Thoughts and discussion on the GB "update"

[LeslieAnn]

Rumors abound that we are getting it, I'm not convinced, here's why.

First off...
There was the whole "nothing below 1000mhz will be updated debacle" that LG debunked.
Read here: http://forum.androidcentral.com/opt...stable-w-xionia-005-01apr11-7.html#post786147
Read it carefully, we missed it at the time it seems, but while some posts are generic and one references the S, they only mention the Optimus One. Never the Optimus V, but let's not dwell on this, it's conclusive.

Virgin has said the OV would be getting GB, this is apparently true.
However, it was never said we could update current phones to it, just that GB was coming for the OV.


Here is why I think that is an issue.
While there are 2.2.2 phones out (apparently) with the V5 radio update (if you have one we want a Nandroid of it!), Virgin and LG both have admitted they have no way of actually updating the current phones. Oopsie? That's right, the V5 radio update apparently can't be installed by end users, one person was told they woudl have to take it to a store to update, the store said they had no clue how. That's not the only evidence of this problem, Virgin has stated they have no way of updating prl numbers to allow us to access new towers.

So let's recap:
There is (apparently) a 2.2.2 update, we don't have it.
There is a radio update, we don't have it.
There are PRL updates, we don't have them.
Virgin says they can't update the phones, and has shown as much.
LG says they can't update the phone, and has shown as much (we can't even get it to reliably connect through USB!)


Bottom line, my bet is that the only way to get GB will be through buying a new phone.
Unless of course you are rooted because once it's out and we can get ahold of one (and/or we get the source), you can bet we will make roms from it.

Granted, I could be wrong, but I'm not going to hold my breath for it.

 

[takehull]

If Samsung and Virgin could update the Intercept to 2.2, why wouldn't they(being LG and VM) be able to update the Optimus to 2.3?

Them(LG and VM) claiming that they can't perform a simple OTA update is completely ridiculous.

 

[mmarz]

My guess as to why VM has not released a useable update for our phone is that it would be way too easy to flash an OS to VM. From confused OV users, we know that we can install the the S firmware on the the OV. If VM provided a useable firmware, it would be trivial to buy an OS with a bad esn from ebay for $20, flash it with the OV firmware, and then change the meid and esn to that of a VM phone. That's money that VM would miss out on and then unauthorized phones would be using their network. This is possible because of tools that exist for LG phones. I'm not sure if it is the same for Samsung phones.

 

[LeslieAnn]

If Samsung and Virgin could update the Intercept to 2.2, why wouldn't they(being LG and VM) be able to update the Optimus to 2.3?

Them(LG and VM) claiming that they can't perform a simple OTA update is completely ridiculous.

That was Samsung and a different phone, not LG and not the Optimus.

Where is your V5 radio update? We know it exists, we can see it on the website, a few can even see the update in the update window on their phones, but they can't get it. We have users with it on their phones. Normally updates are pushed out before new model variations roll out to stores with the updates installed due to shipping times and manufacturing changes.

Granted, much of this is based on he said/she said, but there is evidence to back it up as well.


I'm skeptical, at best, at this point.
Get me the simple radio update, then I might change my mind.

 

[takehull]

That was Samsung and a different phone, not LG and not the Optimus.

Where is your V5 radio update? We know it exists, we can see it on the website, a few can even see the update in the update window on their phones, but they can't get it. We have users with it on their phones. Normally updates are pushed out before new model variations roll out to stores with the updates installed due to shipping times and manufacturing changes.

Granted, much of this is based on he said/she said, but there is evidence to back it up as well.


I'm skeptical, at best, at this point.
Get me the simple radio update, then I might change my mind.

I'm back on stock, actually.

I'm going to attempt to download the update while running a logcat which I will save to my sdcard. If I can get it to download, we should have the address available from which we can at least download and look at the update.zip.

That is, if it will download :-\

I understand crippling the usb updating feature if your VM. I don't understand disabling OTA updates, though. All you have to do to protect the radio image is to update it via a patch that only works for the specific radio image in the phone. It's how Samsung(I know, different brand) updated the radio in the Intercept(which meant everyone that flashed Sprint firmware on their VM Intercepts and lost their data were screwed).

