Why do (Android) phones need so many cores?

[LegalAmerican]

C'mon, man. The Lemur is not what we are discussing here. The other examples are touchscreens. I'm referring to multi-touch displays meaning using more than one finger touching the display like the most basic pinch to zoom that most, if not all, smartphones use now.

Clearly you adjust the details when someone proves you to be inaccurate. "I was referring to multi-touch displays on iPhones that have an apple logo on the back and were designed by Steve Jobs! Show me any other company that invented THAT before Apple!"

 

[Haalcyon]

In the end what is gained, here, by proving android copied iOS or vice versa? Neither is going to be straight-out irrevocably proven, the discussion is an endless loop. For the sake of it, though, supposes I say Apple flat-out copied Android with iOS. ...that Android is the victim of straight theft from iOS. What have we gained here?


via the tablet

 

[xchange]

Simply put, there are a lot more powerful features and capabilities in the Android OS in comparison to more trimmed down OS's like iOS and WP. This requires extra horsepower.

 

[Haalcyon]

Simply put, there are a lot more powerful features and capabilities in the Android OS in comparison to more trimmed down OS's like iOS and WP. This requires extra horsepower.

I know you're not talking about the capabilities installed by the OEMs and carriers that some may indeed call bloatware. What capabilities, is it, that require this extra horsepower? I'm not doubting it it's just edifying to read the different takes on this.


via the tablet

 

[JeffDenver]

In the end what is gained, here, by proving android copied iOS or vice versa?

Yes. Because it will prevent iOS people from bringing up the "OMG Android is a copycat" argument ever again. It is gratifying to me that Apple is finally being called out on this stuff after so many years. Better late than never.

Apple does not even appear to be denying it anymore. Now they just say it doesn't matter...which is what Android people have been saying since the beginning.

Neither is going to be straight-out irrevocably proven, the discussion is an endless loop.

I disagree...it has been conclusively proven. Even pro-Apple people have accepted it now. Apple did copy. Now instead of denying it they just say "so what, everyone copies". Which is still progress IMO.

For the sake of it, though, supposes I say Apple flat-out copied Android with iOS. ...that Android is the victim of straight theft from iOS. What have we gained here?

Not having to listen to Apple people complain about Android being a copycat. That is what we have gained.

 

[jackadillo]

I don't think Android necessarily needs so many cores. I think a better question is why Androids tend to in general have mediocre battery life and why more of them aren't optimized like the Moto X (yes, I know a good part of the reason is the new filing system, a subject for another day).

That's not to say I hate Android. I actually like it a lot. I like how it's come a long way to becoming the polished OS it is today. It's not nearly as laggy and TRIM support has been a godsend. Battery life still could use some work. That's the final frontier Android needs to tackle and I'll give it a two thumbs up instead of 1 1/2.

 

[JeffDenver]

I don't think Android necessarily needs so many cores. I think a better question is why Androids tend to in general have mediocre battery life and why more of them aren't optimized like the Moto X (yes, I know a good part of the reason is the new filing system, a subject for another day).

I think this is a good example of how stuff does not necessarily need to be built well. If you can just spam cheap hardware to get the same (or better) result, then what is the downside?

All else being equal, higher quality matters of course. But it is not the be-all end-all that a lot of people think it is. Even Apple makes compromises on quality.

 

[Haalcyon]

Not having to listen to Apple people complain about Android being a copycat. That is what we have gained.

View attachment 108587

There's too many misguided apple fanpeople, you are still going to hear that, even so, so what? I think it only matters in forum debates that are largely unimportant, but entertaining, yes. I don't think folks are basing purchasing decisions off of who copied who and I'd hate for you to waste too much time trying to dispell what is largely unimportant spouted by the misinformed. Again, I realize we're the enthusiast types but I THINK most people just couldn't care less.


via the tablet

 

[pappy53]

It sure cost Samesung close to a billion dollars to not copy Apple.

 

[garublador]

I disagree. There horizons have just changed...it will no longer be as much about CPU and RAM and display...now it will be camera and storage. There is LOTS of room for improvement on cameras especially (I want perfect lowlight photos and video, at high resolutions and 60fps and I want optical zoom). And storage will never be sufficient until we can store the same data on our phones as on our PCs (meaning media...photos, music, videos). Right now the very high end is 150gigs or so, and that is expensive. It needs to be so cheap it is commonplace, like 1080p is now for displays.

There is room for growth on the gaming front too, which is mostly GPUs and software:

Unity 5 Feature Preview - YouTube

I agree that the core tech is mature. But the hardware wars are far from over. And that is not good news for Apple.

First, I agree that exactly where we are on the s-curve is very much up for debate.

I'm saying that all those improvements you're talking about are just incremental improvements on existing features. Those are the sort of improvements you see when you're near the end of the curve. It's lots of effort/cost for little actual improvement. There aren't really many, if any, big jumps left that will make older phones obsolete. There will have to be some big change in form factor or how we use smart phones (e.g. Google Glass or some other "wearable" technology) that "jumps curves" for us to see any "revolutionary" improvement.

