Why do (Android) phones need so many cores?

[JeffDenver]

Won't 4 cores run 8 ongoing apps better/smoother than 2 cores will or do I have my facts mixed up again (I often do)?

Not necessarily...if the dual core is fast enough, or specialized enough (integrated with the OS in specialized ways), it will appear just as quick to the end user.

But it is probably going to be cheaper and easier to add more cores than to engineer a super dual-core chip.

All else being equal, more cores is better. But all else is rarely equal...there is a dramatic difference between the best and worst dual-core chips. There are a lot more variables than just number of cores and clock speed.

 

[Haalcyon]

You are going to have to be more explicit than just "multitask a lot", since I profess to have little experience with android in general.

Could you provide an example of a typical use scenario where the user multi-tasks frequently / heavily on his android phone, and how this is better served with 4 cores compared to 2?

Thanks in advance.

With android apps are left running in the background, doing and molesting whatever they need to to make themselves (and the user) happy. Add all of that to a very very very very very very very heave UI like TouchWiz and you can quickly begin to see where extra cores may come in rather handy. This is why when I put my son's G Pad 8.3 to rest I clear all the tasks. I learned that with them working those 4 cores in the background the battery life drained quite a bit faster than if I shut them down.


via the tablet

 

[pappy53]

...and your Nexus 5 has a UI that I have to mess, replace launchers and such, to tolerate. It also has a camera that I don't care for as much. Your Nexus 5 is great bang for the buck but I like the out-of-the-box experience of the iPhone and the iPhone's camera quite a bit better.


via the tablet

Amen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[garublador]

Perhaps this was already mentioned and I missed it, but it's worth mentioning there's a chicken and the egg thing that happens between software and hardware. You need software to take advantage of multicore systems for them to be useful, but you need multicore systems before you can optimize your software. So what happens is the hardware is usually released ahead of the software so there will be a time when there isn't much of an advantage. That doesn't mean there won't ever be an advantage, just that you don't see it right away. With how fast people turn over phones there's a chance that the first phones with some types of new hardware won't see the advantage. That doesn't mean those hardware features aren't useful, it's just that they aren't as directly useful to the people using them. Saying that because it isn't immediately optimized, then it's useless is missing the big picture.

It's like with video game consoles how the first games that come out are no where near the technical quality of the games that come out after a few years. It takes software developers time to really optimize their code to get the most out of the hardware. Only in the smartphone case it's over the life of several generations of devices rather than just one device.

 

[JeffDenver]

...and your Nexus 5 has a UI that I have to mess, replace launchers and such

No you don't. You could install a launcher that makes it behave exactly like iOS. You could even just put all your app drawer icons on the desktop if you wanted. Or just have a blank desktop and use nothing but the app drawer.

You don't HAVE to do anything with Android. The only thing you would not get is the peripherals and iOS apps. As far as functionality, there is not a single thing iOS can do that Android cannot also do. The reverse is not true.

You did not mention the camera before, just how liquidy smooth it is. Well, the nexus can give you that as well.

And the iPhone camera's quality is not the be-all end-all IMO. Top image is the iPhone 5s...bottom is Nexus 5.

 

[abazigal]

With android apps are left running in the background, doing and molesting whatever they need to to make themselves (and the user) happy. Add all of that to a very very very very very very very heave UI like TouchWiz and you can quickly begin to see where extra cores may come in rather handy.

via the tablet

That bad?

The other poster was talking about his nexus phone, which runs stock android, a much slimmer and more efficient OS from what I have heard.

 

[JeffDenver]

He still was right. Android was a pretty blatant copy.

Even if it is, iOS is at least as blatent a copy. Therefore iOS complainers are not in a position to complain.

 

[Haalcyon]

No you don't. You could install a launcher that makes it behave exactly like iOS. You could even just put all your app drawer icons on the desktop if you wanted. Or just have a blank desktop and use nothing but the app drawer.

You don't HAVE to do anything with Android. The only thing you would not get is the peripherals and iOS apps. As far as functionality, there is not a single thing iOS can do that Android cannot also do. The reverse is not true.

You did not mention the camera before, just how liquidy smooth it is. Well, the nexus can give you that as well.

