LG V20 - DAC Problem?

[Mike Dee]

I went to LG Smartworld on a PC to look at the free WiFi files since they would not download through earthworks. The 32 bit files list only US996 H918 and LS997 as supported models. Does this mean the VS995 Verizon model doesn't use the 32 bit DAC fully or am I misunderstanding something?
They are both FLAC files but the size of the 32 bit is about 760 mb verses 24 bit about 80 mb.

 

[tadpoles]

Yep, it is audibly superior to CD quality but that mostly due to the multi-channel Dolby encoding (surround sound) that's mandated for all blu ray disks. It can get as high as Dolby TruHD which lossless & has a 24 bit resolution. If you strip it down to stereo it's the same quality. For a quick stereo 16 bit resolution, the bit rate calculation is as follows:

44100 samples/sec (Hz)
X 2 bytes/sample (16 bit)
X 2 channels (stereo)
---------------------------------
176400 bytes/sec == 1411200 bits/sec

The higher the channel count, the higher the bits per sec. The human constant factor or limitation would be with the sample frequency & bit resolution.

For more info you can look at this:
High-Def FAQ: Blu-ray and HD DVD Audio Explained | High-Def Digest

Thank you.

 

[RoninX]

I've had my V20 for a few days now, and the sound quality is by far the best I've heard from a smartphone. I'm coming from a Note 5, and I previously owned a Nexus 6P and Note 3, as well as various iPods.

I'm using a set of over-ear Sennheiser HD 598s at home and HD 525s at work. I've also tried it with the Shure SE215 in-ear monitors that I use for travel. For all three headphones, the sound quality is much clearer and more vibrant than with my previous phones.

Part of this may be the DACs and part of it may be the fact that the V20's microSD card allows me to use my full 160 GB library of lossless music, as opposed to downsampling to 192 kpbs AAC for the Note 5 (or 320 kpbs AAC for the Nexus 6P). Part of it may also be the quality of the analog portion of the amplifier, which is just as important.

I'm hoping Anandtech will do a full audio test (using laboratory equipment) on the V20, as they've done for some other smartphones.

 

[Mike Dee]

I went to LG Smartworld on a PC to look at the free WiFi files since they would not download through earthworks. The 32 bit files list only US996 H918 and LS997 as supported models. Does this mean the VS995 Verizon model doesn't use the 32 bit DAC fully or am I misunderstanding something?
They are both FLAC files but the size of the 32 bit is about 760 mb verses 24 bit about 80 mb.

I'm wondering if its just an error on the smartworld site because I see no reason why the phone shouldn't support 32 bit files. Guess I'll have to find or make one.

 

[BeyondMaxPower]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but I just got my assertion confirmed by the factory. The "improvement" that you are hearing is a volume increase due to the change to the high-gain circuit. That circuit is not dependent on the quality of the headphones that you plug in. It changes to the high-gain stage (more voltage/more volume) to compensate for hard to drive headphones. If it kicked in with sensitive earphones, you would hear a hiss in the background. The improvement in "quality" is a placebo effect that you get from the volume increase and the thought that you are taking advantage of the better, ES9218 DAC. The actual output is not much better than the 30 cent Qualcomm DAC also in this device.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The phone detects the headphones impedance and adjusts the volume output. Why? So morons don't listen at ridiculously loud levels, damaging their hearing. The DAC works the exact same. It worked this way on the V10 as well.

The audio in this phone is far better than the majority of phones. Please stop ranting about things you have no clue about.

 

[pvcleave]

Earlier in this thread someone stated they thought that the music play Nuetron was not using the high end DAC. I have stated that I previously had not heard any difference when listening with and without the high end DAC. I am able to hear difference using Amazon player and Media Monkey.

I am wondering does anyone know for sure? I have a paid copy of Nuetron and do like some of it's features, but if it is not going to use the DAC properly, I don't want to use it. I probably should go to the developer, but I thought I would check here first..

 

[mlknez]

Re: Serious V20 Problem!!

You have no idea what you're talking about. The phone detects the headphones impedance and adjusts the volume output. Why? So morons don't listen at ridiculously loud levels, damaging their hearing. The DAC works the exact same. It worked this way on the V10 as well.

The audio in this phone is far better than the majority of phones. Please stop ranting about things you have no clue about.

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. You will be seeing a firmware update from LG in the next couple of weeks. They have confirmed what I have found. The way to test this is to:

1. Obtain a REAL hi-res audio recording such as something that was originally recorded at 96khz/24bit, not digitized from an analog recording or upsampled.
2.Open that file in Adobe Audition (you should see energy above 24 kHz in the frequency spectrum display)
3. copy that file to your V20
4. attach a hi-res digital recorder to your headphone out jack
5. be sure that the hi-fi indicator is on
6. start the recorder and capture at the same sample rate and depth as the original file or higher.
7. take that captured file and load it into Adobe Audition.
8. The files should look nearly identical in the frequency spectrum view (but they won't, because all energy above 24khz is gone)

This same methodology will work for any of the players that I have tried.

