Why exactly does iOS 7 need to be 64bit?

[Shilohcane]

Just converted two of my enterprise apps to 64 bit this morning.



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So now you have to sell both a 32 bit App and a 64 bit App?

How much larger is the 64bit over the 32bit App for storage?

Also, what functionality does the 64bit App provide for the person that purchases the App that is limited by the 32bit App that will run on the i5s in 32bit emulation mode?

 

[apollooff320]

The i5s new A7 64 bit CPU is a gimmick to sell the phone. There are No 64 bit Apps and it will be 4 to 7 years before people start writing them until there are few 32 bit Apple CPU devices out there. A 64 bit CPU can run a 32 bit App but a 32 bit CPU can NOT run a 64 bit App. In a phone or tablet the one and only advantage a 64 bit CPU has over a 32 bit CPU is addressing RAM. A 32 bit CPU can only address 4 GB of RAM in it's single word computer instructions width without going to double word that would slow it's performance down. Unless a phone needs more than 4GB of RAM there is little a 64 bit CPU improves on over a 32 bit CPU.

There are no 64 bit Apps so forget about moving data faster with a 64 bit CPU. A 64 bit CPU only runs up the cost since you now need twice as much RAM memory to perform the same OS actions. If the phone or tablet was a data base server then the extra data width would have a speed advantage. 64 bits may give better color resolution but the last thing we want is wider data with limited mobile data modem speed and where the phone network charges you by the bytes transmitted and received.

That said Samsung is going to 64 bit CPU....

Samsung's next Galaxy smartphones to feature 64-bit chips, too | Mobile - CNET News

wrong...Apple already said their apps are running 64bit and even the OS. Infinity Blade is also taking advantage of it also and it only took 1 person 2hrs to convert the game to 64 bit. You need to research more before making false statements like they're true.

 

[Farish]

So now you have to sell both a 32 bit App and a 64 bit App?
These are enterprise apps so that is a different scenario as these companies will deploy these apps directly on their phones. The app store is only one App sold then the appropriate binary is downloaded to the appropriate device.

How much larger is the 64bit over the 32bit App for storage?
A few kilobytes, these apps are just UI Tableviews that connect to a SQL Server to parse xml data for latest vendor or sales pricing levels.

Also, what functionality does the 64bit App provide for the person that purchases the App that is limited by the 32bit App that will run on the i5s in 32bit emulation mode?
We don't know yet, unless you are a specialize developer(Epic) or an Apple employee, nobody else has iPhone 5s hardware to give us any benchmarks.

Answers noted in bold.

 

[John Flud]

because apple controls their own hardware, OS, app store and software developer kit, they've made it very easy to make apps able to run in 64bit. it took infinity blade 2 hours and one person to do it. plus apple has their developer kit where is easy to make one app that will know if its on a 32 bit device or 64 bit device and work accordingly. something called binaries. I'm not a techie but I've gotten this from people who are. This means more than likely will see most apps adopt this within a couple months not 4-7 years. LOL

I can't wait to see how it stacks up in real life tests. I bet its going to smoke the competition. well except for the screen that still sucks. I hope the iphone 6 finally deals with that and makes a screen I don't have to squint to read. but the speed, the improved camera the cool touch ID will keep me happy enough this year.

 

[gollum18]

because apple controls their own hardware, OS, app store and software developer kit, they've made it very easy to make apps able to run in 64bit. it took infinity blade 2 hours and one person to do it. plus apple has their developer kit where is easy to make one app that will know if its on a 32 bit device or 64 bit device and work accordingly. something called binaries. I'm not a techie but I've gotten this from people who are. This means more than likely will see most apps adopt this within a couple months not 4-7 years. LOL

I can't wait to see how it stacks up in real life tests. I bet its going to smoke the competition. well except for the screen that still sucks. I hope the iphone 6 finally deals with that and makes a screen I don't have to squint to read. but the speed, the improved camera the cool touch ID will keep me happy enough this year.

You can expect a notable price increase to substantiate the cost of adding a better screen.

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[John Flud]

I'll happily pay it. Then I will have an iphone which is my prefered smartphone with a screen thats easier to read. though apple did put dynamic text in iOS7. if it works well and many apps take advantage of it, it may allow me to make the print bigger and resolve the issue without a bigger screen which is fine with me. can't wait to try it next week.

 

[anon5664829]

You can say that again! Love how 'innovative' Apple has become by stating they've merely changed the processor architecture and they'll probably make this a big deal when the damn handset goes on sale in the Apple store!

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Just like the S4 only changed the camera architecture right?

