The verge review

[ThrottleJohnny]

True. However, these bloggers make their living based upon the monetization of their content. They have access to products and technology that the rest of us don't. My point is that they should have been confident enough to provide clarity and admit their error so that the impression of the device wouldn't have been damaged and the level of blowback on Samsung would have been mitigated.

Right. But like everything else these days, the need for "clicks" and "views" overrides total authenticity. How are you going to do those 5 follow up videos if you clear everything up the first time by rightfully calling out Samsung, but also admitting what you could have done differently. But nope, we're getting 5 videos from each outlet "techspaining" why the Fold phones are randomly breaking before Samsung can even examine their own product.

It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. And it's mostly theater, because most everyday people interested in a new Samsung device will be buying the S10, not the Fold.

 

[alanjc]

Most of this is spot on. But a main point here is Samsung got the Devi's back and other than placing clearer warnings about not peeling the film off, decided there was nothing of merit to warrant delaying the device. Bearing in mind their share prices fell by 3% just from 4 devices getting broken, they risk a huge fall if these devices aren't ready for market.

Samsung themselves wouldn't want these things breaking all over the world, so they don't seem to think that there's actually an issue here.

There were a few resistive touch screen devices back in the day that had warnings about using screen protectors (because many back then used stronger adhesive) as you risked damaging the display if you peeled it off. But back then it was common for screens to be plastic so if someone broke their device by doing that more people were aware that it was user ignorance/error and I don't recall anyone blaming the manufacturer.

People will always ignore warnings or advice at their own peril. I like Iceland's warnings by volcanic geysers. Thin roped off section that anyone is free to step over, but with a sign warning you about boiling hot water, and the distance and location of the nearest hospital.

 

[jcp007]

Most of this is spot on. But a main point here is Samsung got the Devi's back and other than placing clearer warnings about not peeling the film off, decided there was nothing of merit to warrant delaying the device. Bearing in mind their share prices fell by 3% just from 4 devices getting broken, they risk a huge fall if these devices aren't ready for market.

Samsung themselves wouldn't want these things breaking all over the world, so they don't seem to think that there's actually an issue here.

There were a few resistive touch screen devices back in the day that had warnings about using screen protectors (because many back then used stronger adhesive) as you risked damaging the display if you peeled it off. But back then it was common for screens to be plastic so if someone broke their device by doing that more people were aware that it was user ignorance/error and I don't recall anyone blaming the manufacturer.

People will always ignore warnings or advice at their own peril. I like Iceland's warnings by volcanic geysers. Thin roped off section that anyone is free to step over, but with a sign warning you about boiling hot water, and the distance and location of the nearest hospital.

While it's true that people ignore warnings and don't read manuals, three of the four units were reviewed by high profile tech bloggers who should have been forthright in admitting the cause of their devices being damaged not as a result of manufacturing but their negligence. They, from what I understand agree to avoid damaging the units. Only after the controversy went into overdrive did they post videos and blogposts about their situations. Had they owned up in a more timely manner, the stock price and the company wouldn't have taken a hit. They were aware of the screen tech being different. If they had doubts, they could have contacted the company. Instead, they chose CYA to protect their reputations and sponsorships/monetization.

 

[donm527]

Why did Samsung make the stupid bonded outer layer not cover the entire edge to begin with instead of leaving a gap along the edges like a screen protector in the first place?? 8 year development and they couldn’t figure that out?? Terrible design idea and your inviting dust, debris and just plain wearing of the film edge over time for anyone that’s put a plastic protector have experienced.

Some say bloggers are experienced and knowledgeable enough and you’re right but two within days made a mistake and peeled it away and I feel there was no sinister plot to jointly do this. So if experienced techies did this... just imagine the average joe how many will do this if they didn’t hear about this vid or no warning label. It certainly would have happened ore often.

Doesn’t matter 8 or 18 years in development... if you can’t make a product durable enough for mass consumption then it’s not ready. And for manufacturers the benchmark for them and the only thing that matters is that a product lasts its warranty period lol. So time will tell lol. But for such a small pool of press release units to have had issues or show weakness in days... it’s off to a shaky start.

Anyone could the mistake of removing what they thought might be protective film regardless of experience.