 

[LeslieAnn]

My guess as to why VM has not released a useable update for our phone is that it would be way too easy to flash an OS to VM. From confused OV users, we know that we can install the the S firmware on the the OV. If VM provided a useable firmware, it would be trivial to buy an OS with a bad esn from ebay for $20, flash it with the OV firmware, and then change the meid and esn to that of a VM phone. That's money that VM would miss out on and then unauthorized phones would be using their network. This is possible because of tools that exist for LG phones. I'm not sure if it is the same for Samsung phones.

Virgin does make money on phone sales, but the real money is in the service and you still need service.

Allowing you to bring outside phones creates a support issue. When you have real support people, it's fine, but when you have trained monkeys reading from a screen, every phone presents a whole new set of screens and support issues.

 

[asadullah]

Virgin does make money on phone sales, but the real money is in the service and you still need service.

Allowing you to bring outside phones creates a support issue. When you have real support people, it's fine, but when you have trained monkeys reading from a screen, every phone presents a whole new set of screens and support issues.

I'm pretty sure we'll get the update eventually (eventually being the keyword) I mean they can still update our phones through fastboot and recovery.

 

[nickmiller71]

My question is, what's the issue with not being able to perform the software update that's currently available for the OV? Every time I go in and try to install the update via the software update section in the phone, it says that something is missing in the cache. Confusing...

 

[one80oneday]

Before GB came out LG said they wouldn't update because hardware didn't support it THEN a few days later promised to update all their phones eventually.

 

[takehull]

Any body else find it a little funny that they are using what appears to be the Optimus V in this graphic?

EDIT: The LG update tool won't even attempt to update your firmware any more. It tells you to, "Please contact your service provider for software upgrade support for this model."

 

[Retorrent]

Not going to hold my breath on this one, apparently people working at VM don't know their ass from their elbows which has been proven in the way that no one over there can give a straight answer. Only reason I want to even see this come out is because then the our devs will have a nice starting point to build the ROMs from.

 

[rwinvt]

The LG update tool won't even attempt to update your firmware any more. It tells you to, "Please contact your service provider for software upgrade support for this model."

Well--not exactly. -- It wil still attempt the update. It's just that it still won't work-- "fatal error" ( I actually called VM support and asked if there was anything I could do-- or was I going to die, no matter what)


LG provides the update, VM provides the support

I wonder why, after some 2 months, LG still leaves an update on the site that can't update- I still get notified every time I reboot my laptop that there is an update available-- while their tech support tells people that VM disabled the update ability and that you need to go to a corporate store to get the update??

I'll have to check back with LG and VM tech support and see if VM is willing to admit any knowledge of an update, and if LG is still directing customers to the the VM/Sprint corporate stores.




This is really bizarre.

 

[rwinvt]

VM tech support remains completely clueless.
No one has heard anything about an update being available. No one has heard of corporate stores having any connection to an update process.

They were able to find the entire discussion from 10 days ago in the notes-- but nothing had been done.

Higlights:

They aren't allowed to go to the LG website.
They have no phone numbers of anyone at LG.
There is no team assigned to LG or any other phone manufacturer.

This is pathetic. It's hard to believe that they are able to remain in business and have anything function properly.

 

[LeslieAnn]

They aren't allowed to go to the LG website.
They have no phone numbers of anyone at LG.
There is no team assigned to LG or any other phone manufacturer.

This is pathetic. It's hard to believe that they are able to remain in business and have anything function properly.

It's easy to understand.

You have a few techs and execs here in the US. They pick the phones and handle the real issues.

Then your techs setup your tech support drilldown charts and lay them into a simple spreadsheet that anyone can follow. Then you ship that off to India where people who can barely speak the language follow those in order to help customers. These people are run nearly like a sweat shop.

They have a certain number of people they have to "help" per day. They aren't there to troubleshoot or fix anything, they are there to read from a screen of predetermined problems and solutions, not call LG and figure it out. If they can't solve it, they escalate it. Too many escalations and they can get into trouble, so they either make something up or you get dumped. This is why so many were told about the "Android plan". It was BS and something made up at the call center to get you off the line, same with the 4 hour wait, by then, they are gone for the day.

