What should I get?

[Jobin John]

Nexus 7 - Phones, Tablets, Laptops i found this website offering really cheap prices for nexus 5,7,10, chromebook, smartphones i want to be sure this is the cheapest one out their. Please let me know if their is any other website offering cheaper prices

 

[Haalcyon]

Nexus 7 - Phones, Tablets, Laptops i found this website offering really cheap prices for nexus 5,7,10, chromebook, smartphones i want to be sure this is the cheapest one out their. Please let me know if their is any other website offering cheaper prices

Also consider investigating their return and refund policy. To me that's just as, if not more, important than their price.

G Pad 8.3

 

[yfan]

Yes. You're wrong. I don't mind telling someone who hasn't used or doesn't own the phone that they're wrong when it comes to this. Especially considering you've actually pointed to benchmarks like they matter in this specific discussion.

And your problem is that you think anything that contradicts your conclusion from owning the two devices, including standard benchmark tests, doesn't matter. And even if they don't you assume that everyone's use case is the same as yours. You can speak for your own experience, and that is all. To objectively tell someone they are wrong, your personal experience (or bias) is, frankly, far less relevant than standard benchmark tests and videos showing that you are bluntly wrong, at least in one case.

The Moto X is a fantastic device, and I'm glad it's working out for you. But it doesn't mean your opinion or experience gets to override accepted standards of performance and speed testing, nor does it mean you can substitute your subjective experience for that of everyone else's.

Frankly, I have seen Jeff display no hostility towards the Moto X. Your attitude, on the other hand, is hostile to any claim that seems to contradict your preference.

 

[Adranalyne]

And your problem is that you think anything that contradicts your conclusion from owning the two devices, including standard benchmark tests, doesn't matter. And even if they don't you assume that everyone's use case is the same as yours. You can speak for your own experience, and that is all. To objectively tell someone they are wrong, your personal experience (or bias) is, frankly, far less relevant than standard benchmark tests and videos showing that you are bluntly wrong, at least in one case.

The Moto X is a fantastic device, and I'm glad it's working out for you. But it doesn't mean your opinion or experience gets to override accepted standards of performance and speed testing, nor does it mean you can substitute your subjective experience for that of everyone else's.

Frankly, I have seen Jeff display no hostility towards the Moto X. Your attitude, on the other hand, is hostile to any claim that seems to contradict your preference.

So you agree that a video comparison that showed -one- instance in which the Nexus 5 was slightly faster than the Moto X means that the Nexus 5, as a whole, is significantly faster than the Moto X? I have both phones, having used the X before the Nexus 5, and I've seen nothing from the Nexus 5 that makes me think it's significantly faster than the Moto X. Why? Because it's not. The fact that benchmarks are even brought into this conversation about day to day use is absolutely hysterical.

Do you not think Jerry, who has used both devices and made that video that Jeff keeps referring to, didn't notice that particular instance? Why would he still claim that the Moto X is just as fast, if not faster in some cases, than the Nexus 5 in everyday use? Because it's true. The only reason this is even being argued is because Jeff can't let go of the fact that his phone isn't as great as he wants it to be. I'm using the Nexus 5 right now as we speak and I love it, but I'm realistic about what it brings to the table. Is it the fastest phone I've ever used as a whole? Yes. Is it significantly faster than the Moto X, another phone I own and have used pretty extensively? No, not at all.

 

[Haalcyon]

So you agree that a video comparison that showed -one- instance in which the Nexus 5 was slightly faster than the Moto X means that the Nexus 5, as a whole, is significantly faster than the Moto X? I have both phones, having used the X before the Nexus 5, and I've seen nothing from the Nexus 5 that makes me think it's significantly faster than the Moto X. Why? Because it's not. The fact that benchmarks are even brought into this conversation about day to day use is absolutely hysterical.

