5G health concerns

[Derek Wright]

So...now that 5g is rolling out what are your opinions on the research out there? It's well known that cell phone towers are dangerous because of radiation they emit. With them planning on deploying hundreds of thousands of small cell towers to make 5G feasible (the radio frequencies don't travel as far) pretty much everywhere you look, they'll be there. I'm not sure who or what to believe. Everyone claims to be a scientist these days and it's getting more and more difficult to comb through the research to figure out what's legit and what isn't. Is it safe? Is it not safe? Thoughts?

 

[Rukbat]

So...now that 5g is rolling out what are your opinions on the research out there? It's well known that cell phone towers are dangerous because of radiation they emit.

It's thought to be well-known by people who don't actually know.

Ionizing radiation is harmful. But sunlight is a lot more harmful than cellphone tower radiation. About the worst you can get from a cellphone tower, if you're working up at the antennas, and disconnect a cable, and the center conductor is touching your skin when the tower tries to transmit, is a small burn. Other than that, if you're right in front of one of the faces (there are normally 3 faces, each covering 120°), you might feel a little warmth. (It's the same "radiation" as used in radiodiathermy.) But by the time the signal has reached ground level (towers usually put the antennas up a few hundred feet) - you're getting more (and in most cases higher-frequency, therefore more "dangerous) radiation from your WiFi router. By the time you get outside the fence surrounding the tower - the radiation is minimal. (Cellphone SAR is advertising hype, it's not a real concern, and never was. The same frequency and type of radiation, but at 25 times the power, came out of police walkie talkies at the time SAR was first introduced. And you don't see stories about the tremendous increase in brain cancer among LEOs, do you?)

(It's not "radiation" that's dangerous - we've evolved in a world filled with radiation of various types for a few billion years, it's ionizing radiation that's dangerous.)

Everyone claims to be a scientist these days

True. I've only gotten my education in communications electronics, and been in the field for over 61 years, so some people probably know more than I do.

Is it safe? Is it not safe? Thoughts?

Aside from a burn scar I still carry after about 47 years (and would if I lived to be 200) from having a cable touching my skin, when the other end was disconnected and clearly tagged "DO NOT CONNECT!" - and someone connected it and sent 600 Watts of UHF signal through it ... I've worked around 600 Watt UHF transmitters for decades. used two way radios of various kinds up against my head for longer than that ... and Monday, at my VA appointment, my doctor commented that she wished that all her 76 year old patients were as healthy as I am. Evidently all that, probably, thousands of times of exposure to "radiation" than most people will ever get hasn't harmed me in the least.

Will it bother me if they start putting up 5G microcells on every block? In a way - I don't intend to upgrade to a phone that can handle 5G for at least a few years, so I'll have to hope that T-Mobile keeps their 4G network going until I'm ready to upgrade. But healthwise? I'm more concerned with the flu every fall. My WiFi router is sitting about 2 feet from me, my cellphone is sitting in a holster on my belt, and that's a lot more radiation than a 5G microcell on the pole across the street would subject me to when I walk to the front of the property line to get my mail. So no, I'm not worried. Since 5G will be operating on the same frequencies as 4G (and that's what determines the danger), and since 4G microcells (and repeaters that people have in their homes if they live in weak signal areas) have been all over the place for a few decades now, the danger isn't going to increase.

 

[Derek Wright]

It's thought to be well-known by people who don't actually know.

Ionizing radiation is harmful. But sunlight is a lot more harmful than cellphone tower radiation. About the worst you can get from a cellphone tower, if you're working up at the antennas, and disconnect a cable, and the center conductor is touching your skin when the tower tries to transmit, is a small burn. Other than that, if you're right in front of one of the faces (there are normally 3 faces, each covering 120°), you might feel a little warmth. (It's the same "radiation" as used in radiodiathermy.) But by the time the signal has reached ground level (towers usually put the antennas up a few hundred feet) - you're getting more (and in most cases higher-frequency, therefore more "dangerous) radiation from your WiFi router. By the time you get outside the fence surrounding the tower - the radiation is minimal. (Cellphone SAR is advertising hype, it's not a real concern, and never was. The same frequency and type of radiation, but at 25 times the power, came out of police walkie talkies at the time SAR was first introduced. And you don't see stories about the tremendous increase in brain cancer among LEOs, do you?)

(It's not "radiation" that's dangerous - we've evolved in a world filled with radiation of various types for a few billion years, it's ionizing radiation that's dangerous.)