They also are not well trained so while even though they may try and help, they simply are incapable.
Why do this? Because it's cheap.

Now, IF you can get to the real techs in the US, you MIGHT get to someone with a clue and has a number to reach someone at LG.

 

[rwinvt]

It's easy to understand....


...Why do this? Because it's cheap.

Now, IF you can get to the real techs in the US, you MIGHT get to someone with a clue and has a number to reach someone at LG.

As long as VM isn't challenged at the low entry rate--$25 per month, as long as they aren't challenged by better phones than the V and the Triumph,-they should be able to maintain steady growth in customers-- ( assuming the data outages don't continue).

Where they can be successfully challenged on service cost or phone quality and features, and customers consider customer service-- VM is in serious trouble.

And then, the lack of contracts could be as serious a detriment to their business as it was an attraction. There's nothing that holds anyone to VM beyond tomorrow ,if anyone else offers a serious challenge to what VM is offering. Given the rigght offering by another carrier, they could hemmorhage customers by the tens of thousands in no time.

I "understand" what they are thinking- by shaving money of the customer service budget. I think it's an extremely short-sighted and blinkered understanding of business. They're fortunate the V software issue is pretty negligible. If the Optimus had any inherent issues that needed an update they would be in serious trouble- right now the V is the flagship. If their were operational problems, people would leave. It doesn't matter how inexpensive the plan is if the phone doesn't work, or the network is consistently out- and no one answering the phones has a clue about the problem or the solution, they are gone. VM has nothing to offer if the V were in need of an operational update that they couldn't pull off. The Triumph isn't here, the Intercept is not a comparable phone in price or capability.
VM's success right now is based outside of their ability to control- it's dependent on the quality of the phones they but-- and they are unable to deal with any shortfalls in quality/reliability of the hardware.Or, in this case , a routine update. I'm beginning to doubt if the V will get the Gingerbread update- they simply don't have the in-house ability to carry out an update.


Meanwhile--- I talked to LG again. Not much better. This time the tech service rep there was unaware of any update issues, unaware of any problem with the update, and never heard of customers being told to go to VM corporate. He spent a good two hours with me, uninstallling and reinstalling the updater, uninstalling and reinstalling drivers, the whole routine--- no success.


He says its a phone issue and gave me an RA number to return it and they will update it to V5- ( he couldn't say how)- or replace it with one that is updated.


So, no more consensus at LG on the update story. The only real difference between LG and VM is that LG knows there is an update, but don't really how to install the update.


Don't know that it's worth being without a phone for what looks like at least a week and a half for a minor update.

 

[MarkD426]

Everyone wants the latest and greatest for nothing. VM is in business to simply sell off the old stuff to consumers that will accept little support for how cheap it is. If you want major support and new updates every few months then go to a 2 year agreement plan with a major company, pay the extra money. As it stands even with the outdated 2.2.1 or even the 2.2.2 it's still much better than the crappy simple feature phones that VM offers.

I dont mean to offend anyone but seriously, if you want to rant then get on the band wagon and pay atleast $100 a month to get your monthly updates.

 

[rwinvt]

I'd just like someone from Virgin Mobile or LG to be able to tell me how to install an update that's been out and posted on the manufacturers website for over 2 months. When the network is having severe outages across the country, it's going on 10 hours, and VM has a notice on their 800 line and a notice on facebook, I 'd like them to inform customer support and tech support that there is an issue-and not make up voodoo rituals with pulling out batteries and waiting four hours

I don't think expecting a phone carrier to be aware of a software update, and a phone manufacturer to know whether or not, and how, the update they made can be installed on their phone has much to do with ranting or wanting the latest and greatest, and less to do with wanting it for nothing.


I paid for the phone and I pay my monthly bill. I expect VM towers to put out a signal, and I expect the phone to receive it. If the towers don't work, or the phone doesn't work, or an update is provided that doesn't upgrade, I expect VM to be aware of the problem and fix it.

Pretty standard business model- the customer pays a business to provide a product or service.

I can live with the current software issue- it doesn't seem to be big deal. But if LG made an update to the radio that might give me better signal in marginal areas, I'd like to have it.