And the iPhone camera's quality is not the be-all end-all IMO. Top image is the iPhone 5s...bottom is Nexus 5.

http://forums.androidcentral.com/at...5-camera-photos-videos-thoughts-full-crop.jpg

Why would I want to make an Android phone work like an iPhone when I could just have an iPhone? I didn't say the iPhone's camera was the best of the best of the best, I said I like it better than the Nexus 5's. I've had both, YMMV. I'm sure you can take a photo that looks better on the Nexus 5 than you can take on the iPhone 5s, but most of the time, MOST of the time, I'm going to prefer the 5s results and I'm sure if I'm doing the shooting I could pick them out, especially in low-light.


I don't want to get in trouble for derailing the thread so I'm going to leave it at that. Cores, we were discussing CPU cores.

via the tablet

 

[JeffDenver]

You are going to have to be more explicit than just "multitask a lot"

It's exactly what it sounds like. Running multiple apps at the same time. for example, web browsing while running music in the background, while having a bit torrent client running also.

I do not mean pausing one app and starting another and then starting another. I am talking about them both running at once.

And like I said, you could do this with dual core as well. Assuming it is fast enough. But it will be cheaper and easier with additional cores. All else being equal, more cores gives you more flexibility...even Apple believes this, which is why the iPhone 5s does not use a single core chip.

 

[Geodude074]

You are going to have to be more explicit than just "multitask a lot", since I profess to have little experience with android in general.

Could you provide an example of a typical use scenario where the user multi-tasks frequently / heavily on his android phone, and how this is better served with 4 cores compared to 2?

Thanks in advance.

I'll give you a scenario.

User has 1) Skype open so he can talk to his friends. 2) Facebook open so he can message his Facebook friends. 3) Music playing in the background. 4) A web browser open so he can browse the web. 5) A download running in the background. All of these apps open and running at the same time on the same screen on a tablet like the Samsung Galaxy Note, for example.

Now explain to me how a dual core would be better in this scenario. And be specific, since I'm not all too familiar with iOS.

 

[Haalcyon]

It's exactly what it sounds like. Running multiple apps at the same time. for example, web browsing while running music in the background, while having a bit torrent client running also.

I do not mean pausing one app and starting another and then starting another. I am talking about them both running at once.

And like I said, you could do this with dual core as well. Assuming it is fast enough. But it will be cheaper and easier with additional cores. All else being equal, more cores gives you more flexibility...even Apple believes this, which is why the iPhone 5s does not use a single core chip.

Assuming it is fast enough. ...and that's a big assumption as a dual CPU is going to have to time-slice a bit more. For multi-tasking it may be cheaper to throw an off-the-shelf quad-core at it than voodoo up a hyper dual-core, just as you noted.


via the tablet

 

[JeffDenver]

Why would I want to make an Android phone work like an iPhone when I could just have an iPhone?

Because it costs half as much? Because it has a higher res display? Because it allows you the option of expanding in the future if you want to? Because you will be less restricted on what you can view and install with it?

A better question is, why would you pay Apple to offer you fewer options?

I didn't say the iPhone's camera was the best of the best of the best, I said I like it better than the Nexus 5's.

Apparently not in every way, according to the sample I posted above.

I've had both, YMMV. I'm sure you can take a photo that looks better on the Nexus 5 than you can take on the iPhone 5s, but most of the time, MOST of the time, I'm going to prefer the 5s results and I'm sure if I'm doing the shooting I could pick them out, especially in low-light.

If you have some comparisons, I'd be happy to look at them. I already provided an example to support my opinion.

 

[Haalcyon]

Because it costs half as much? Because it has a higher res display? Because it allows you the option of expanding in the future if you want to? Because you will be less restricted on what you can view and install with it?

A better question is, why would you pay Apple to offer you fewer options?


Apparently not in every way, according to the sample I posted above.



If you have some comparisons, I'd be happy to look at them. I already provided an example to support my opinion.