Posted via Android Central App

 

[pappy53]

This means more than likely will see most apps adopt this within a couple months not 4-7 years. LOL

Bazinga!

 

[pappy53]

With the groundwork that Apple is laying now, if they come out with a legitimate large-screen iPhone 6, it could possibly be the best selling phone in history. There will be Android converts by the thousands, if not hundreds of thousands.

 

[Shilohcane]

because apple controls their own hardware, OS, app store and software developer kit, they've made it very easy to make apps able to run in 64bit. it took infinity blade 2 hours and one person to do it. plus apple has their developer kit where is easy to make one app that will know if its on a 32 bit device or 64 bit device and work accordingly. something called binaries. I'm not a techie but I've gotten this from people who are. This means more than likely will see most apps adopt this within a couple months not 4-7 years. LOL

.

So other than a App using more storage space on your phone for larger 64 bit App size binary and downloading larger 64 bit data over your limited data modem speed that cost some data plans extra data charges, what does the A7 64 bit CPU give you that the same A7 emulating the same App in 32 bit mode give you on a phone?

The A7 can emulate the 32 bit App at about the same speed as the 64 bit Apps. This is a phone not a data server and the 64 bit data width is the enemy for the LTE data modem speed. That is why few Apps will want to run in native 64 bit size since it doesn't improve anything on the App.

 

[Farish]

So other than a App using more storage space on your phone for larger 64 bit App size binary and downloading larger 64 bit data over your limited data modem speed that cost some data plans extra data charges, what does the A7 64 bit CPU give you that the same A7 emulating the same App in 32 bit mode give you on a phone?

The A7 can emulate the 32 bit App at about the same speed as the 64 bit Apps. This is a phone not a data server and the 64 bit data width is the enemy for the LTE data modem speed. That is why few Apps will want to run in native 64 bit size since it doesn't improve anything on the App.

Any app made for IOS7 will be compiled for 64 bit automatically. There is no way to release a 32bit only app for IOS7. The instant a developer takes any IOS6 app and does an update, even a single character change, it will be recompiled into two binaries. You can not choose just to upload the 32bit binary for whatever reason you like.

Meaning if you have an iPhone 5s any app with with a 64bit binary will only download the 64bit version of the app. There is no selection to this process.

This also means every app that gets updated will be 64 bit on the iPhone 5s, every new app made today will be 64bit on the iPhone 5s. There is no way to escape this unless you have an old app that you made before IOS7 and you never update it.

There is no escape to this process.

 

[garublador]

With the groundwork that Apple is laying now, if they come out with a legitimate large-screen iPhone 6, it could possibly be the best selling phone in history. There will be Android converts by the thousands, if not hundreds of thousands.

There's no way that will happen. The best selling phone in history sold 250 million units. The best selling smartphone so far has been the S4 at 20M units. It's not just a 5" screen keeping people on Android, it's the extra functionality and openness you get from the OS.

Either way, 100k people moving from Android to iOS for a phone is 1% of 10M. Saying 1% of the people will switch isn't exactly a mass migration. You probably get that every time a new flagship phone is released.

 

[John Flud]

Any app made for IOS7 will be compiled for 64 bit automatically. There is no way to release a 32bit only app for IOS7. The instant a developer takes any IOS6 app and does an update, even a single character change, it will be recompiled into two binaries. You can not choose just to upload the 32bit binary for whatever reason you like.

Meaning if you have an iPhone 5s any app with with a 64bit binary will only download the 64bit version of the app. There is no selection to this process.

This also means every app that gets updated will be 64 bit on the iPhone 5s, every new app made today will be 64bit on the iPhone 5s. There is no way to escape this unless you have an old app that you made before IOS7 and you never update it.

There is no escape to this process.

wow if this is true then we won't even have to wait two months. are you an app developer or did you read this somewhere? (in which case I'd love to read that article. ) I'm really getting excited now!

 

[pappy53]

The best selling smartphone so far has been the S4 at 20M units.

Not even close. The iPhone 5 has sold 57,250,000 units.

 

[garublador]

Not even close. The iPhone 5 has sold 57,250,000 units.

Alright, so the hundreds of thousands of people is less than 1%. It's still 4-5 times fewer units than the best selling phone of all time and there's no way a 5" iPhone would get anywhere close to that number. By that time a 5" screen won't seem like a big deal anymore. It will be like when the 5 got LTE. If it were the 4S that got it it would have been a big deal, but by the time the 5 got it it was expected.

I agree a ~5" iPhone screen will be nice and probably necessary to be considered equal with whatever comes out next year from Android, but it's not something that will make the iPhone that much better than the top Android phones. It will only make it just as good as them in that one respect. There's still a lot of other reasons to use Android over iOS. The 5" screen is just a single one right now.