VM doesn't show much capability for dealing with problems big or small. I'd like them to be successful. I think the Optimus V is a good phone, well worth what I paid, the service plan is far less costly than any other I could get. I want them to be successful so I can stay with them. Their current business methods in customer service make me a bit nervous.

 

[mmarz]

What bug does the current stock rom have that you think an update from LG/VM will fix? Even if it is Gingerbread, what is the stock gingerbread going to give to you that the current stock rom can't?

If GB comes out for our phones, you'll want the rooted custom version put out be LeslieAnn anyways. It makes no difference if we can flash it directly from LG. The only benefit will be for the rom devs working on GB.

 

[zedorda]

I'd just like someone from Virgin Mobile or LG to be able to tell me how to install an update that's been out and posted on the manufacturers website for over 2 months. When the network is having severe outages across the country, it's going on 10 hours, and VM has a notice on their 800 line and a notice on facebook, I 'd like them to inform customer support and tech support that there is an issue-and not make up voodoo rituals with pulling out batteries and waiting four hours

I don't think expecting a phone carrier to be aware of a software update, and a phone manufacturer to know whether or not, and how, the update they made can be installed on their phone has much to do with ranting or wanting the latest and greatest, and less to do with wanting it for nothing.


I paid for the phone and I pay my monthly bill. I expect VM towers to put out a signal, and I expect the phone to receive it. If the towers don't work, or the phone doesn't work, or an update is provided that doesn't upgrade, I expect VM to be aware of the problem and fix it.

Pretty standard business model- the customer pays a business to provide a product or service.

I can live with the current software issue- it doesn't seem to be big deal. But if LG made an update to the radio that might give me better signal in marginal areas, I'd like to have it.

VM doesn't show much capability for dealing with problems big or small. I'd like them to be successful. I think the Optimus V is a good phone, well worth what I paid, the service plan is far less costly than any other I could get. I want them to be successful so I can stay with them. Their current business methods in customer service make me a bit nervous.

Ok to start with you seem to be missing that VM and LG have no reason to supple u with crap concerning the OS ur device uses. It came from goggle as an open source software that LG and/or VM may of added something to but have no responsibility in making sure u gets updated. The fact that OTA update even exist is from the generosity of the service provider. Nothing in VM's service states that any update will be guarantied to you. The only thing you are paying for with ur monthly fee is access to their signal which is only required to be accessible 75% of the time before ur able to demand a refund. The only support VM needs to provide is support for accessing their signal not for updates for the device.

Also Gingerbread will never be released for any other Optimus except the Optimus One.

 

[rwinvt]

To start with, you have a few things confused. The V5 update isn't an OS update, it's a radio update from LG. Regardless of what you, or I, or anyone thinks about their responsibility to offer an an update, LG offered it on their website. If it's now being offered by VM as an OTA update, then it seems VM believes they have a responsibility to offer it- although I have never been able to find anyone at VM Customer service, tech service, or tech service supervisors who has even heard of the update.

I haven't demanded anything from VM. I have asked them if they knew the reason for two extended service outages--whether it was an issue with my phone, or the network, and I have asked them how to get the update that LG had told me was being offered through VM at their corporate stores.

In the case of the service outage- since VM tech knew nothing about an outage, and apparently not much about the phone, they sent a replacement (which I returned, since it was a network issue).

Oddly enough, after checking the last time with LG on the V5 update, this time they said they knew nothing about any problems with the update, knew nothing about VM involvement in the update, decided their was somethingdefective with the phone, and gave me an RA - which I will also decline.

"The only support VM needs to provide is support for accessing their signal..."

I don't know about only, but it would be a good start!

Ok to start with you seem to be missing that VM and LG have no reason to supple u with crap concerning the OS ur device uses. It came from goggle as an open source software that LG and/or VM may of added something to but have no responsibility in making sure u gets updated. The fact that OTA update even exist is from the generosity of the service provider. Nothing in VM's service states that any update will be guarantied to you. The only thing you are paying for with ur monthly fee is access to their signal which is only required to be accessible 75% of the time before ur able to demand a refund. The only support VM needs to provide is support for accessing their signal not for updates for the device.

Also Gingerbread will never be released for any other Optimus except the Optimus One.