 

[mlknez]

Earlier in this thread someone stated they thought that the music play Nuetron was not using the high end DAC. I have stated that I previously had not heard any difference when listening with and without the high end DAC. I am able to hear difference using Amazon player and Media Monkey.

I am wondering does anyone know for sure? I have a paid copy of Nuetron and do like some of it's features, but if it is not going to use the DAC properly, I don't want to use it. I probably should go to the developer, but I thought I would check here first..

The developer's name is Dmitry and he verified that it does not take advantage of the ES9218 DAC. If you want to verify it with him, you can find his email on the website.

 

[Mike Dee]

Earlier in this thread someone stated they thought that the music play Nuetron was not using the high end DAC. I have stated that I previously had not heard any difference when listening with and without the high end DAC. I am able to hear difference using Amazon player and Media Monkey.

I am wondering does anyone know for sure? I have a paid copy of Nuetron and do like some of it's features, but if it is not going to use the DAC properly, I don't want to use it. I probably should go to the developer, but I thought I would check here first..

All I can tell you is that I can use Neutron at the same time as the LG software or Poweramp so I hear two songs at once. Poweramp or the LG software don't play together at the same time with each other or other software I have tested thus far.

 

[pvcleave]

All I can tell you is that I can use Neutron at the same time as the LG software or Poweramp so I hear two songs at once. Poweramp or the LG software don't play together at the same time with each other or other software I have tested thus far.

So I will no longer use Neutron player. It seems other players, besides the LG one are using the DAC. I cannot use Poweramp, as it shows by Artist and cannot find a way to show by Album Artist. It is important to me, based on the way I have my collection set up. Media Monkey seems good.

 

[Mike Dee]

So I will no longer use Neutron player. It seems other players, besides the LG one are using the DAC. I cannot use Poweramp, as it shows by Artist and cannot find a way to show by Album Artist. It is important to me, based on the way I have my collection set up. Media Monkey seems good.

I go into artist and it opens the artists albums....that doesn't work for you?

 

[pvcleave]

I go into artist and it opens the artists albums....that doesn't work for you?

No, that is something different.The album artist is useful if you have compilations. As an example if I have an album with 25 tracks, from 25 artist, using Artist there would be 25 different artists. If I use album artist, there would be one "various". When I play the album, each song would show the track artist. I am horrible at explaining things, but it is a personal preference. It seems to be good for people with large collections.

I looked in the forums on the Poweramp site. The album artist, appears to be highly requested and it has for years. Even if they add it, I do not think I would buy Poweramp. They seem to ignore their users. I realize a lot of people like the app, but I can see people requesting the feature and having discussions about it for years.

 

[mlknez]

Can we take the discussion about what is the best player to another thread?

 

[Mike Dee]

Can we take the discussion about what is the best player to another thread?

My comments are for the most part related to the DAC issue in which you brought up the DAC not working as reported by log files in Neutron. I think the problem is Neutron, not the DAC....somehow I don't think its A stretch that its related.

 

[pvcleave]

Can we take the discussion about what is the best player to another thread?

I brought my discussion up here as it relates specifically to the DAC being a Neutron problem and what players work with the DAC.

 

[mlknez]

ALL of the players work with the DAC. NONE of the players take full advantage of the DAC.

 

[talon1189]

ALL of the players work with the DAC. NONE of the players take full advantage of the DAC.

Is this going to be addressed with the LG update that you mentioned above?

 

[mlknez]

Is this going to be addressed with the LG update that you mentioned above?

I certainly hope so. Until it is, I am going back to my Samsung s7 with my external DAC attached.

 

[Mike Dee]

ALL of the players work with the DAC. NONE of the players take full advantage of the DAC.

Any idea why neutron plays concurrently with other players?

 

[irvine752]

I'm sorry, but you are incorrect. You will be seeing a firmware update from LG in the next couple of weeks. They have confirmed what I have found. The way to test this is to:

1. Obtain a REAL hi-res audio recording such as something that was originally recorded at 96khz/24bit, not digitized from an analog recording or upsampled.
2.Open that file in Adobe Audition (you should see energy above 24 kHz in the frequency spectrum display)
3. copy that file to your V20
4. attach a hi-res digital recorder to your headphone out jack
5. be sure that the hi-fi indicator is on
6. start the recorder and capture at the same sample rate and depth as the original file or higher.
7. take that captured file and load it into Adobe Audition.
8. The files should look nearly identical in the frequency spectrum view (but they won't, because all energy above 24khz is gone)

This same methodology will work for any of the players that I have tried.

The V20 as it stands is capable of delivering a max resolution of 32 bits at 384 kHz. The frequency truncation you have brought up is mostly due to the DAC treating any slight excess electronic noise as distortion, and actively trying to compensate by cleaning out the sound. Yes, a quick firmware patch will & can address the issue if it makes any purists out there happy enough. The key is to be very careful with Synthetic testing, you don't want to introduce any eletronic noise especially to an overly sensetive system.

Pocket Now had quick video showcasing this issue:


But....that was not consistent enough to warrant calling the audio output quality a "placebo effect".The other THD spectrum testing was perfectly fine:
(bottom left corner frequency spectrum matched up with the Fiio K1)


The full video can be found below: