03-15-2013 11:45 AM
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  1. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Didn't see that the t4 was using an a15 companion core. Which is cool and I see why they did it but to tell me that its not good to use 4 cores as a companion core that even at their max speed still sip less than 1w isn't a good alternative. I will not say which one is better due to me not using either but I think they will be great alternatives for smart phone buyers in the future. And BTW what did nvidia run said benchmarks on because that could be one huge reason why you see a difference in scores
    Edit
    Saw it was done on a tablet which explains quite a bit in my mind. I can almost guaranty the t4 had much more power to burn running in a tablet and was also less susceptible to heat by not being packed in a thin phone casing
    Looks like that one a15 core is really efficient playing a 1080p video using about than 950mw
    Yep. I'd guess (and it is just a guess) that the power use is about the same between the two solutions. nVidia's probably has a smaller physical footprint, though, at least judging by the die pics of the Octa, and assuming a similar core size between the Samsung and Nvidia A15 core. So that leaves it to the GPU to determine the performance champ. Preliminary reports on both solutions point toward the nVidia ULP GeForce being the winner. There are other things to consider that aren't performance related, like the ISP.

    I will of course want to see them both in action, and they'll both be plenty fast, but nVidia still has the Tegrazone. It's the trump card.
    03-12-2013 11:21 PM
  2. OC Nut's Avatar
    The T4 has an A15 companion core clocked lower. Judging by the power tables I've seen at the clockspeed they have it at power consumption should be good on the companion core.

    Also, it looks like the Octa won't be able to use the A7 and A15 cores at the same time. It's one or the other. Depending on the work load that could be a not good situation.
    The video of the Exynos Octa tablet at MWC showed simultaneous use of A7 and A15 cores (with a total of 4 cores active). I think the Octa is not meant to use all *8* cores at once (although I've read that it theoretically could), but I think it does allow a mixture of A7s and A15s at the same time (if the tablet demo isn't lying).
    03-12-2013 11:25 PM
  3. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    The video of the Exynos Octa tablet at MWC showed simultaneous use of A7 and A15 cores (with a total of 4 cores active). I think the Octa is not meant to use all *8* cores at once (although I've read that it theoretically could), but I think it does allow a mixture of A7s and A15s at the same time (if the tablet demo isn't lying).
    According to Anandtech it won't be like that initially. Specifically this section:

    While it's possible for you to use both in parallel, initial software implementations will likely just allow you to run on the A7 or A15 clusters and switch based on performance requirements.
    03-12-2013 11:43 PM
  4. Auzo's Avatar
    Too bad it's still not as fast as the Tegra 4. Be sure to click the source on THIS ARTICLE.

    Octa is overrated IMO. I'm sure it'll be fast and all that, but it's really nothing special. (companion cores have been around since Tegra 3, if not before)
    Never said it was. This thread was about the SoC inside the GS4 and the T4 isn't an option. Between the two option on the table, although the snapdragon 600 has all but been ruled out, the Octa is easily the best choice.

    With that said, the T4 is a beast and would take the overall performance crown based on the released benchmarks, at least assuming it isn't severely thermal limited in a phone use case. I think the T4's biggest problem is going to be power consumption. I'll reserve judgement until we get actual phone with it inside but I'm not quite sure how well the companion core will end up working out.

    The video of the Exynos Octa tablet at MWC showed simultaneous use of A7 and A15 cores (with a total of 4 cores active). I think the Octa is not meant to use all *8* cores at once (although I've read that it theoretically could), but I think it does allow a mixture of A7s and A15s at the same time (if the tablet demo isn't lying).
    Please provide a link to this video because that goes against everything I have seen about the Octa. There is an implementation of big.little that can use the two groups simultaneously, but that isn't supposed to be the implementation that Samsung ended up going with for the Octa. You scale as needed on one group of CPUs and once the workload is to much for the 4 A7s you switch over the the group of A15s.
    03-12-2013 11:50 PM
  5. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Never said it was. This thread was about the SoC inside the GS4 and the T4 isn't an option. Between the two option on the table, although the snapdragon 600 has all but been ruled out, the Octa is easily the best choice.

    With that said, the T4 is a beast and would take the overall performance crown based on the released benchmarks, at least assuming it isn't severely thermal limited in a phone use case. I think the T4's biggest problem is going to be power consumption. I'll reserve judgement until we get actual phone with it inside but I'm not quite sure how well the companion core will end up working out.