For anyone interested, here's a blog post that talks a bit about jumping curves:

The S-curve for Apple is flattening - Bearing Consulting

It's a bit of an abstract concept that can apply to many different things. If your company makes something that gets to the top, flat part of the curve you have to either find a way to "jump curves" or you risk another company doing that and making your product obsolete. Apple has been called "revolutionary" because they're able to jump curves consistently, even if they weren't the first to introduce most of the technologies they use. That's a very impressive thing to be able to do.

 

[JeffDenver]

There's too many misguided apple fanpeople, you are still going to hear that

I disagree. In the same way that we no longer see them claiming Android will never surpass Apple in marketshare. Eventually the facts will become so commonplace and obvious that they will finally shut up about it.

 

[rrballer11]

Apple is able to introduce some features first because people are willing to spend more money on Apple products than they are on other products. They don't have to hit a lower price point like other OEM's, so they can put more expensive technologies in their products earlier. Most of their hardware advancements have been stuff that almost certainly would have happened, anyway, but they were able to afford it first.

I'm surprised that I haven't heard (or I missed) Apple's most recent advancement that actually was revolutionary, the iTunes/App store. IMO, that's the real reason smart phones took off. Anyone who tried to use a PDA before the App Store/Google Play can probably attest to how crappy it was to find and install software on a mobile device.

Apple doesnt invent, they take old ideas and welcome them back better. all iphones are the same.

 

[rrballer11]

Yes. Because it will prevent iOS people from bringing up the "OMG Android is a copycat" argument ever again. It is gratifying to me that Apple is finally being called out on this stuff after so many years. Better late than never.

Apple does not even appear to be denying it anymore. Now they just say it doesn't matter...which is what Android people have been saying since the beginning.


I disagree...it has been conclusively proven. Even pro-Apple people have accepted it now. Apple did copy. Now instead of denying it they just say "so what, everyone copies". Which is still progress IMO.


Not having to listen to Apple people complain about Android being a copycat. That is what we have gained.

View attachment 108587

At the end of the day... Apple fanboys will still say andriod copied and when a NEW feature comes out on the IPhones that has BEEN on andriod for years.... Apple users wont even notice and THING its a NEW feature LOL....

 

[xchange]

I know you're not talking about the capabilities installed by the OEMs and carriers that some may indeed call bloatware. What capabilities, is it, that require this extra horsepower? I'm not doubting it it's just edifying to read the different takes on this.


via the tablet

If I had said that it would've been in the post, so you're correct in saying I wasn't talking about that.

What capabilities? I'm not really sure I want to go into a lengthy explanation of the system wide extra functions android offers that others don't on a smartphone enthusiast forum, way too much effort and most people here are well aware of them already anyway

 

[Haalcyon]

Short answer: okay.


via the phone

 

[pappy53]

Yes. Because it will prevent iOS people from bringing up the "OMG Android is a copycat" argument ever again. It is gratifying to me that Apple is finally being called out on this stuff after so many years. Better late than never.

Apple does not even appear to be denying it anymore. Now they just say it doesn't matter...which is what Android people have been saying since the beginning.


I disagree...it has been conclusively proven. Even pro-Apple people have accepted it now. Apple did copy. Now instead of denying it they just say "so what, everyone copies". Which is still progress IMO.


Not having to listen to Apple people complain about Android being a copycat. That is what we have gained.

View attachment 108587

Jobs was right. Android was ready to be released on a Blackberry-esque style, and then the iPhone was introduced. Android was immediately taken back to the drawing board, and basically copied the iPhone before being released. I think that Eric Schmidt was responsible for that, but not sure.

 

[Haalcyon]

Well, in all fairness apple has 'retaliated' with a fair share of copying too. We, the customers, win.


via the phone

 

[pappy53]

Well, in all fairness apple has 'retaliated' with a fair share of copying too. We, the customers, win.


via the phone

Agreed.

 

[xchange]

Short answer: okay.


via the phone

Your brevity is appreciated

 

[Geodude074]

It does, but the context of the discussion is that beyond a certain point, the additional cores provide only very marginal benefit, or may even hinder the phone from working as well as it should.

The future of software is multithreaded. Current software that was optimized for single threaded work will become obsolete, and providing hardware that has single cores will hold back progress. More cores and more threads = faster, better.

I am willing to bet that the majority of android phone users aren't doing anything that require more than 2 processor cores, and that they may be better off using a dual core processor with faster clock speeds.

The majority of smart phone users in general would be better off with a dumb phone, so that makes your argument irrelevant.

That would be an argument for faster cores, not more cores. If anything, since more cores produce more heat, they would have a lower speed to reduce the heat generated, which probably explains why 2 cores can be faster than 4 cores in many scenarios.

You actually have it backwards. Faster cores = more heat, more cores = less heat. Although heat in general has many determining factors and cannot be simplified as such. But anytime you increase the clockspeed of a chip, you have to raise the voltage, and more voltage equals more heat. Anybody who’s ever overclocked anything can attest to this.

Oh, and give me ONE scenario where a dual-core is faster than a quad-core FROM THE SAME ARCHITECTURE.