Too many lenses - not enough info - Which Lens does what, and when?

[MikeSD]

I love the S24 Ultra. I've been using the S20 Ultra 5G since it came out. But I really never considered phone cameras much of a camera. I don't think any can touch a real camera, for photography. I'm a believer more glass is better. And the better the quality of the glass, the best chance of a good picture. I've been using Canon and Nikon for 50 years. So its a little hard to believe a 1" camera can compete.

That said, I decided to take a closer look at the S24 cameras. The first thing I noticed is I can't figure out which lens does what, and when. Yes, I can tell when a camera is in use. I just block the lens and can tell. HOWEVER, when I tried the 200MP sensor, The bottom lens was being used, until I changed zoom ranges, then one of the other lenses suddenly was in use. That seems to imply a different sensor was in use.

So, is there a table somewhere that identifies which lens is being used, and under that modes? There are 4 lenses, but only 3 choices in the camera for the sensor. Kind of confusing. I mean it's kind of important to know which sensor is in use. Does zoom affect the sensor used? Does portrait vs. normal affect which sensor is chosen? I've never seen any camera where the sensor can change without you knowing what's being used. That seems to be a new concept.

It looks like the top lens is being used at 12MP
And the middle lens at 50MP
But the middle lens is also used at 200, until you switch to portrait, or 5X zoom

It also looks like the sensors are 3 x 4. So you only get max resolution, at 3:4 setting,

What is the smaller lens, in the other column used for?
Are there other modes that will switch lenses and sensors I should know about?
Where is all this documented?

As a photographer, I don't want to depend on software doing something I don't understand. I need to understand how this works. Imagine using a real camera, and the camera suddenly decided it knew better and changed the zoom on you, your changed the sensor on you, without you knowing. AI will NEVER be as smart as a human.

I need to understand which sensor is being used, and when. And there is mention of 10MP but nothing I can do to see how that comes into play. If I do enough testing and look at the meta data, I can probably figure it all out. But why invent the wheel, if the data is already out there.

Thanks in advance

 

[MoreDef]

If you've got the cameras you mentioned, stick to those, as it sounds like you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Regardless of the lingo, jargon and buzzwords companies throw into describing their phone cameras, they're still entirely for casual photography. Yes, there's a "pro mode", but like you said, inevitably, you can't change the size and quality of the lens, which plays a huge part in the quality and ability of the camera. In the end, you're relying on the thing you spent a whole paragraph talking about not wanting to rely on...post processing and software.

Don't get me wrong, given perfect conditions, you can get great shots with the Samsungs (and even better shots under worse conditions with the Pixel series), but if you're wanting to get performance similar to a dedicated camera, you're going to be disappointed.

Edit: I know I technically didn't answer your question, sorry. my reasoning is simply that understanding the cameras won't improve their inherent limitations as tiny lenses when compared to your actual dedicated cameras.

 

[MikeSD]

If you've got the cameras you mentioned, stick to those, as it sounds like you're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Regardless of the lingo, jargon and buzzwords companies throw into describing their phone cameras, they're still entirely for casual photography. Yes, there's a "pro mode", but like you said, inevitably, you can't change the size and quality of the lens, which plays a huge part in the quality and ability of the camera. In the end, you're relying on the thing you spent a whole paragraph talking about not wanting to rely on...post processing and software.

Don't get me wrong, given perfect conditions, you can get great shots with the Samsungs (and even better shots under worse conditions with the Pixel series), but if you're wanting to get performance similar to a dedicated camera, you're going to be disappointed.

Edit: I know I technically didn't answer your question, sorry. my reasoning is simply that understanding the cameras won't improve their inherent limitations as tiny lenses when compared to your actual dedicated cameras.

Thanks for the comments.

First, I'm definitely NOT expecting to get the same performance with a phone than my Canon pro gear. But I don't always have my Canon with me. And something is better than nothing.

Regardless of the lingo, it should be described somewhere. And there is nothing wrong with trying to maximize success, by understanding how a product works.

The one mystery i'm trying to solve is why the camera will suddenly decide to use a different sensor and lens than I set it up to use. That's wierd. For instance if I choose 200MP, which is the bottom lens, why does it jump to the middle lens and sensor, merely because i change zoom setting. I mean I guess that's ok, if it's always at least the same number of sensor pixels, that it would have been on the other sensors, but I won't know that, until I can figure this out. And sensors have different pixel density. Are all the sensors in the S24 the same pixel density and size? If not, that's a relevant thing to know.

Yes, I agree, if I was trying to figure out how to make it behave like my Canon, it's wasted effort. I'm just trying to figure out how it works and what parameters I have control over.

 

[joeldf]

Thanks for the comments.

First, I'm definitely NOT expecting to get the same performance with a phone than my Canon pro gear. But I don't always have my Canon with me. And something is better than nothing.

Regardless of the lingo, it should be described somewhere. And there is nothing wrong with trying to maximize success, by understanding how a product works.

The one mystery i'm trying to solve is why the camera will suddenly decide to use a different sensor and lens than I set it up to use. That's wierd. For instance if I choose 200MP, which is the bottom lens, why does it jump to the middle lens and sensor, merely because i change zoom setting. I mean I guess that's ok, if it's always at least the same number of sensor pixels, that it would have been on the other sensors, but I won't know that, until I can figure this out. And sensors have different pixel density. Are all the sensors in the S24 the same pixel density and size? If not, that's a relevant thing to know.

Yes, I agree, if I was trying to figure out how to make it behave like my Canon, it's wasted effort. I'm just trying to figure out how it works and what parameters I have control over.

I think it has to do with the range each camera has. Within a certain zoom range, one camera is used. Beyond the range of one camera, it'll switch to another one.

I tested that on my last phone, the S20 FE, by hovering my finger over one of the camera as I zoomed, and would watch the fuzzy fingertip disappear after a certain point - when it switched cameras. Then I'd move my finger over to whichever one it showed up on. That told me which one it was.

Now, when it decides to optically zoom as opposed to digitally zoom (cropping in), is something I could never tell. Seems like it always digitally zoomed even if the image resolution was still at its highest.

I currently have the S24 Plus, which I know has a slightly different, but similar setup to the Ultra.

 

[MikeSD]

I think it has to do with the range each camera has. Within a certain zoom range, one camera is used. Beyond the range of one camera, it'll switch to another one.

I tested that on my last phone, the S20 FE, by hovering my finger over one of the camera as I zoomed, and would watch the fuzzy fingertip disappear after a certain point - when it switched cameras. Then I'd move my finger over to whichever one it showed up on. That told me which one it was.

Now, when it decides to optically zoom as opposed to digitally zoom (cropping in), is something I could never tell. Seems like it always digitally zoomed even if the image resolution was still at its highest.

I currently have the S24 Plus, which I know has a slightly different, but similar setup to the Ultra.

One thing I noticed on the S24 Ultra, is when it goes into crop mode vs. optical zoom, it puts a grphic up that shows it's cropping. It displays a large rectangle, with a smaller one inside. So you can tell it's cropping vs just zooming in closer.

 

[joeldf]

One thing I noticed on the S24 Ultra, is when it goes into crop mode vs. optical zoom, it puts a grphic up that shows it's cropping. It displays a large rectangle, with a smaller one inside. So you can tell it's cropping vs just zooming in closer.

You know, I did see that rectangle when I was playing with the camera the other day. Thought that might be what it was doing, but didn't really dig into it much.

I'll pay more attention next time.

 

[MoreDef]

I wish they would specify camera quality. I'm taking pictures using the 4 different modes (full, 3:4, 9:16, 1:1), and some pictures are 7mp, one takes 9mp and one takes 12mp pictures.

 

[Stanley Kubrick]

The one SPEC I never look at when buying any phone is...you guessed it...the camera. Could not care less. When I want to take a picture, (all cell phone cameras have been more than adequate for years now) I open the camera app, center the object in the screen and tap the shutter button. Done! Just like 99.9% of all the other people in the world do!
But I can appreciate that some people want, and deserve, to know how these things work in detail. After all these things are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!
I guess I am more interested in my Home Theater wherein I do know "most" of the details about the equipment I use! I used to be that way about computers...but after 25+ years (and retirement) I don't care too much about that stuff any longer either. All PC's today running the modern OS's do just fine as they are...same as the cameras in cell phones! YMMV

 

[MoreDef]

Yeah, I feel you. Like Ron Popiel says, "just set it and forget it". It's a point and shoot, so point and shoot, and let post-processing worry about it. I think at the very least, we want to know what we're not worrying about.

 

[MikeSD]

When I want to take a picture, (all cell phone cameras have been more than adequate for years now) I open the camera app, center the object in the screen and tap the shutter button. Done! Just like 99.9% of all the other people in the world do!

If you want average photos, I guess that's ok, but the great photos are taken by the other 1%

 

[fuzzylumpkin]

If you want average photos, I guess that's ok, but the great photos are taken by the other 1%

That's the diminishing returns that are garnered by being a hobbyist lol. You can get better quality everything by investing the time into developing skills, but most people don't have infinite time to master everything and good enough is good enough.