U11 vs iPhone 7 plus vs S8 camera shoot out

[Fred98TJ]

So "best" to you means most accurate.
Which is why, I'm sure, some of the "better" cameras around produce over saturated colors.

I'm not saying that naturally produced colors is not the best. I happen to think that naturally produced colors and white balance is "best", for me, which is one of the primary reasons that I don't use any of the phones talked about here. Others may have different requirements for "best" (my opinion of course)
Based on Rays video the U11 would not be rated "best" by me. ;-p.
Anyway it's like two ticks on two dogs arguing about which is on the best dog.
With film one has many selections to choose from depending on the situation and desired outcome.

 

[Fred98TJ]

For the vast majority of people (who take snaps of family, pets, etc) any of the more current breed on phones will serve them perfectly well, producing snaps for their social media and keepsakes. It's only us relatively few who get all balled up with color reproduction, sharpness, white balance, pixel peeping.

 

[Aquila]

So "best" to you means most accurate.

No, to the industry, the best equipment is the most capable of most accurately reproducing a scene. And that concept can be broken down into metrics and these things can be measured, so we do have the ability to objectively rank them.

If a person prefers something different, that in no way changes the objective ranking. That is a subjective valuation and has nothing to do with the former criteria. That person is then answering a different question that wasn't asked by the objective comparison.

 

[jamezr]

When people have a favorite phone or company that they prefer, and their favorite phones don't take top honors the crying game begins. When they do take top honors... Everything is just fine.

The "Best" title or score from this company has always been a result of the amalgamation of all aspects of the camera performance, not just 1 aspect and this is nothing new.

The Best overall smartphone camera out today as tested by them is the HTC u11 and some people just need to accept it. Is the u11 perfect.. Nope.. But overall it's as good as you can get for right now and all of the oems will try to do better, and that is a Win for all of us.

Mac

So what makes it the best out there for you? Are you basing that opinion on the DxO score alone?
I have a U11 and Pixel XL and 7+ and S8+. I go hiking alot and take pics of my 2 dogs. The U11 has a great camera....but suffers from slow shutter speed when comparing ti to other phones I have for just point and shoot real life photos.
Personally I don't think it is better than the Pixel XL just because DxO said it was. That is like saying one phone is better than another because benchmarks say it is because one phone scored higher than another.

You have to factor in user experience as well and real world use.

 

[Habiib]

So what makes it the best out there for you? Are you basing that opinion on the DxO score alone?
I have a U11 and Pixel XL and 7+ and S8+. I go hiking alot and take pics of my 2 dogs. The U11 has a great camera....but suffers from slow shutter speed when comparing ti to other phones I have for just point and shoot real life photos.
Personally I don't think it is better than the Pixel XL just because DxO said it was. That is like saying one phone is better than another because benchmarks say it is because one phone scored higher than another.

You have to factor in user experience as well and real world use.

I think taking that approach is a double edged sword though. If the user experience only focuses on one metric more than the others, is that a fair representation of a camera's prowess? If all aspects aren't being viewed collectively, then the statement of "best" needs to be viewed from the standpoint of "for that particular user" and is not an accurate representation of a camera's abilities.

 

[jamezr]

I think taking that approach is a double edged sword though. If the user experience only focuses on one metric more than the others, is that a fair representation of a camera's prowess? If all aspects aren't being viewed collectively, then the statement of "best" needs to be viewed from the standpoint of "for that particular user" and is not an accurate representation of a camera's abilities.

Fair enough...but in a lab setting one does not factor in ease of use. It does not factor in shutter speed when taking action shots one would take in normal life settings. It does not factor in user experience that plays a big role in getting a good shot in real life versus a great shot.

Taking still shots is whole different thing than taking everyday pics of life events. Life events only happen in a very short window. One does not always have time to adjust the shutter speed or wait for the perfect light to take a great still shot or lab environment shot.

Most of the pictures people take with their smartphone cameras are normal point and shoot.
I think user experience plays huge part in getting a great shot of a life event that is happening right in front of you....that might not happen again.

 

[Aquila]

Fair enough...but in a lab setting one does not factor in ease of use. It does not factor in shutter speed when taking action shots one would take in normal life settings. It does not factor in user experience that plays a big role in getting a good shot in real life versus a great shot.

Taking still shots is whole different thing than taking everyday pics of life events. Life events only happen in a very short window. One does not always have time to adjust the shutter speed or wait for the perfect light to take a great still shot or lab environment shot.

Most of the pictures people take with their smartphone cameras are normal point and shoot.
I think user experience plays huge part in getting a great shot of a life event that is happening right in front of you....that might not happen again.

You're right in that this is how users should be choosing which one works best for them. But that's a different question, as that's a subjective consideration.

 

[jamezr]

You're right in that this is how users should be choosing which one works best for them. But that's a different question, as that's a subjective consideration.

if you mince words....everything is a subjective consideration....

 

[Aquila]

if you mince words....everything is a subjective consideration....

I would strongly oppose that idea. It's very easy for us to measure which thing has the most whatever. Most math is objective. When we say, x is more accurate than y, that's an objective statement. If it is true or not can be proven.

 

[Habiib]

Fair enough...but in a lab setting one does not factor in ease of use. It does not factor in shutter speed when taking action shots one would take in normal life settings. It does not factor in user experience that plays a big role in getting a good shot in real life versus a great shot.

Taking still shots is whole different thing than taking everyday pics of life events. Life events only happen in a very short window. One does not always have time to adjust the shutter speed or wait for the perfect light to take a great still shot or lab environment shot.