True. I've only gotten my education in communications electronics, and been in the field for over 61 years, so some people probably know more than I do.

Aside from a burn scar I still carry after about 47 years (and would if I lived to be 200) from having a cable touching my skin, when the other end was disconnected and clearly tagged "DO NOT CONNECT!" - and someone connected it and sent 600 Watts of UHF signal through it ... I've worked around 600 Watt UHF transmitters for decades. used two way radios of various kinds up against my head for longer than that ... and Monday, at my VA appointment, my doctor commented that she wished that all her 76 year old patients were as healthy as I am. Evidently all that, probably, thousands of times of exposure to "radiation" than most people will ever get hasn't harmed me in the least.

Will it bother me if they start putting up 5G microcells on every block? In a way - I don't intend to upgrade to a phone that can handle 5G for at least a few years, so I'll have to hope that T-Mobile keeps their 4G network going until I'm ready to upgrade. But healthwise? I'm more concerned with the flu every fall. My WiFi router is sitting about 2 feet from me, my cellphone is sitting in a holster on my belt, and that's a lot more radiation than a 5G microcell on the pole across the street would subject me to when I walk to the front of the property line to get my mail. So no, I'm not worried. Since 5G will be operating on the same frequencies as 4G (and that's what determines the danger), and since 4G microcells (and repeaters that people have in their homes if they live in weak signal areas) have been all over the place for a few decades now, the danger isn't going to increase.

Very interesting, thanks for the detailed response. And while I can appreciate the fact that you have direct knowledge and experience with working in the industry, I still can't help but feel worried. Just as an example I found a study talk about how even though the radio frequencies aren't ionizing, they can and do cause damage in other ways. I'll link the study here ----> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0269749116309526

Also, I've read that 4g frequencies are sub 6GHz whereas 5G will make use of frequencies between 24-86GHz which have more energy. Is that not the case?

 

[anon(10181084)]

It's thought to be well-known by people who don't actually know.

Ionizing radiation is harmful. But sunlight is a lot more harmful than cellphone tower radiation. About the worst you can get from a cellphone tower, if you're working up at the antennas, and disconnect a cable, and the center conductor is touching your skin when the tower tries to transmit, is a small burn. Other than that, if you're right in front of one of the faces (there are normally 3 faces, each covering 120°), you might feel a little warmth. (It's the same "radiation" as used in radiodiathermy.) But by the time the signal has reached ground level (towers usually put the antennas up a few hundred feet) - you're getting more (and in most cases higher-frequency, therefore more "dangerous) radiation from your WiFi router. By the time you get outside the fence surrounding the tower - the radiation is minimal. (Cellphone SAR is advertising hype, it's not a real concern, and never was. The same frequency and type of radiation, but at 25 times the power, came out of police walkie talkies at the time SAR was first introduced. And you don't see stories about the tremendous increase in brain cancer among LEOs, do you?)

(It's not "radiation" that's dangerous - we've evolved in a world filled with radiation of various types for a few billion years, it's ionizing radiation that's dangerous.)

True. I've only gotten my education in communications electronics, and been in the field for over 61 years, so some people probably know more than I do.

Aside from a burn scar I still carry after about 47 years (and would if I lived to be 200) from having a cable touching my skin, when the other end was disconnected and clearly tagged "DO NOT CONNECT!" - and someone connected it and sent 600 Watts of UHF signal through it ... I've worked around 600 Watt UHF transmitters for decades. used two way radios of various kinds up against my head for longer than that ... and Monday, at my VA appointment, my doctor commented that she wished that all her 76 year old patients were as healthy as I am. Evidently all that, probably, thousands of times of exposure to "radiation" than most people will ever get hasn't harmed me in the least.

Will it bother me if they start putting up 5G microcells on every block? In a way - I don't intend to upgrade to a phone that can handle 5G for at least a few years, so I'll have to hope that T-Mobile keeps their 4G network going until I'm ready to upgrade. But healthwise? I'm more concerned with the flu every fall. My WiFi router is sitting about 2 feet from me, my cellphone is sitting in a holster on my belt, and that's a lot more radiation than a 5G microcell on the pole across the street would subject me to when I walk to the front of the property line to get my mail. So no, I'm not worried. Since 5G will be operating on the same frequencies as 4G (and that's what determines the danger), and since 4G microcells (and repeaters that people have in their homes if they live in weak signal areas) have been all over the place for a few decades now, the danger isn't going to increase.

