got my fascinate today... vzw rep told me interesting things...

[NOsquid]

I completely agree with that, it's unacceptable.

 

[Menno]

We keep hearing reports of this and it makes me furious. Verizon reps should not be touching your phone unless you explicitly instruct them to. If Verizon corporate really thinks ATK should be on there, it should be tested and baked into the ROM before the phone ever reaches the store. There should be a corporate policy against employees doing this at the store. The last thing you want is a company that thinks Bing should be standard on an Android phone, is for them to decide other 3rd party apps are best for you.

I can't speak for every policy, and I CAN tell you that installing ATK is not part of official policy (though a lot of trainers for verizon encourage it because most of them don't use android devices as their daily drivers)

But Verizon has a program that REQUIRES reps to set up certain parts of each phone they sell or they're written up.
-Set up your email on device, send test email to corp servers
-activate backup assistant (yes, even on android)
-and a handful of other things, obtainably to "help" consumers. installing third party apps isn't part of this list, but it's pretty standard for a rep to be encouraged to download an app for two for the customer so they are familar with the process.

 

[Kevin Gossett]

My VZW rep (who is awesome, btw) has never done any of those things to any of my phones, and he has never seen any consequences because of it

 

[Menno]

Consumers put trust in sales people. How many times have you been into Best Buy, Sears, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. and ask a question. What does the sales associate do? They look at the sales tag of the product! I can do that. Don't be so quick to dismiss consumers as ignorant and not knowing about the products they are purchasing. This thing called the Internet has useful information, and consumers are so much more informed than sales people.

If I can go out and do research on my 54" plasma, on my own time which I'm not getting paid for, then why can't a sales person, who is trained by the vendor in some cases, know at least as much as I do?

Let's face it, the sales people in most cases do more harm then good. They are uninformed about the products, and only care about getting the customer out the door and commission in their pocket. So back on my soap box I go until I find a sales person that takes their job seriously and actually knows about the product they are selling.

Cellphone salesmen need to know about every phone they sell, every phone their competitor sells, all of their plans and their competitions plans, not to mention keeping track of sales, promotions, etc.

It's not a "Product" it's dozens upon dozens of products in countless combinations.

an enthusiast or someone who researches a SPECIFIC product will almost ALWAYS know more about that device than a salesman who is selling 15 different devices across 5 major platforms

Yes, sales people should know more, and they should specialize, but the fact of the matter is that consumers won't pay enough to justify those people taking the time to do so.

Most consumers walk into my store assuming I'm an idiot. They shoved me in that box before I even say "hello" why should I spend HOURS of my time outside of work (because in a busy store, there is rarely time to research during work, if the company even allows it) to find all these minute details about every device I sell when 90% of that specific knowledge will be asked about?

I spend a lot of time looking up android news because I as a USER like android. There are not enough hours in the day for me to put that much time into WebOS, Blackberry, Windows6.5/Windows7,Iphone (even though I'm verizon, I NEED to know about the iphone because 30% of my questions are about it), Brew, the pricing of every device and plan I sell, the prices of my competition, etc.

If you want a specialist, you need to pay a premium price. As a whole, consumers decided they'd rather get products cheaper. welcome to the world we created.

 

[Menno]

My VZW rep (who is awesome, btw) has never done any of those things to any of my phones, and he has never seen any consequences because of it

That you know of.

The plan is a nationwide rollout and your numbers are tracked every three days. If he hasn't gotten any heat over it he has a very lenient rep, or he's doing it to everyone else's phones and just not yours because he knows you won't like it.

 

[Menno]

Edit: apparently the post I was replying to was deleted.

It does make a difference. I love technology, and I'm an avid android user and fan. I most likely know more about android than most other reps I work with. But it's because I'm a fan of the topic.

But the issue is I'm also expected to know of and sell Blackberry, Windows Mobile, WebOS, BREW, and have an understanding of the competition (iOS)

If someone comes in with a very specific android question I can basically always help them, but if someone is a huge webOS enthusiast, and he comes in with specific questions he'll most likely school me.