Do you not think Jerry, who has used both devices and made that video that Jeff keeps referring to, didn't notice that particular instance? Why would he still claim that the Moto X is just as fast, if not faster in some cases, than the Nexus 5 in everyday use? Because it's true. The only reason this is even being argued is because Jeff can't let go of the fact that his phone isn't as great as he wants it to be. I'm using the Nexus 5 right now as we speak and I love it, but I'm realistic about what it brings to the table. Is it the fastest phone I've ever used as a whole? Yes. Is it significantly faster than the Moto X, another phone I own and have used pretty extensively? No, not at all.

Not to mention that Jerry noted that the Moto X is his preferred device and that the Nexus 5 doesn't change that.

G Pad 8.3

 

[yfan]

So you agree that a video comparison that showed -one- instance in which the Nexus 5 was slightly faster than the Moto X means that the Nexus 5, as a whole, is significantly faster than the Moto X?

You seem to have missed my previous post, in which I pointed out that this "slight" gap actually amounts to the Nexus 5 being TWICE as fast in that specific instance (from the end of the command at 15 secs, it takes the Moto X 6 seconds, exactly TWICE the time to complete the task as it does the Nexus 5, at 3 seconds). If a 100% time differential isn't "significant," we must not have the same dictionaries. That being said, it is also "slight," because really, 3 seconds is still 3 seconds. I made the point that slight and significant aren't always mutually exclusive, a post you seem either not to have read or intent on avoiding.

As to your point that this is just one video, it surely is. But I have yet to see you contradict it with another. After all, if what it's showing isn't the general fact, someone should be able to disprove it, no?

No matter how many times you assert that benchmark tests are irrelevant, they will remain more relevant than the word of one forum member on the corner of the Internet on one forum, even if that member is you. They may not matter to you, but that's the accepted way to measure speed in today's devices that are all fast.

I have both phones, having used the X before the Nexus 5, and I've seen nothing from the Nexus 5 that makes me think it's significantly faster than the Moto X. Why? Because it's not.

... Because it's not, in your specific use case. You are not everybody, and your use case cannot be accepted at face value as the typical or average use case. That's the point I have been trying to make this whole time. It may well be just as fast for you, and for Jerry, but objective testing shows otherwise.

Do you not think Jerry, who has used both devices and made that video that Jeff keeps referring to, didn't notice that particular instance? Why would he still claim that the Moto X is just as fast, if not faster in some cases, than the Nexus 5 in everyday use?

I have no idea, and I'm unwilling to speculate as to his reasons. Frankly, you weren't there while he was testing, so you don't know for sure either. What we DO know is his own video contradicts his claim, in at least one instance. Could that be a fluke? Sure. But if it were, I'd imagine Jerry would be thorough enough to redo the test or perform other "real life" tests and post the videos of those.

I read Jerry's review, and listened to the section of the podcast in which he talked about the comparison. Frankly, I found it lacking in objectivity, cocky, and flatly contradicting the evidence he was himself presenting in many cases, the video under discussion being just one instance. Photos is another - I clearly found the Nexus 5's photos to be superior, whereas Jerry preferred the Moto X ones (and I'm not talking about the HDR shots). But Jerry, like any other mobile site reviewer, will probably be the first to tell that his opinion is subjective. In case of photos, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, for example, and Jerry himself acknowledged that in the podcast.

Again, I have no problem with your assertion that you found the Moto X to be as fast as or faster than the Nexus 5 in your use case. Or that Jerry did. I have a problem with those subjective opinions being substituted for objective fact, despite your assertion that accepted standards of objective measures (like benchmark tests and the video) should be discounted.

Not to mention that Jerry noted that the Moto X is his preferred device and that the Nexus 5 doesn't change that.

Keyword: HIS. His preferred device. That doesn't tell us anything at all about whether it's fast or slow. It just tells us Jerry prefers a given device. That's fantastic. But I'm unaware of exactly when it was that "Jerry's preferred device" became the accepted standard for "faster device."