 

[Farish]

wow if this is true then we won't even have to wait two months. are you an app developer or did you read this somewhere? (in which case I'd love to read that article. ) I'm really getting excited now!

App dev

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[Shilohcane]

Any app made for IOS7 will be compiled for 64 bit automatically. There is no way to release a 32bit only app for IOS7. The instant a developer takes any IOS6 app and does an update, even a single character change, it will be recompiled into two binaries. You can not choose just to upload the 32bit binary for whatever reason you like.

Meaning if you have an iPhone 5s any app with with a 64bit binary will only download the 64bit version of the app. There is no selection to this process.

This also means every app that gets updated will be 64 bit on the iPhone 5s, every new app made today will be 64bit on the iPhone 5s. There is no way to escape this unless you have an old app that you made before IOS7 and you never update it.

There is no escape to this process.

Got any proof because there are several Articles that agree with me and I haven't seen any that agree with your opinion. What is the point of the A7 running in 32 bit emulation mode if every App will come in both 64 bit and 32 bit binaries?

Read This;

Why Apple went 64-bit with the iPhone 5s | ZDNet

Bottom line

The bottom line is that there's a lot more to the iPhone switching to a 64-bit processor than hype. While the applications for it might be limited right now, Apple is paving the way for improvements that we'll see trickle into the iPhone over the next few years.

 

[John Flud]

the point of the A7 being able to run 32 bit apps is so that iphone users don't find that half their apps don't work because they haven't been updated yet. thats why its backward compatible. Apple is good at making stuff like this seamless. Apple also isn't known to just toss specs in for specs sake. If Farish has an article to share I want to read it too, but still, it sounds like something apple would do to make this transition as easy as possible.

 

[Shilohcane]

Farish I will just keep pounding you with articles that support my view that this 64 bit CPU isn't that useful now....Maybe in a few years but not now. Where is your proof?

Apple's iPhone 5s, the A7 Chip, and That 64-Bit Question - John Paczkowski - Mobile - AllThingsD

And there?s no question that the benefits of 64-bit are huge. What?s less clear is how evident they?ll be in the iPhone 5s. Because, as innumerable observers have pointed out this week, in order to tap into the biggest performance gains offered by a 64-bit chip, you need a smartphone with more than four gigabytes of RAM. And, while Apple hasn?t said how much RAM it has built into the 5s, it?s highly unlikely that it?s enough to meet that requirement.

That has led some to wonder whether this move to 64-bit is a long-term play whose only real short-term benefit is marketing ? the ability to tout the 5s as the first 64-bit smartphone ever, even though it doesn?t have the internals to fully take advantage of that 64-bit A7 chip.

But chip experts say that there are some gains to be had even from a 64-bit chip without 4GB of addressable memory.

For one thing, 64-bit integer math will allow the A7 to execute operations much faster than the 32-bit A6. ?The fact that the A7 has twice as many processor registers means that more operations can occur without the processor using main memory, which is slower to access,? Carl Howe, VP of research and data sciences at the Yankee Group told AllThingsD. ?This means that for some codes, the A7 will be twice as fast (or faster depending on how many memory accesses the original code had) to run code because the processor doesn?t have to use main memory as much.?

But for most, the gains found here will be marginal, said Moor Insights analyst Paul Teich. ?Double the register file adds a few percent to performance,? he said. ?It?s a deep compiler and runtime VM issue. ? So marginal improvements for most apps, at best. Depending on how code is written it can run a little longer without hitting main memory, but it really depends on whether you are writing a computationally intensive app or not.?

 

[Farish]

Got any proof because there are several Articles that agree with me and I haven't seen any that agree with your opinion. What is the point of the A7 running in 32 bit emulation mode if every App will come in both 64 bit and 32 bit binaries?

Read This;

Why Apple went 64-bit with the iPhone 5s | ZDNet

The point is to ensure backwards compatibility. Not everybody will have their apps immediately updated for release date nor with how long Apple takes to approves things will it be done. There are also app developers that no longer support their app but they still sell the product. Or the app is free and they dont care to update.

Now for the purposes of put up or shut up



I will quote this directly.


The iOS kernel, libraries, and drivers now take advantage of 64-bit, delivering up to 2x faster CPU and graphics performance for your apps and games. And it?s easy to build and run your apps in 64-bit because Xcode automatically builds your apps into binaries that will run on both 32-bit and 64-bit devices.

The rest is in the developer sdk which is under NDA til the 18th

But if you dont believe me there is nothing I can do to change your mind but everything I stated is fact.

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