 5x5MHz FD-LTE in the PCS band. I am even more surprised that you would say it "might be a third of what it is on clear WiMAX". They are totally different deployments with totally different goals. Sprint's 5x5MHz FD-LTE (nationwide 5x5 G block of PCS band) will do over 30mbit unloaded and drift down to speeds that are very competitive against AT&T and Verizon (early tests have already confirmed this).

Look at what Sprint even says about 4G wimax vs 4G LTE (official sprint numbers)

4G WiMAX) 3Mbps to 6Mbps download and up to 1.5Mbps upload

4G LTE 6 - 8 Mbps with peak speeds of 25 Mbps

You also fail to mention that Verizon has over 80 million postpaid subs and sprint has under 30 million postpaid subs... you have almost triple the amount of potential users and only double the deployed spectrum on less "towers" - not a huge advantage if you ask me. Verizon is also deploying @ 700MHz, not 1900MHz. In urban areas, Sprint will have much more capacity because they will have more cells that are active with LTE. Verizon will have to come back and backfill.

Sprint is also deploying a "LTE-Advanced Ready" network where all of their hardware already supports LTE-Advanced (rev 10). From there, they will drop another 5x5MHz of FD-LTE in 2013 on their ESMR band + whatever clearwire decides to do in congested major metro markets (figure at least 20+20MHz of TD-LTE). It will all be aggregated and invisible to the user - just more capacity. So are they stacking? No. Are they aggregating? Yes. Aggregating is FAR better than "stacking".

Sprint's actually in a pretty good position moving forward. Are they going to have coverage like Verizon? No. But if you are in Sprint's service area, it should be very competitive.

First, can R10 aggregate TD and FD LTE? I know that's not what you are really suggesting but I was curious about it.

Which LTE bands are current or near future sprint devices able to support?

At the base of it, it is 30 MHz, 64QAM, 2x2 mimo vs 5 MHz, 64QAM, SISO, unless I've got one of those points wrong (is sprint doing SISO?) why would the LTE example be able to outperform the WiMAX example in the ideal case for each?

The gain of aggregate vs stacking is about 10% on HSPA for geographic sector throughput, and I don't know what it is for LTE or WiMAX (I read a single paper on this that focused on HSPA) but even at 20% loss in efficiency, and presuming attenuation loss vs 1.9 GHz at about 50%, each WiMAX tower is still going to be able to deliver more than each LTE tower in 30 MHz wimax markets, and given that it's TD it's possible that the majority of that 30 MHz gets used for forward link vs 5 MHz of forward link in LTE.

In the simplified hypothetical town being supported by a single clear tower being outright switched to a single LTE tower those townsfolk will go from 30 MHz (with some efficiency loss because it is stacked, as you mention, but not that much) to 5 MHz, with no ability to aggregate until R10 deploys.

Compared to verizon, it's also not as simple as halving the spectrum in LTE to give you half the delivered bandwidth, you get less than half of the payload bandwidth in half the spectrum, but I really wasn't intending to compare Verizon to Sprint LTE, I was intending to compare clear WiMAX to sprint's intended LTE deployment on PCS. There are other factors that complicate it, such as sprint intending to also use clear's TD LTE in the future to relieve some of the load and evolution to R10 - which Verizon will also do and in some markets, at least, verizon has a fair amount of spectrum they can deploy R10 in, as sprint evolves, Verizon and AT&T will evolve as well, and average use per UE will go up, but it will go up faster on sprint's unmetered network.


From what I had last read, clear was intending or expected to deploy r10 in 60 MHz in the lower part of their spectrum.
 
First, can R10 aggregate TD and FD LTE? I know that's not what you are really suggesting but I was curious about it.

I was wondering the same thing - WiWavelength over at srgru.com confirmed that you can aggregate unpaired spectrum to paired spectrum. You wouldn't be aggregating FD and TD but just taking spectrum and bonding it to the downstream to create a 5x25 setup, and since the uplink is typically limited by power limits on the handset, you wouldn't see the same performance limitations in terms of coverage that we saw with TD WiMAX deployment.

Which LTE bands are current or near future sprint devices able to support?
Next year I am sure they will have phones that support LTE on ESMR, PCS, and ERS/BRS bands. Right now current phones only support LTE on the PCS band. Don't forget though that as other devices in the future get multiple-band support, current devices on PCS should also see the benefit as there will be less load on PCS band. They can also convert (aggregate) other spectrum in the PCS band, and there is the H block auction coming up, which would allow sprint to have a nationwide 10x10 FD-LTE deployment in PCS band.

At the base of it, it is 30 MHz, 64QAM, 2x2 mimo vs 5 MHz, 64QAM, SISO, unless I've got one of those points wrong (is sprint doing SISO?) why would the LTE example be able to outperform the WiMAX example in the ideal case for each?

Sprint is deploying MIMO. At the base of it, it is 10MHz times 3 (30MHz total). Clear can't aggregate, so you are limited to what 10MHz can do. Sure, if both were 100% loaded up, WiMAX would outperform, but that isn't the case and as Sprint's LTE network starts to become loaded, they are moving to ESMR 5x5, more LTE in PCS band, and will "roam" on clearwire's TD-LTE network which will just move tonnage.