 

[Haalcyon]

You seem to have missed my previous post, in which I pointed out that this "slight" gap actually amounts to the Nexus 5 being TWICE as fast in that specific instance (from the end of the command at 15 secs, it takes the Moto X 6 seconds, exactly TWICE the time to complete the task as it does the Nexus 5, at 3 seconds). If a 100% time differential isn't "significant," we must not have the same dictionaries. That being said, it is also "slight," because really, 3 seconds is still 3 seconds. I made the point that slight and significant aren't always mutually exclusive, a post you seem either not to have read or intent on avoiding.

As to your point that this is just one video, it surely is. But I have yet to see you contradict it with another. After all, if what it's showing isn't the general fact, someone should be able to disprove it, no?

No matter how many times you assert that benchmark tests are irrelevant, they will remain more relevant than the word of one forum member on the corner of the Internet on one forum, even if that member is you. They may not matter to you, but that's the accepted way to measure speed in today's devices that are all fast.


... Because it's not, in your specific use case. You are not everybody, and your use case cannot be accepted at face value as the typical or average use case. That's the point I have been trying to make this whole time. It may well be just as fast for you, and for Jerry, but objective testing shows otherwise.


I have no idea, and I'm unwilling to speculate as to his reasons. Frankly, you weren't there while he was testing, so you don't know for sure either. What we DO know is his own video contradicts his claim, in at least one instance. Could that be a fluke? Sure. But if it were, I'd imagine Jerry would be thorough enough to redo the test or perform other "real life" tests and post the videos of those.

I read Jerry's review, and listened to the section of the podcast in which he talked about the comparison. Frankly, I found it lacking in objectivity, cocky, and flatly contradicting the evidence he was himself presenting in many cases, the video under discussion being just one instance. Photos is another - I clearly found the Nexus 5's photos to be superior, whereas Jerry preferred the Moto X ones (and I'm not talking about the HDR shots). But Jerry, like any other mobile site reviewer, will probably be the first to tell that his opinion is subjective. In case of photos, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, for example, and Jerry himself acknowledged that in the podcast.

Again, I have no problem with your assertion that you found the Moto X to be as fast as or faster than the Nexus 5 in your use case. Or that Jerry did. I have a problem with those subjective opinions being substituted for objective fact, despite your assertion that accepted standards of objective measures (like benchmark tests and the video) should be discounted.


Keyword: HIS. His preferred device. That doesn't tell us anything at all about whether it's fast or slow. It just tells us Jerry prefers a given device. That's fantastic. But I'm unaware of exactly when it was that "Jerry's preferred device" became the accepted standard for "faster device."

Let's face it, Jerry and Co. get a lot more phones than a lot of us. Some of us put stock in Jerry's opinion the same way some of us put stock in a car magazine writer's opinion and for the same reason. They have experiences that we may not have or get to have with a product we're interested in. Jerry may not even prefer the "fastest" device. I like my phones fast, my ladies? Not so much.

I will say this. When Jerry says a phone is his preferred device that's not irrelevant to me. He deals with a lot more of these things than I likely will.

G Pad 8.3

 

[JeffDenver]

Not to mention that Jerry noted that the Moto X is his preferred device and that the Nexus 5 doesn't change that.

It sure doesn't. But the fact that he prefers it is not evidence the Nexus 5 is not better in some or most areas.

The always on feature is a good example, and was the whole point of his video. He was obviously impressed by that functionality (and rightly so...so am I). But that has nothing to do with performance. It's a feature.

"Best" is relative to how you use it. For me it is a neat feature but not something I really need. For him it is obviously a lot more important. There are plenty of other examples of this...IR, Barometers, stereo Speakers. For someone who uses the speakerphone a lot, stereo speakers might be a big deal too. The fact that Jerry likes the phone is not evidence it is better.