2 cents versus 5 cents. I have no problem spending 5 cents. How much of an impact something costs is subjective. Cars, I'll use them in analogy again. I don't want a Ford Taurus, even though it's larger. I'll take the Acura TSX. ...that's just me. I don't want to always carry around a 5" phone. I learned that. How is the Nexus 5 going to allow me to expand in the future in such a way that is relevant to me that the iPhone will not? My iPhone does not restrict me at all. If it did, I'd have, say, a Nexus 5 or G2 or Note 3 or S4 or Optimus G Pro or any of the other Android phones I've recently had but no longer want. Why would I pay Apple more. I love the design of the iPhone, and I love iOS7 out-of-the-box. I love the Apple app ecosystem and accessory ecosystem. I love that the iPhone is just a smaller version of my Retina iPad Mini, that is just a smaller version of my iPad Air and that they all works the same. I love the way the hardware is crafted and how well the OS works with the hardware. These are why I chose iOS after trying so many Android options like the phones listed above and numerous tablets. I like iOS's simplicity out of the box. I don't have to work it make it simple, it just is. That's not better for everyone but its what I like.

I no longer have a Nexus 5 so I can't do comparisons now, I can recall not liking its low-light shots of my 4-year-old very much. I love my iPhone's ability to capture him.

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[JeffDenver]

How is the Nexus 5 going to allow me to expand in the future in such a way that is relevant to me that the iPhone will not?

What are you doing on the iPhone that is worth spending twice as much? It's obviously not the smoothness....is the camera the only reason?

Your argument seems to be "I know it is more restricted and I can do less but I don't care". Which is fine. But why pay more for that?

I love the design of the iPhone

And this is what it comes down to...looks. You are willing to pay twice as much because of the way the case looks. Not for what it actually does.

And you're not alone. I think a lot of iOS users are the same way.

 

[Geodude074]

2 cents versus 5 cents. I have no problem spending 5 cents. How much of an impact something costs is subjective. Cars, I'll use them in analogy again. I don't want a Ford Taurus, even though it's larger. I'll take the Acura TSX. ...that's just me. I don't want to always carry around a 5" phone. I learned that. How is the Nexus 5 going to allow me to expand in the future in such a way that is relevant to me that the iPhone will not? My iPhone does not restrict me at all. If it did, I'd have, say, a Nexus 5 or G2 or Note 3 or S4 or Optimus G Pro or any of the other Android phones I've recently had but no longer want. Why would I pay Apple more. I love the design of the iPhone, and I love iOS7 out-of-the-box. I love the Apple app ecosystem and accessory ecosystem. I love that the iPhone is just a smaller version of my Retina iPad Mini, that is just a smaller version of my iPad Air and that they all works the same. I love the way the hardware is crafted and how well the OS works with the hardware. These are why I chose iOS after trying so many Android options like the phones listed above and numerous tablets. I like iOS's simplicity out of the box. I don't have to work it make it simple, it just is. That's not better for everyone but its what I like.

I no longer have a Nexus 5 so I can't do comparisons now, I can recall not liking its low-light shots of my 4-year-old very much. I love my iPhone's ability to capture him.

via the tablet

All I'm hearing is "Yes, even though my iPhone has less features and costs twice as much, I personally prefer it that way because I enjoy paying more for less."

 

[abazigal]

I'll give you a scenario.

User has 1) Skype open so he can talk to his friends. 2) Facebook open so he can message his Facebook friends. 3) Music playing in the background. 4) A web browser open so he can browse the web. 5) A download running in the background. All of these apps open and running at the same time on the same screen on a tablet like the Samsung Galaxy Note, for example.

Now explain to me how a dual core would be better in this scenario. And be specific, since I'm not all too familiar with iOS.

Okay, I will assume that there are apparently people with the attention span of a butterfly with ADHD, and are indeed chatting / messaging with multiple people concurrently while listening to music in the background. I personally would not be able to focus on so many activities at the same time.

Second, I believe we are talking about smartphones, not tablets.

Third, why do those apps need to be open at the same time? That's what push notifications are for.

So my point is that for what most people need to do on their phones, dual core suffices, while delivering better performance and battery life, like what the moto x has shown.

 

[abazigal]

All I'm hearing is "Yes, even though my iPhone has less features and costs twice as much, I personally prefer it that way because I enjoy paying more for less."

You are right in a sense. We are paying more for less. Fewer problems and issues overall, and the promise of an integrated solution which just works right out of the box. I am pay more upfront, but I can expect a more polished, hassle-free and streamlined computing experience, and in the long run, I don't expect to be any worse off.

At least, that has been my general experience with all the apple products I own ( and I do have quite a number of them).