    Please provide a link to this video because that goes against everything I have seen about the Octa. There is an implementation of big.little that can use the two groups simultaneously, but that isn't supposed to be the implementation that Samsung ended up going with for the Octa. You scale as needed on one group of CPUs and once the workload is to much for the 4 A7s you switch over the the group of A15s.
    Who said the T4 is ruled out? nVidia doesn't make phones. They'll sell to whoever wants to buy. Whether Samsung wants buy, though, is an entirely different question.
    03-13-2013 12:13 AM
  6. OC Nut's Avatar
    Never said it was. This thread was about the SoC inside the GS4 and the T4 isn't an option. Between the two option on the table, although the snapdragon 600 has all but been ruled out, the Octa is easily the best choice.

    With that said, the T4 is a beast and would take the overall performance crown based on the released benchmarks, at least assuming it isn't severely thermal limited in a phone use case. I think the T4's biggest problem is going to be power consumption. I'll reserve judgement until we get actual phone with it inside but I'm not quite sure how well the companion core will end up working out.


    Please provide a link to this video because that goes against everything I have seen about the Octa. There is an implementation of big.little that can use the two groups simultaneously, but that isn't supposed to be the implementation that Samsung ended up going with for the Octa. You scale as needed on one group of CPUs and once the workload is to much for the 4 A7s you switch over the the group of A15s.


    Yes, see this video, at around 0:45 - 0:55. According to the demo, load is being shared between the A7s and A15s.

    "Samsung Exynos Octa reference tablet hands-on" - Videos - Viddler
    Auzo likes this.
    03-13-2013 01:46 AM
  7. thebizz's Avatar
    Well the demo made me less skeptical about this chip let's hope they can deliver on the performance front
    03-13-2013 06:43 AM
  8. Serial Fordicator's Avatar
    The snapdragon 600 will be in the us phones and the exynos will be in the global.

    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    03-13-2013 04:15 PM
  9. thebizz's Avatar
    To tell the truth if the us version gets the s600 I will wait it out for something else like the note3 or a phone using the t4. After doing more research the s600 is kinda underwhelming. I have a feeling it will be in the same category as the t3
    03-13-2013 10:28 PM
  10. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    To tell the truth if the us version gets the s600 I will wait it out for something else like the note3 or a phone using the t4. After doing more research the s600 is kinda underwhelming. I have a feeling it will be in the same category as the t3
    S600 is faster than T3, but T4 is where it's at. For sure.
    03-13-2013 10:33 PM
  11. JHBThree's Avatar
    Yes, see this video, at around 0:45 - 0:55. According to the demo, load is being shared between the A7s and A15s.

    "Samsung Exynos Octa reference tablet hands-on" - Videos - Viddler
    The chip will not be able to use both sets of cores, or even a mixture of them, at the same time. The demo might have, but the software that controls it won't allow it on actual devices. (It's one set or the other) There's also a lot of concern about latency with switching because of their implementation.
    03-13-2013 10:39 PM
  12. thebizz's Avatar
    My bad i Should have explained myself more in the previous post. I meant that the s600 will be like the t3 was. Because it will be first to the market and quickly overshadow because its an inferior product. Especially when you compare the s600 to the t4 and octa that have 4 a15 cores that are 30% faster per clock, more memory bandwidth etc.
    Edit
    Don't really think latency will be a huge issue with this chip. Have you looked at how much memory band with this thing has and how high its clocked, and I'm not sure if using a mixture of the cores isn't something that can't be fixed with a software update. Unless its a hardware limiter on it I wouldn't worry to much. Also keep in mind this is all rumor until these phones hit shelves
    03-13-2013 10:44 PM
  13. JHBThree's Avatar
    My bad i Should have explained myself more in the previous post. I meant that the s600 will be like the t3 was. Because it will be first to the market and quickly overshadow because its an inferior product. Especially when you compare the s600 to the t4 and octa that have 4 a15 cores that are 30% faster per clock, more memory bandwidth etc.
    Edit
    Don't really think latency will be a huge issue with this chip. Have you looked at how much memory band with this thing has and how high its clocked, and I'm not sure if using a mixture of the cores isn't something that can't be fixed with a software update. Unless its a hardware limiter on it I wouldn't worry to much. Also keep in mind this is all rumor until these phones hit shelves
    At a semiconductor conference where Samsung detailed that the switching was software controlled, there was actually a lot of concern. Electrical engineers that are knowledgeable about it said point blank that the fact that its software based means its slow.
    03-13-2013 11:04 PM
  14. thebizz's Avatar
    Still fail to see how it will be slower because the cores will be controlled by the android kernel. The kernel will simply hot plug the cores not in use and ramp them up when needed. Now I may not be an electrical engineer but the only worry if not having shared l2 cache. But as I said the memory should be fast enough to make this a non issue
    03-14-2013 06:58 AM
  15. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    Still fail to see how it will be slower because the cores will be controlled by the android kernel. The kernel will simply hot plug the cores not in use and ramp them up when needed. Now I may not be an electrical engineer but the only worry if not having shared l2 cache. But as I said the memory should be fast enough to make this a non issue
    It all depends on how things are implemented at the hardware level. Technically there are two four core CPU's on the same die. Not one single eight core CPU. As I pointed out above, mix and matching the A15 and A7 cores won't happen initially. At least that's what Anandtech was told by people that definitely know.