This isn't because I'm "lazy" I spend most of my slow time at work and after work trying to keep up with these other platforms, but it's pretty hard to be an enthusiast, much less a specialist in multiple platforms when you're in retail.

If it was like a decade ago and you'd make bank on every sale.. maybe. But cellphone sales arn't profitable like that anymore. If I was that kind of specialist I'd be working a lot higher up in the company or working for RIM or HTC or someone as a brand evangelist, not listening to customers day in and day out asking me when verizon's getting the iphone

 

[thechemE#CB]

i feel like i have decent reps at the store by my school. The guy went on and on about how he can't understand why verizon puts bing and a bunch of other crap on the phone when no one uses it. He didn't blame me for trading in my fascinate for a dinc.

They said my gps was not bad on it i just couldn't use google maps or navigation. I had to use vzw navigator (this was the technician). So thats when i told em i wanted a new phone. Can't use a google app on an android phone, thats nuts. The rep that initially helped me didn't blame me for it.

Oh and he installed nothing on my phone, didn't even offer any recommendations, which i like. I hate when they try to push stuff on you.

 

[Kevin Gossett]

That you know of.

The plan is a nationwide rollout and your numbers are tracked every three days. If he hasn't gotten any heat over it he has a very lenient rep, or he's doing it to everyone else's phones and just not yours because he knows you won't like it.

I have seen him set up phones for multiple customers, both family and complete strangers, and have never seen him install anything on a phone, even with his manager standing right there. Maybe he gets special treatment because he is that location's top producer.... I don't know. But I have never seen it before.

 

[iBowToAndroid]

i just brought home the fascinate today... nice phone.. nice and light...

but this the gist of what the VZW rep told me:
"the Fascinate is actually a 4g phone... and with a software update will be 4g compatible when VZW goes 4g..."

can this actually be?

and he also installed Advanced Task Killer for me... annoyed that Fascinate has soo much bloatware and then he adds more...

Are you sure you were at a corporate store??? I have definitely heard of over-the-phone customer service telling customers something like this, but not an in-store employee..

The installation of ATK by Verizon reps (or any other software) has to stop. Since it seems to be widespread, I can only think it's coming from Corporate that they should be installing this crap.

Definitely not from corporate. It's due to most employees' unfamiliarity with Android, and the fact that ATK is probably the most-downloaded Android app. Somehow, somewhere, a long time ago, when VZW first launched Android, reps started hearing from a couple people that ATK can help with battery life. So they install it thinking it will help the customer in the long run. Or for example, if a customer comes in with an Android phone complaining of poor battery life, 9 in 10 reps will install ATK if they can't find anything wrong with the battery or the phone itself.

As a former employee, I've seen it all. I'm even ashamed to admit that I was one of the ones who did that for a few months, being new to Android. But I quickly wisened up. No, it's definitely not a corporate thing, and if any of you run into the situation where a rep installed things on your new phone, I would just politely but firmly let them know that recommendations are always welcome (uninformed though they may be), but please leave the actual app installation process in the hands of the end user.

 

[iBowToAndroid]

I too think its coming from corporate. Because this is widespread. It's not just happening in one area or to select people. I referred a friend to a Droid and when he bought it first thing they did was install ATK. They said its because Android will continue to run apps in the background and drain battery. No, what drains battery is that live wallpaper you decided to put on there as well.

It's not actually a directive from corporate, although I know it's hard to believe. As someone mentioned earlier, reps are indeed encouraged to setup certain things on smartphones before the customer leaves the store, including email setup, Backup Assistant if applicable, and an app or two to fully demonstrate the phone's features. In the case of email and BA, those metrics are actually tracked by corporate, believe it or not..