 

[CR6]

Hopefully the OP got the information he needed early on, cause the thread has clearly [removed picture of a train] derailed.
:what:
tap'n

 

[Haalcyon]

Hopefully the OP got the information he needed early on, cause the thread has clearly
:what:
tap'n

I think the OP grabbed his chute and bailed a long long time ago. I thank him for giving birth to the thread though. No really. In fact, what's this thread supposed to be about? It's late-ish. You can't expect us to keep up with what the OP really wanted to know about at this stage in the game can ya?

G Pad 8.3

 

[yfan]

Let's face it, Jerry and Co. get a lot more phones than a lot of us.

Which is precisely the reason that Jerry's use case is NOT the typical use case. The typical user doesn't have 9 different phones laying on their desk at any given time. The typical user isn't trying to switch between devices and writing reviews. The typical user uses one device over time, for a year or more. Simply put, Jerry doesn't have the luxury to test out the typical use case over a period of time, except on his daily driver, in this case the Moto X. That he is doing a comparison between his daily driver and another phone by itself makes the review biased.

Some of us put stock in Jerry's opinion the same way some of us put stock in a car magazine writer's opinion and for the same reason. They have experiences that we may not have or get to have with a product we're interested in.

And I have no problem with you doing that. But if a car magazine writer compared a model to a car she or he drives and owns, I would get a second opinion from someone who doesn't drive either vehicle on a regular basis to get a more objective take.

Jerry may not even prefer the "fastest" device.

My point exactly.

When Jerry says a phone is his preferred device that's not irrelevant to me.

No one is saying it should be irrelevant. But it's not beyond reproach.

 

[Haalcyon]

Of course its not beyond reproach.

G2

 

[CR6]

And I have no problem with you doing that. But if a car magazine writer compared a model to a car she or he drives and owns, I would get a second opinion from someone who doesn't drive either vehicle on a regular basis to get a more objective take.
.

No disrespect, but if you're using this analogy to buy ANYTHING, I have to assume you're a teenager and don't have much experience buying, well.... anything. You WANT the opinion from someone who has spent time with an item, (whether it's a phone OR a car) not simply taken it for a "test drive".

tap'n

 

[yfan]

No disrespect, but if you're using this analogy to buy ANYTHING, I have to assume you're a teenager and don't have much experience buying, well.... anything. You WANT the opinion from someone who has spent time with an item, (whether it's a phone OR a car) not simply taken it for a "test drive".

I love how you follow up your "No disrespect" with disrespectful namecalling.

Be that as it may, I will try to explain my point to you. The problem isn't experience, it is frame of reference. For a reviewer to be objective in comparing two models of something (car, phone, whatever), the reviewer him or herself must be similarly situated with respect to both products, using them in similar manner. You certainly want a reviewer to spend time with a product if you are talking about just a review, but for comparison, the reviewer has to be similarly situated, i.e. they cannot have a great deal more or less experience with one product than another. If they are going to spend time, they must spend similar amounts of time with both products. If they are going to use one as a daily driver, they must also use the other product as a daily driver, and for the same amount of time. Jerry has clearly used the Moto X as a daily driver for longer than he has the Nexus 5. You cannot count a comparison as objective if the reviewer uses one of the products as his daily driver and used the other, as you aptly put it, in merely "test drive" mode.

That's the rub. Because a reviewer who reviews dozens of different phones (or cars) every year cannot possibly spend a great deal of time with each as daily drivers (and because reviews/comparisons need to be posted within a time frame that may not even allow the opportunity for equal in-depth experience), the reviewer should be equally inexperienced with both devices (or vehicles) if they cannot be equally experienced. Otherwise, the comparison is being made from different frames of reference, and therefore violates the first criterion of being objective. That is why reviewers should not professionally compare their daily driver with a product that hasn't served as a their daily driver for the same amount of time.

 

[Haalcyon]

No disrespect, but if you're using this analogy to buy ANYTHING, I have to assume you're a teenager and don't have much experience buying, well.... anything. You WANT the opinion from someone who has spent time with an item, (whether it's a phone OR a car) not simply taken it for a "test drive".

tap'n

I want both. The opinion of the experts and the test drive. Both have value. A test drive alone isn't enough for me to know how a car performs on a skidpad or from 0-60mph or through the slalom. I want an expert opinion on these things but I do respect that you don't.