    My guess is that it has something to do with how it presents itself to the scheduler.
    03-14-2013 09:48 AM
  16. thebizz's Avatar
    Yeah I know they they have separate l1 and l2 caches with dedicated pipes running between them both. I know their will be some delay as the phone dumps one l2 cache into the other but im pretty sure they can work around that by fetching the date prior to the a15 fully taking over.
    03-14-2013 09:56 AM
  17. JHBThree's Avatar
    Still fail to see how it will be slower because the cores will be controlled by the android kernel. The kernel will simply hot plug the cores not in use and ramp them up when needed. Now I may not be an electrical engineer but the only worry if not having shared l2 cache. But as I said the memory should be fast enough to make this a non issue
    Sorry, I'll trust the concerns of people that build and design these chips for a living over you, no offense

    Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Tapatalk 2
    03-14-2013 01:46 PM
  18. thebizz's Avatar
    Oh no offense taken I know those that build these chips know much more than me. But as I said until we have it in hand, can benchmark it, and fully test it I really am not worried. Until then its all just conjecture and worries without substantiated proof. Now if it turns out that the implementation is causing lag etc I will admit I was wrong
    03-14-2013 03:37 PM
  19. EGill#WP's Avatar
    I wonder how much more expensive the big little configuration is, and how much more space it takes up. Perhaps that money and space and would be better spent on a better battery. If I am right, then the big little configuration is nothing more than a marketing gimmick.
    03-14-2013 05:17 PM
  20. JHBThree's Avatar
    I wonder how much more expensive the big little configuration is, and how much more space it takes up. Perhaps that money and space and would be better spent on a better battery. If I am right, then the big little configuration is nothing more than a marketing gimmick.
    The dual quad core is the gimmicky part. Had they opted for a quad core with a secondary dual core it would make much, much more sense.
    03-14-2013 07:05 PM
  21. thebizz's Avatar
    By quad core which one are you talking about the a15 or a7. I believe the only reason the quad core a15 is in use is just to keep up with the t4. But in my mind the quad core a7 is a good idea when you consider they are a little weaker than an a9 but they have the power of an a5. It should allow the exynos to lean on those a7 processors quite a bit more. Especially if the at all are running at full speed and they use less than 1w.
    03-14-2013 07:15 PM
  22. Kevin OQuinn's Avatar
    By quad core which one are you talking about the a15 or a7. I believe the only reason the quad core a15 is in use is just to keep up with the t4. But in my mind the quad core a7 is a good idea when you consider they are a little weaker than an a9 but they have the power of an a5. It should allow the exynos to lean on those a7 processors quite a bit more. Especially if the at all are running at full speed and they use less than 1w.
    So what you're saying is that they should've just used a single core that can offer the same performance and use the same amount of power as that A7 quad? I think a company already did that. ;-)
    03-14-2013 08:17 PM
  23. fernandez21's Avatar
    At the Verge they're saying its using an S4 Pro for the US variant. Here, it only states quad core snapdragon. Can anyone confirm which processor it's using? I just find it hard to believe Samsung would use an S4 Pro.
    03-14-2013 08:28 PM
  24. thebizz's Avatar
    No i wasnt saying that but it is a good alternative yes especially if it had shared L2 cache. but this is arm's baby so I will see how it plays out.
    03-14-2013 08:28 PM
  25. kca2000's Avatar
    At the Verge they're saying its using an S4 Pro for the US variant. Here, it only states quad core snapdragon. Can anyone confirm which processor it's using? I just find it hard to believe Samsung would use an S4 Pro.
    Ive been surfing for a confirmation on this as well. I saw that on the verge too and was shocked.
    03-14-2013 08:32 PM
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