But ATK comes from 1) rep's unfamiliarity with Android and how it works, 2) preventing future troubleshooting, and 3) the old rumor that ATK works, passed on via word of mouth and also the internal interwebs. I was always the techy-geeky guy at my store, who all the other employees knew to come to for a phone question, and I properly educated as many of them about ATK as soon as I learned the truth about it.

When I bought my X the rep set up my phone he dl the recommend apps he had a sheat with what to set up these phones. As I walked out door I did a hard reset.

Lol +1

So are people just blowing off the 4g thing as sales bs? Or does everyone hate task killers so much they just jumped on that topic?

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

Utter BS. Verizon will not be making any 3G phones that are upgradeable to 4G. Different hardware altogether. I have heard that the Moto tablet (Stingray?) may be upgradeable via an installable module, but definitely no phones.

Consumers put trust in sales people. How many times have you been into Best Buy, Sears, Lowes, Home Depot, etc. and ask a question. What does the sales associate do? They look at the sales tag of the product! I can do that. Don't be so quick to dismiss consumers as ignorant and not knowing about the products they are purchasing. This thing called the Internet has useful information, and consumers are so much more informed than sales people.

If I can go out and do research on my 54" plasma, on my own time which I'm not getting paid for, then why can't a sales person, who is trained by the vendor in some cases, know at least as much as I do?

Let's face it, the sales people in most cases do more harm then good. They are uninformed about the products, and only care about getting the customer out the door and commission in their pocket. So back on my soap box I go until I find a sales person that takes their job seriously and actually knows about the product they are selling.

The problem is, there's just too much about Android that reps dont have the time to learn. VZW does not educate them on the ins and outs of the software, not of Android nor any other smartphone OS. There were a couple trainings that went a little more in-depth when the Droid and Eris were first released, since they were the first. But since then, they just figure that Android is Android, so why bother. Most device trainings for a new phone consist of a 2 minute Flash slideshow that they click through that highlights the phone's features and how to position and sell them. Once in a while, a more in-depth training will be released when a new feature or product is launched (Skype, Blockbuster, Mobile Hotspot, etc.). But in general, the reps know nothing about the software and how it works.

You can't blame them- corporate doesn't feel it's necessary to put that kind of effort and money into training reps on it. If they did it for Android, they'd have to do it for every OS. Not every employee is gonna be a techy geek like me and keep up on all the Android sites all day at work on their phone, and then learn as much as they can about it even when they're off. And you can't expect them to.. There are very few hourly retail sales employees who are gonna actually read up on what they're selling when they're off the clock. They're not getting paid for it, why would they..??

So yes, anyone reading this forum is likely to know more about Android than your average VZW rep. It might help to ask for the most knowledgeable rep (Android or otherwise) when you go in, in case there's a guy working there who actually knows what he's talking about (or girl- Android chicks rock my socks!!)

i feel like i have decent reps at the store by my school. The guy went on and on about how he can't understand why verizon puts bing and a bunch of other crap on the phone when no one uses it. He didn't blame me for trading in my fascinate for a dinc.

They said my gps was not bad on it i just couldn't use google maps or navigation. I had to use vzw navigator (this was the technician). So thats when i told em i wanted a new phone. Can't use a google app on an android phone, thats nuts. The rep that initially helped me didn't blame me for it.

Of course you can use Maps/Nav. It's Search that you can't use on a Bing'd phone.

 

[Menno]

One thing to remember about a cellphone rep:

It's their job to get you on a contract, so the thing they spend the most time training on are the plans.

As users we see the phone as the most important part of the transaction, but it's the contract that actually gets a rep paid.

 

[thechemE#CB]

Of course you can use Maps/Nav. It's Search that you can't use on a Bing'd phone.

I'm pretty sure i had a faulty gps because it just would not work. However verizon tech support insisted that it wasn't the gps. They said it just didn't work with maps and nav and they did not know why. Their solution: use vznavigator. My solution: get a different phone. I now own a dinc.