Nexuscillin V

 

[Aquila]

For the most part this is an amusing discussion, but I do want to remind everyone to please keep discussion productive and about the topics, rather than the people you're debating against. It's a really easy line to cross and lets avoid doing that.

On a side note... if in 100,000 tests on the same task the Nexus was faster than the X by an average of .8 seconds 55% of the time and the X was faster than the Nexus by an average of 1.2 seconds, 40% of the time and 5% of the time, they were dead tied... which is faster at that task? What if on another task the numbers were exactly reversed? Now which is the objectively faster device ?

 

[Adranalyne]

For the most part this is an amusing discussion, but I do want to remind everyone to please keep discussion productive and about the topics, rather than the people you're debating against. It's a really easy line to cross and lets avoid doing that.

On a side note... if in 100,000 tests on the same task the Nexus was faster than the X by an average of .8 seconds 55% of the time and the X was faster than the Nexus by an average of 1.2 seconds, 40% of the time and 5% of the time, they were dead tied... which is faster at that task? What if on another task the numbers were exactly reversed? Now which is the objectively faster device ?

Well apparently if one video shows one instance in which one phone is faster, it's automatically significantly faster overall, regardless of the fact that the author stated explicitly that it isn't. It also doesn't help when they haven't used the device, either, and draw their conclusions based on a video they've seen. There's a reason I don't comment on the LG G2; it's one of the few phones I haven't used or owned. So yes, it's very amusing, but not something uncommon considering this is the Nexus 5 part of the forums.

 

[JeffDenver]

On a side note... if in 100,000 tests on the same task the Nexus was faster than the X by an average of .8 seconds 55% of the time and the X was faster than the Nexus by an average of 1.2 seconds, 40% of the time and 5% of the time, they were dead tied... which is faster at that task? What if on another task the numbers were exactly reversed? Now which is the objectively faster device ?

I guess we would have to see examples of those tasks before we could determine that, right? So far the only actual demonstration I have seen is Google Now, and the Nexus demolished the X in it.

I have not seen an example of the X being faster at anything. So it is faster 0% of the time. Granted, this does not always matter. Jerry's video showed that the X was more versatile (being able to take commands while "off"), and that is definitely very neat. But that is not an example of it doing stuff faster.

 

[Jeremy8000]

Nexus 7 - Phones, Tablets, Laptops i found this website offering really cheap prices for nexus 5,7,10, chromebook, smartphones i want to be sure this is the cheapest one out their. Please let me know if their is any other website offering cheaper prices

CAVEAT EMPTOR

You should be very skeptical of the legitimacy/safety of dealing with any site offering new Nexus product for less than what Google is asking, and doubly so when they only accept orders by telephone, and triply so when you add the fact that that site was created less than 2 weeks ago (11/7/13). If those aren't enough reasons for caution, the site is registered to a "Joe Delivery" (seriously?) at a street address in NY that doesn't exist.

Now I'm not saying it couldn't be legit, but as the saying goes, if it seems too good to be true...

Also, you currently have exactly 3 posts all on the forums, all offering up this new website. Just sayin'....

 

[UJ95x]

CAVEAT EMPTOR

You should be very skeptical of the legitimacy/safety of dealing with any site offering new Nexus product for less than what Google is asking, and doubly so when they only accept orders by telephone, and triply so when you add the fact that that site was created less than 2 weeks ago (11/7/13). If those aren't enough reasons for caution, the site is registered to a "Joe Delivery" (seriously?) at a street address in NY that doesn't exist.

Now I'm not saying it couldn't be legit, but as the saying goes, if it seems too good to be true...

Also, you currently have exactly 3 posts all on the forums, all offering up this new website. Just sayin'....

Probably just spam. Can't have a more fishy site than that

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