More isn't always better or more desirable, especially when it is not more of what people want, but more that they need to contend with.

For me at least, complexity is not a key selling point which appeals to me. Simplicity is. And I willingly pay for it.

 

[JeffDenver]

Okay, I will assume that there are apparently people with the attention span of a butterfly with ADHD, and are indeed chatting / messaging with multiple people concurrently while listening to music in the background.

You would be surprised. And it is not just young people.

If I am waiting on the computer to do something, it means the computer is too slow. I should never be able to think faster than the computer. It should always be waiting on me, not the other way around.

Second, I believe we are talking about smartphones, not tablets.

This applies to both.

Third, why do those apps need to be open at the same time?

Because launching them causes a delay. Any app that is always in memory will always launch dramatically quicker than if you have to load it from storage. Even native apps like iOS has.

So my point is that for what most people need to do on their phones, dual core suffices

You could make that argument. But "good enough" is not the same as "great". And why would you pay twice as much for "good enough" if you could have "great" for the half the price?

There is no reason to settle unless you have to, I think that is our point. Having less features and fewer capabilities is not an asset. It's not a good thing.

 

[Haalcyon]

What are you doing on the iPhone that is worth spending twice as much? It's obviously not the smoothness....is the camera the only reason?

Your argument seems to be "I know it is more restricted and I can do less but I don't care". Which is fine. But why pay more for that?


And this is what it comes down to...looks. You are willing to pay twice as much because of the way the case looks. Not for what it actually does.

And you're not alone. I think a lot of iOS users are the same way.

No, Jeff, you're discounting that I PREFER the way iOS works. That may be irrelevant to you, but that doesn't mean its irrelevant to me. I PREFER the way iOS works. ...its simplicity, for instance, I PREFER that I don't have to find and configure a launcher to make it work the way I want it to. I PREFER that. I PREFER the Apple app ecosystem and the superior quality in the apps I use. I prefer my ability to more-easily and conveniently find and acquire accessories for my iGadgets than I'll ever be able to for a Nexus device (there are still mall kiosks that don't have Nexus 5 accessories, grumble grumble). These are the reasons I'm willing to pay more for a 5s than a Nexus 5. Those may not be good reasons to you, but in all fairness, do they need to be? If I had to choose between the two phones I would pay for the 5s every time for the exact reasons I did. Now, it'd be different if I never had any android device, but to the contrary, I've had more than android phones in the past 2 years than many, so I think I can recognize what I prefer and why. You'll never see me try to push iOS devices on anyone that doesn't ask me specifically, especially here. Why? Different people have different priorities. The cost of the device is not a priority for everyone. Again, I'd rather have the Acura TSX, than the Ford Taurus not JUST for the way the TSX looks, but the entire experience, its' build quality, the way it handles and its acceleration profile. I'd rather have the 5s not JUST for how it looks, that's minimal, but for the experience it provides me. A simple device that I don't have to molest to get working the way I would prefer. There was a time I enjoyed molesting and tweaking my phones. I tired of that. I have simple needs and I like the way the iPhone meets them better than the way Android meets them.


via the tablet

 

[Geodude074]

Okay, I will assume that there are apparently people with the attention span of a butterfly with ADHD, and are indeed chatting / messaging with multiple people concurrently while listening to music in the background. I personally would not be able to focus on so many activities at the same time.

Second, I believe we are talking about smartphones, not tablets.

Third, why do those apps need to be open at the same time? That's what push notifications are for.

So my point is that for what most people need to do on their phones, dual core suffices, while delivering better performance and battery life, like what the moto x has shown.

These people are called teenagers.

They're also called powerusers. Although they most likely won't be using an Android/iOS tablet, more like a Windows tablet that can multitask like a champ.

Are you really going to argue that processors in tablets are not conducive to processors in phones? Because they are essentially the same, except tablet SoCs have their TDP raised so their clockspeeds can be higher.

Why do these apps need to be open at the same time? WHY NOT?! I'd rather have apps running at the same time with live, instant notification, than waiting for a notification to pop up so I can switch over to it.

And once again, you're thinking of present day software and you aren't thinking ahead towards future multi-threaded software.

The reason why the iPhone gets by with a dual-core is because it doesn't multitask and it has a nonHD screen. It's not even 720p...