 

[DroidDev]

That is garbage. The rep told me that too so I schooled him. I brought up Google Maps and presto it didnt work, took FOREVER. Then I brought up VZ Nav bing maps to do it and presto, it DIDNT WORK! They all think they know what they are talking about and it is this kind of thing that makes me wish they all actually researched things that effect the company they work for.

 

[Cory Streater]

As users we see the phone as the most important part of the transaction, but it's the contract that actually gets a rep paid.

And it shows in their faces. More than once, I've had a store employee become dramatically less enthusiastic when I break the news that I'm about to buy a phone from them at full price. I've learned over time, that buying online is the only way to go - contract renewal or not.

 

[NickA]

Not too mention the looks on their faces when I don't buy 50 accessories to go along with my phone. They have to be making money off the sales of accessories because they push those so hard. An SD card reader? Please, I have a drawer full because they come free with every card I purchase.

 

[NickA]

Most consumers walk into my store assuming I'm an idiot. They shoved me in that box before I even say "hello" why should I spend HOURS of my time outside of work (because in a busy store, there is rarely time to research during work, if the company even allows it) to find all these minute details about every device I sell when 90% of that specific knowledge will be asked about?

You make some good points and I only want to comment on this one. I always have an open mind when going into a retail store, and hope I get a good sales person.

But to answer your question as to why you should spend time outside of work doing research? Because it's your job is how I would answer that. If I don't keep up on the latest version of .NET, programming languages, trends, SDK's, etc. I get left behind and lose clients. I do that research on my own time in non-billable hours so I can stay on top and be successful. I've had real knowledgeable Verizon reps in the past, and when I go back to that store I ask for them, and recommend other people go see him as well. The problem is, the knowledgeable reps often move on to bigger/better things, and we are stuck with someone with lesser ability.

 

[DroidDev]

Yeah when I decline an sd card from Verizon back before they started coming with the phones the reps were so disappointed. Why pay $70 for something I can get off newegg much cheaper...

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[Cory Streater]

I've resorted to lying in those situations. My response is now, "in anticipation of buying this phone, I've already purchased a screen protector, case, and memory card from a 3rd party source." They are not happy, but it stops further discussion of the topic.

 

[NickA]

I've resorted to lying in those situations. My response is now, "in anticipation of buying this phone, I've already purchased a screen protector, case, and memory card from a 3rd party source." They are not happy, but it stops further discussion of the topic.

Me too! Even if I don't have a car charger I say I do just to end the agony.

 

[Your my boy blue]

The amazing thing to me is how alot of you are quick to say that verizon or tmo or att employees are idiots.. Are they developers? No, do they know everything? No. Let me ask you a question, when you BUY a car and something goes wrong do you go to the sales person or a mechanic to fix it?? Simple as that.. The fact that you people act like you are god and all wireless SALES PEOPLE are morons is absolutely rediculous and proves the exact opposite.

Lets think about the people that these people are SELLING phones to.. Mostly everyday people that just want the cool phone so they can browse the internet and download the newest fart apps.. probably 1 out of 100 have any idea what they are doing with these phones past downloading apps. Alot of these reps make recomendations based on their own experiences, and just like some of YOU, they use ATK, so they recomend it and set it up on their phones.. Should they Educate the customers more? Would help, but again they are SALES PEOPLE and get paid for SELLING. They arent school teachers for gods sake.. You people that say they should educate people are the same people that when someone would ask you would say nah i'll figure it out myself.. So get off your soap box and look at it a little bit differently.. Would you spend an extra 30-45minutes teaching someone if it meant you would make probably 800-1000 less a month? Probably not..

I think you missed the point, its one thing to recommend ATK or any task killer for that matter, but its another thing to take someones new phone and proceed to install it. Further more you are right, they are "sales people" and at that point where they are holding your phone they have already made the sale.
I know that a lot of people are pretty particular on what goes on their phone, I know I am. My 0.02