The gain of aggregate vs stacking is about 10% on HSPA for geographic sector throughput, and I don't know what it is for LTE or WiMAX (I read a single paper on this that focused on HSPA) but even at 20% loss in efficiency, and presuming attenuation loss vs 1.9 GHz at about 50%, each WiMAX tower is still going to be able to deliver more than each LTE tower in 30 MHz wimax markets, and given that it's TD it's possible that the majority of that 30 MHz gets used for forward link vs 5 MHz of forward link in LTE.

Aggregating leads to single user performance increases. Look at Sprint's EVDO network, EVDO is limited to 3.1mbit max - they can't aggregate it. You see a large performance increase when sprint adds another EVDO carrier but you still can't break the 3.1mbit max. With aggregation, it just adds up. In real world tests, on an unloaded network, I was able to hit 15.5mbit down with WiMAX. Today, I can almost certainly promise that you will see speeds on Sprint's 5x5 FD-LTE network that VASTLY exceed this (25-30+mbit).

In the simplified hypothetical town being supported by a single clear tower being outright switched to a single LTE tower those townsfolk will go from 30 MHz (with some efficiency loss because it is stacked, as you mention, but not that much) to 5 MHz, with no ability to aggregate until R10 deploys.
Sort of - First off, clearwire wholesales their network and offered home broadband plans etc. Second, look at Verizon. They've had LTE for 2 years and only 10% of their base is on it. Sprint doesn't need gobs of spectrum - they need a national deployment plan. 5x5 is only to start, not to futureproof their network. I definitely agree that all other things being equal, 30MHz of WiMAX = more total throughput than 5x5 of FD-LTE. The user experience will be different though - each user will see max speeds increase across the board because of less users, better coverage and a proper deployment.


Compared to verizon, it's also not as simple as halving the spectrum in LTE to give you half the delivered bandwidth, you get less than half of the payload bandwidth in half the spectrum, but I really wasn't intending to compare Verizon to Sprint LTE, I was intending to compare clear WiMAX to sprint's intended LTE deployment on PCS. There are other factors that complicate it, such as sprint intending to also use clear's TD LTE in the future to relieve some of the load and evolution to R10 - which Verizon will also do and in some markets, at least, verizon has a fair amount of spectrum they can deploy R10 in, as sprint evolves, Verizon and AT&T will evolve as well, and average use per UE will go up, but it will go up faster on sprint's unmetered network.
It will be curious to see how traffic on Sprint's network grows. I am guessing it is going to just skyrocket. In areas that Sprint has clearwire provide "fat pipes" of relief capacity, I suspect it is going to remain very fast. Even overall, I suspect with all the new QoS services Sprint will have, performance of the network will remain competitive.

From what I had last read, clear was intending or expected to deploy r10 in 60 MHz in the lower part of their spectrum.
Clear is going to have monster speeds. 20+20+20 or 20+20, whatever they do, it's going to be the fastest in the industry.

I suggest heading over to s4gru.com - you seem to be interested in this stuff (like I am). They are a great resource and I've learned almost everything from them. Very friendly group over there.
 
Aggregating leads to single user performance increases. Look at Sprint's EVDO network, EVDO is limited to 3.1mbit max - they can't aggregate it. You see a large performance increase when sprint adds another EVDO carrier but you still can't break the 3.1mbit max. With aggregation, it just adds up. In real world tests, on an unloaded network, I was able to hit 15.5mbit down with WiMAX. Today, I can almost certainly promise that you will see speeds on Sprint's 5x5 FD-LTE network that VASTLY exceed this (25-30+mbit).


Sort of - First off, clearwire wholesales their network and offered home broadband plans etc. Second, look at Verizon. They've had LTE for 2 years and only 10% of their base is on it. Sprint doesn't need gobs of spectrum - they need a national deployment plan. 5x5 is only to start, not to futureproof their network. I definitely agree that all other things being equal, 30MHz of WiMAX = more total throughput than 5x5 of FD-LTE. The user experience will be different though - each user will see max speeds increase across the board because of less users, better coverage and a proper deployment.

Looking for single user performance is not the right approach in judging performance, the average tower serves about 1000 UE meaning around 330 per 120° sector, and even if only 10% of them are active that's 30 users. With three stacked sectors you only have 10 users per 10 MHz sector. Even with sparse loading, you only need 9 users per tower to make the stacked sectors useful.

Everything about the cellular protocols is built presuming there will always be multiple users, TDMA, CDMA, OFDMA - if it had been presumed that single serviced user were a frequent occurrence I'd imagine that there would be additional operating modes with no frequency division at all. Notice in the earlier categories of WCDMA there wasn't even a provision for a single handset using all of the available spreading codes, even in a theoretical single user sector it could have used no more than 5/16th of the resources at first, then later 10/16ths, and now the versions of WCDMA being referred to at 4G allow for 15/16 of the resource to be used.