Most of the pictures people take with their smartphone cameras are normal point and shoot.
I think user experience plays huge part in getting a great shot of a life event that is happening right in front of you....that might not happen again.

This is actually a perfect example of why a line may need to be drawn in expectations a user should have based on online comparison test results and their own experiences. One may not be a direct reflection of the other. Me personally, I'm not interested in the camera performance, as I'd never use a smartphone camera to capture meaningful moments or take a serious picture. At the same time, I understand the importance for other users (in particular the point and shoot crowd).

 

[jamezr]

This is actually a perfect example of why a line may need to be drawn in expectations a user should have based on online comparison test results and their own experiences. One may not be a direct reflection of the other. Me personally, I'm not interested in the camera performance, as I'd never use a smartphone camera to capture meaningful moments or take a serious picture. At the same time, I understand the importance for other users (in particular the point and shoot crowd).

I see your point...if you are serious about photography. Then smartphone cameras are not going to suffice. But then most people don't carry a DSLR with them to capture lifes moments as life events are not planned in that fashion. So smartphone cameras will have to do....

 

[jamezr]

I would strongly oppose that idea. It's very easy for us to measure which thing has the most whatever. Most math is objective. When we say, x is more accurate than y, that's an objective statement. If it is true or not can be proven.

ummm math? I think that opinion is rather subjective and not very objective to the conversation as it can neither be proven as fact or an accurate statement.

 

[Aquila]

ummm math? I think that opinion is rather subjective and not very objective to the conversation as it can neither be proven as fact or an accurate statement.

I don't understand what you mean. You disagree that most mathematical statements are objective?

 

[jamezr]

I don't understand what you mean. You disagree that most mathematical statements are objective?

do you agree that bringing math into the camera discussion was very subjective and not very objective?
That statement was subjectively out of place in an objective camera discussion.
In my subjective opinion of course....

 

[Aquila]

do you agree that bringing math into the camera discussion was very subjective and not very objective?
That statement was subjectively out of place in an objective camera discussion.
In my subjective opinion of course....

No, I do not agree with that. Since we were talking about measurements, and measurements are mathematical statements. Also the many of the statements in this quote are gibberish lol

Sorry I may be slow today

 

[jamezr]

wow that wasn't nice....
Objectively i find many of your quotes to be gibberish as well. So at least we can agree on something
but then of course my opinions are purely subjective

I still don't agree with the math part of your statement. No where in my posts did i ever bring up measurements when comparing cameras. In fact i concentrated on the whole user experience. You brought math into the discussion.... i did not.
The statement was here https://forums.androidcentral.com/#mn_p_lc and was out of context for the user experience post.

 

[Aquila]

wow that wasn't nice....
Objectively i find many of your quotes to be gibberish as well. So at least we can agree on something
but then of course my opinions are purely subjective

I still don't agree with the math part of your statement. No where in my posts did i ever bring up measurements when comparing cameras. In fact i concentrated on the whole user experience. You brought math into the discussion.... i did not.
The statement was here https://forums.androidcentral.com/#mn_p_lc and was out of context for the user experience post.

Sorry, wasn't trying to insult, I thought you were playing with the words. My mistake. I was referencing the objectivity vs subjectivity vein that the thread has been focused on. I realize you focused on the subjective, what's best for the user in the moment criteria. My point was that the presence of subjective criteria does not eliminate the presence of objective criteria.

As an example, one could say that chocolate ice cream has either more or less calories than vanilla ice cream, whichever is true. That statement can be verified by actually measuring the calorie content of the same quantity of each kind. So this would be an objective statement that can be checked and verified using measurement, aka math to determine which is actually greater. At the same time, you could say that one tastes better than the other, and since that is based on your perceptions and opinions, that would be subjective.

So while we do have the ability to say that one camera is able to be measured to out perform another in testing scenarios, aka it is objectively superior - that doesn't necessarily mean that it is the best one for every individual, because which one is best for an individual is a subjective claim based on their own perceptions and opinions. It also follows that no matter who, or even how many, prefer one over another, the measurements and associated rankings themselves are free of influence from those subjective criteria and do not change simply because of user preferences.

TLDR, there is an objective ranking to these cameras that can be measured and verified and there are subjective opinions about these cameras, that cannot be measured and verified, because they are simply opinions. You focused on the latter to the exclusion of the former, yet both exist.

 

[MDMcAtee]

Fair enough...but in a lab setting one does not factor in ease of use. It does not factor in shutter speed when taking action shots one would take in normal life settings. It does not factor in user experience that plays a big role in getting a good shot in real life versus a great shot.

Taking still shots is whole different thing than taking everyday pics of life events. Life events only happen in a very short window. One does not always have time to adjust the shutter speed or wait for the perfect light to take a great still shot or lab environment shot.

Most of the pictures people take with their smartphone cameras are normal point and shoot.
I think user experience plays huge part in getting a great shot of a life event that is happening right in front of you....that might not happen again.

Isn't this exactly what DxOMark does with their evaluation and testing?

Mac

 

[jamezr]

Isn't this exactly what DxOMark does with their evaluation and testing?

Mac

not exactly....they have a very controlled repeatable testing process. real life is not that way at all.

 

[Aquila]

Just like the most capable racing car, fastest, most efficient, great handling... Maybe not the car you want to drive to the grocery or on your 4,000 mile vacation. Some subjective criteria would have heavy weight there.