 

[jcp007]

https://youtu.be/IOD_FnNDie0

Contrast the WAN Show video with the John Rettinger and the Lew Later YouTube videos. From the jump, Linus makes clear in his whiny way that he is miffed about not being selected to receive a Fold to review. He and his sidekick launch into a nearly 15 minute monologue about how it's habit to remove plastic protective covers and other shipping materials from other smartphones, companies and other tech. They also argue that Samsung should have put another protective film with a warning.

They raise fair points except for a couple of things. Samsung, in hindsight, could have helped themselves by adding a warning in much the same way as McDonald's adds a warning on its coffee cups even though it's common sense to avoid doing things to being burned by a boiling liquid. Our litigious society has, in some cases, put the burden on the company to compensate for the poor choices of those who use their products.

The smartphone was a delicate and unique form factor and design build. It would appear also reasonable that more care should have been taken since we aren't talking about a GS10+, whose screen protector I didn't think about removing until I posted a thread or a post in an existing thread on the topic.

There was a protective film on the back of the Fold but it appears to have a tab to facilitate its removal. It would not appear that there was one on the front. Removing the film or adding adhesives will cause damage to the screen, a WARNING in the manual. What is one of the first questions that is asked when you broke something as a kid or an adult, your parent or spouse asked, did you read the instructions.

 

[jcp007]

Why did Samsung make the stupid bonded outer layer not cover the entire edge to begin with instead of leaving a gap along the edges like a screen protector in the first place?? 8 year development and they couldn’t figure that out?? Terrible design idea and your inviting dust, debris and just plain wearing of the film edge over time for anyone that’s put a plastic protector have experienced.

Some say bloggers are experienced and knowledgeable enough and you’re right but two within days made a mistake and peeled it away and I feel there was no sinister plot to jointly do this. So if experienced techies did this... just imagine the average joe how many will do this if they didn’t hear about this vid or no warning label. It certainly would have happened ore often.

Doesn’t matter 8 or 18 years in development... if you can’t make a product durable enough for mass consumption then it’s not ready. And for manufacturers the benchmark for them and the only thing that matters is that a product lasts its warranty period lol. So time will tell lol. But for such a small pool of press release units to have had issues or show weakness in days... it’s off to a shaky start.

First, this product was not designed for mass consumption. It has reported that less 400k units have been allocated for global sales. The price alone would make all but most hardcore tech enthusiasts want to purchase a beta product that is more delicate with the plastic screen tech and unique hinge design.

Second, it was also reported that 50-100 review units were sent out. Two of the four units that started the firestorm appear to have been due to damage caused by negligence and not the device. The third unit was potentially damaged by modeling clay working up through the hinge producing enough pressure to damage the screen.

One unit out of the 50-100 review units appears not to be the catastrophic narrative that tech media is hyping to protect their own at the expense of the company. A pretty scary parallel with current events. Arguably, there will be more issues with the Fold that could be device specific and that Samsung will have to address.

As I mentioned earlier, there appears to have been a tab to remove the protective film on the back of the Fold but not on the front. Potentially a first clue to ask a question before removing it especially with such a new piece of tech whose design represents a huge design language paradigm shift.

Eight plus years of development. How long is long enough? The only way for Samsung to enhance or repair design flaws and continue to innovate is to do their best to ready a product for sale and get it in hands of civilians who are willing to be beta testors of their own free choice. If, after sufficient research and deliberation, it's not economically feasible for one to part with $2k for the device, then there is the freedom not to buy it as well.

 

[jhimmel]

Say what you want, it doesn't matter. When these things go out, if a lot of them fail for whatever reason - fragile device, weak design, or people not reading/understanding the instructions - it will be another black eye for Samsung.

 

[Mike Dee]

True. However, these bloggers make their living based upon the monetization of their content. They have access to products and technology that the rest of us don't. My point is that they should have been confident enough to provide clarity and admit their error so that the impression of the device wouldn't have been damaged and the level of blowback on Samsung would have been mitigated.

I was under the impression that they did admit their error once discovered or at least some did, but at that point alot of the damage is already done.

 

[donm527]

Honestly it just sounds like one too many excuses for a phone you trying to justify it by saying it's a phone so expensive that most people won't buy it and it's not really focused for them and it's supposed to be a limited-run model. Bad design is bad design regardless of price even if they get it 95% right.

They're going to be selling at Best Buy. They're going to be selling it with contracts to pay in installments over time and there will be many General users that will pay the 50 to $60 a month to do so. So these phones really won't be in the majority of the hands of the 1%. As for a 400000 unit run there companies like LG that would be happy to sell 400,000 units of one of their models LOL. So this is not like it's a thousand run unit.

just because they put a tab on the outer screen protector maybe because they know it won't last long and only intended to protect during shipping, is there a tab on the screen protector for their S10 model? Because some people may think that it's a nice addition for them to add that to a $2,000 phone and maybe they would like to keep it for a while before having to peel it off. again I just wonder why they just couldn't make that bonded layer go edge-to-edge. They could have designed something to tuck it under the bezel or something.

Anyways three or four in the first week really is not a representation of what will happen within the first month of launch or the first few months or even the first year so we'll have to see what happens. Its just too bad this issue had a to pop up within days and it just doesn't look good for them right out of the gate. But it is showing some real obvious weaknesses in design for a device that even though it's so expensive and so limited it is designed as a mobile device to be taken and put in pocket and to be carried in to be used much more than any other device that people lug around everyday.

 

[jcp007]

Honestly it just sounds like one too many excuses for a phone you trying to justify it by saying it's a phone so expensive that most people won't buy it and it's not really focused for them and it's supposed to be a limited-run model. Bad design is bad design regardless of price even if they get it 95% right.

They're going to be selling at Best Buy. They're going to be selling it with contracts to pay in installments over time and there will be many General users that will pay the 50 to $60 a month to do so. So these phones really won't be in the majority of the hands of the 1%. As for a 400000 unit run there companies like LG that would be happy to sell 400,000 units of one of their models LOL. So this is not like it's a thousand run unit.

just because they put a tab on the outer screen protector maybe because they know it won't last long and only intended to protect during shipping, is there a tab on the screen protector for their S10 model? Because some people may think that it's a nice addition for them to add that to a $2,000 phone and maybe they would like to keep it for a while before having to peel it off. again I just wonder why they just couldn't make that bonded layer go edge-to-edge. They could have designed something to tuck it under the bezel or something.

Anyways three or four in the first week really is not a representation of what will happen within the first month of launch or the first few months or even the first year so we'll have to see what happens. Its just too bad this issue had a to pop up within days and it just doesn't look good for them right out of the gate. But it is showing some real obvious weaknesses in design for a device that even though it's so expensive and so limited it is designed as a mobile device to be taken and put in pocket and to be carried in to be used much more than any other device that people lug around everyday.

Fair points. A less than five percent defect on a true beta, niche product is not bad. Someone has to push the envelope and be one of the first to take the risk. It seems a bit petulant in general, not referring to the OP, to excuse grown adults not reading the manual. On such a new device, I would have at least skimmed them and asked before doing it. Are you going to make modifications to a supercar without asking if it would void the warranty? If you weed out the three cases of negligence, defect rate on a beta product gets cut in half.

 

[donm527]

Really interesting look on the inside of these things. Pretty amazing to hear that the screen is like a rubbery type material. So that outer skin really keeps it together

https://www.androidpolice.com/2019/...ens-ready-to-break-if-you-look-at-them-wrong/

 

[jcp007]

I just hope that there is a way to achieve particle/liquid intrusion protection as well as smaller bezels on the outer screen and making the notch and bezels smaller on the inside.

 

[Mike Dee]

I just hope that there is a way to achieve particle/liquid intrusion protection as well as smaller bezels on the outer screen and making the notch and bezels smaller on the inside.

They should have been able to do something at least about particle entry at the hinge.

 

[clerk]

They should have been able to do something at least about particle entry at the hinge.

Agreed. Of all the noise and issues, this is a big one. What about dust, dirt, grit and lint from jeans pockets? Has to be a way to redesign the hinge so there is no opening right?

 

[Mike Dee]

Agreed. Of all the noise and issues, this is a big one. What about dust, dirt, grit and lint from jeans pockets? Has to be a way to redesign the hinge so there is no opening right?

Without having seen it hard to say what's needed but I'm sure there's a viable solution

 

[donm527]

I never thought about the hinge being an issue but that incident with Clay getting into the hinge shows a real world problem.

It may not be clay for most people but lugging around a phone everyday and putting in your pocket or if you are a lady putting in your purse all the time with debris and whatever in the bag or in your pocket could cause an issue.

Living in South Florida we like to go to the beach every once in a while so you have to worry about sand. My wife with group of friends likes to play beach volleyball with them about 2 times a week at a park. I avoid riding in her car because there is always sand in every crevice in her Lexus because I don't want even one grain of sand possibly getting into my pockets and scratching up the screen on my phone LOL. My wife takes care of all her gadgets and she's lugging around a $1,200 iPhone and wearing a Apple watch Etc that she won't care about having a bit of sand around her or a few grains clinging on her phone or even probably a few light scratches. You can't have a device keep you from doing what you want to do on a daily basis.

Last holidays family went to Switzerland and spend most of our time in 0 degree weather and extremes like going up to the Matterhorn where it was -15 degrees and 42 mile per hour winds blasting snow all over you like sand blasting. I'm pretty anal about my tech and was a little bit concerned about traveling with my Note 8 and whether or not this weather was going to affect battery and Etc and snow blaring into every crevice in the phone LOL. But at the end of the day I also felt that you can't let stuff like that be an issue when you're on a trip well wherever you go. But the phone held up like a champ and no worse for wear.

Went skiing in Colorado during holidays too and same 15 degree type weather. I ran the NY Marathon last November with phone in gear... As much as you try and baby your stuff, for most you still can't get away from having to use it like any other phone in normal use and it's gotta hold up like any other phone.

Agreed. Of all the noise and issues, this is a big one. What about dust, dirt, grit and lint from jeans pockets? Has to be a way to redesign the hinge so there is no opening right?

 

[Mike Dee]

I never thought about the hinge being an issue but that incident with Clay getting into the hinge shows a real world problem.

It may not be clay for most people but lugging around a phone everyday and putting in your pocket or if you are a lady putting in your purse all the time with debris and whatever in the bag or in your pocket could cause an issue.

Living in South Florida we like to go to the beach every once in a while so you have to worry about sand. My wife with group of friends likes to play beach volleyball with them about 2 times a week at a park. I avoid riding in her car because there is always sand in every crevice in her Lexus because I don't want even one grain of sand possibly getting into my pockets and scratching up the screen on my phone LOL. My wife takes care of all her gadgets and she's lugging around a $1,200 iPhone and wearing a Apple watch Etc that she won't care about having a bit of sand around her or a few grains clinging on her phone or even probably a few light scratches. You can't have a device keep you from doing what you want to do on a daily basis.

Last holidays family went to Switzerland and spend most of our time in 0 degree weather and extremes like going up to the Matterhorn where it was -15 degrees and 42 mile per hour winds blasting snow all over you like sand blasting. I'm pretty anal about my tech and was a little bit concerned about traveling with my Note 8 and whether or not this weather was going to affect battery and Etc and snow blaring into every crevice in the phone LOL. But at the end of the day I also felt that you can't let stuff like that be an issue when you're on a trip well wherever you go. But the phone held up like a champ and no worse for wear.

Went skiing in Colorado during holidays too and same 15 degree type weather. I ran the NY Marathon last November with phone in gear... As much as you try and baby your stuff, for most you still can't get away from having to use it like any other phone in normal use and it's gotta hold up like any other phone.

Sand getting inside the case of two my daughters phones did some cosmetic damage. Imaging what it can do trapped between the folding display

 

[donm527]

Lol just cleaned my daughter XS last night after she comes into the office saying dad I layed it on the counter and didn't notice some cosmetic gel underneath and now got into her speck case and spread along the back of phone so quick.

First world problems lol.

Sand getting inside the case of two my daughters phones did some cosmetic damage. Imaging what it can do trapped between the folding display

 

[wxman2003]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/18/samsung-galaxy-fold-review-2000-early-adopters-only-it-broke.html

 

[jhimmel]

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/18/samsung-galaxy-fold-review-2000-early-adopters-only-it-broke.html

Not good, another broken Fold, and without peeling the skin. Also, the crease looked pretty bad in that video.