It really is probably better to completely ignore single user peak performance when considering different mobile networks. At some point in the future LTE Advanced will be fully deployed and implemented and we will be walking around in a field of microcells and we really might get down to a couple users per servicing cell (though they still talk about using LTE as the back haul as well) but right now aggregating doesn't add too much to average user throughput - as I said in HSPA using two stacked 5mhz sectors is only about 10% worse on average than aggregating those sectors.

As far as s4gru, thanks for the recommendation. Almost all of the ITU standards documents can be read freely and there are a lot of textbooks and studies of the various approaches available, and of course it's always more valuable to use a reviewed paper as a guide than yet another forum, but I'll join nonetheless
 
Sorry to say it but the Galaxy nexus will be old news by the time sprint gets it. And how many high end phones has sprint got besides the Gs2? In the last two moths Verizon has had the Galaxy nexus, Rezound, and the Razr Max. I actually left due to the double the data because 3g is abysmal and wimax cant penetrate a wet paper bag. Those phones are not irrelevant because its choice I want. But truthfully their data network is pathetic next to Verizon. Post ur speed tests if ur on sprint and Ill post mine. I'm sure it won't even be close. Lol

From the best android phone PERIOD. Galaxy Nexus.

Honestly, sprint has 2 decent high ends, moto photon and of course the gs2 (if you consider that high end) and soon to come evo 4g lte and the gnex...

It's all up to choice and opinion. I get wimax everywhere where I'm at. Sprint bill is considerably less than verizon, and verizon wanted an insane deposit from me.

Swyped from my Photon using t-talk 2
 
Verizons prices are outrageous and the data limit kills it.

Yes the lte is fast and they have a solid network, but I'll save 70 a month to have slower 3G and a dropped call or two.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
 
Looking for single user performance is not the right approach in judging performance, the average tower serves about 1000 UE meaning around 330 per 120? sector, and even if only 10% of them are active that's 30 users. With three stacked sectors you only have 10 users per 10 MHz sector. Even with sparse loading, you only need 9 users per tower to make the stacked sectors useful.

Everything about the cellular protocols is built presuming there will always be multiple users, TDMA, CDMA, OFDMA - if it had been presumed that single serviced user were a frequent occurrence I'd imagine that there would be additional operating modes with no frequency division at all. Notice in the earlier categories of WCDMA there wasn't even a provision for a single handset using all of the available spreading codes, even in a theoretical single user sector it could have used no more than 5/16th of the resources at first, then later 10/16ths, and now the versions of WCDMA being referred to at 4G allow for 15/16 of the resource to be used.

It really is probably better to completely ignore single user peak performance when considering different mobile networks. At some point in the future LTE Advanced will be fully deployed and implemented and we will be walking around in a field of microcells and we really might get down to a couple users per servicing cell (though they still talk about using LTE as the back haul as well) but right now aggregating doesn't add too much to average user throughput - as I said in HSPA using two stacked 5mhz sectors is only about 10% worse on average than aggregating those sectors.

As far as s4gru, thanks for the recommendation. Almost all of the ITU standards documents can be read freely and there are a lot of textbooks and studies of the various approaches available, and of course it's always more valuable to use a reviewed paper as a guide than yet another forum, but I'll join nonetheless


Single user is absolutely the way to look at it - because that's how it is experienced from the user end. While I obviously agree that networks are built to serve more than one person, how to do you measure in aggregate? You can't.

Once the network starts getting loaded, Sprint has a number of actions it can take to increase speeds (add more LTE to PCS band, add to ESMR band, TD-LTE via clearwire, or even add more cells).

We can only measure via the end user at a single point in time. Speculating on how the network is going to perform over time is hard to do but it is worth noting that Sprint does have options when that starts to happen.
 
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Verizons prices are outrageous and the data limit kills it.

Yes the lte is fast and they have a solid network, but I'll save 70 a month to have slower 3G and a dropped call or two.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2
Your dropped call issue will go away if you purchase a phone with a stronger cell radio. I have never dropped a call with my Moto. Samsung, a different story. (Also, The E3D has a weak radio.)
 
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How does one go about measuring radio strength, and comparing one cell phones radios to another? Call quality and signal strength are the number one priority for me, and I like a lot of these cell phones, but I have no idea if they are crapper in the phone call dept. or not.
 
How does one go about measuring radio strength, and comparing one cell phones radios to another? Call quality and signal strength are the number one priority for me, and I like a lot of these cell phones, but I have no idea if they are crapper in the phone call dept. or not.
Some people compare the signal strength levels in the android system menu, however there is debate on if this number is accurate.

One of the simplest ways to determine this is to go to an area where cell signal is weak and see what phones drop. It may not be the most scientific test, but I found the phones that drop have problems and the phones that don't, well don't.

I've based my statements on personal experience. I've went through many phones in a short amount of time and found Motorola to definitely have the strongest cell radio and Samsung to definitely have the weakest. HTC varies based on model, I was happy with the EVO and unhappy with the E3D.

I am very sensitive to signal strength and call reliability. I really hope Motorola announced a successor on Sprint soon. (Or the EVO LTE is excellent)
 
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