It's great to see an expert debunk all these lies about cellphones being harmful. Heck, even BASIC high school physics can prove that no internal damage can be done with cell phones. Unless you really brute force it with super high power, like in a high powered microwave oven, nothing that has a wider wavelength that X-rays will penetrate skin, let alone bones in the skull or other areas. Proof? Well, light has a narrower wavelength than radio signals and yet doesn't penetrate skin much if at all unless you use an insanely powerful light source (The same with microwaves, like the ones used by phones. The ones in ovens are dangerous because they are super high power). When low power radio/microwaves from a phone hit you, they are only powerful enough to induce a small non-harmful electric current in your skin know as "Eddy currents". If the crap that people are saying about phones was true, then the "radiation" from a Tesla coil, which is enough to wirelessly power a few tube florescent bulbs, would cook us inside. Again, the reason that said Tesla coil doesn't kill you is because the current literally flows on top of your skin because it is very high frequency. Cellphones use exponentially higher frequencies than Tesla coil, therefore they are actually SAFE!

Now of course you have old school idiots who think that modern smartphones radiate far more than old 2G dumbphones. That is a BIG lie. I actually took a look at the SAR ratiings for and old call/sms-only 2G dumbphone, and the SAR exposure ratings are far higher on that thing than they are on my 4G LTE cellphone! Also, smartphones radiate less and less the more they advance. My phone radiates way less than government-issue Blackberries used by foreign service officers back in 2010 (those were "close to the limit").

 

[Morty2264]

It's nice to read these factual, scientific answers. Thank you so much! I've always wondered about this. I knew that any effect would be small but it's good to see the myths and "theories" debunked.

 

[Derek Wright]

It's nice to read these factual, scientific answers. Thank you so much! I've always wondered about this. I knew that any effect would be small but it's good to see the myths and "theories" debunked.

I'm still unconvinced, I've seen many studies other than the one in my original post claiming that they aren't necessarily safe. You should read some of them as well

 

[anon(10181084)]

I'm still unconvinced, I've seen many studies other than the one in my original post claiming that they aren't necessarily safe. You should read some of them as well

Those studies claiming it isn't safe are funded by anti-phone people (think "electrosensitive" idiots putting coins into a "let's kill 5G" donation bucket at a local shop...)

 

[Morty2264]

Those studies claiming it isn't safe are funded by anti-phone people (think "electrosensitive" idiots putting coins into a "let's kill 5G" donation bucket at a local shop...)

Every writer comes into a piece with their own unique set of biases... So you definitely have a point. It's definitely a touchy subject. Sometimes I wonder what the constant "looking down" motion with my phone will do to my neck when I'm older; and I now try and lift my head while texting, etc. Lots of things to think about when using a smartphone!

 

[anon(10181084)]

My mom made me watch last night on InfoWars (most conspiratorial site ever, BTW) some doctor going off about cellphones and 5G, along with "dirty electricity". The only thing I actually believed was the dirty electricity and the amount of EMF coming from powerlines, since that is obviously high power. The part of the whole story that was a true conspiracy theory is the claim that 5G will be more "dangerous" than what we've been exposed to. That is total bullcrap. Although 5G will need more power, it is widely known that it won't even be able to penetrate walls well. Infact, phones will still continue to use 4G/3G/2G for calls because 5G might not even be able to pass through your head (at least this is what I've read). So idiots linking cellphones to autism need to shut up, especially when 5G comes. My reaction to the bullcrap video was to tell Qualcomms tech department and their CEO via Twitter to have these mindless anti-5G "doctors" shut up. See screenshot below!

 

[Mooncatt]

Sometimes I wonder what the constant "looking down" motion with my phone will do to my neck when I'm older; and I now try and lift my head while texting, etc.

A chiropractor in my town had a message sign out front a while back that they could fix "texting elbow."

 

[anon(10181084)]

A chiropractor in my town had a message sign out front a while back that they could fix "texting elbow."

LOL... Actually, you've got a point! I think that instead of worrying about "radiation", people should be worried about repetitive motion illness.

 

[Derek Wright]

Those studies claiming it isn't safe are funded by anti-phone people (think "electrosensitive" idiots putting coins into a "let's kill 5G" donation bucket at a local shop...)

And who do you think funds the studies that claim it's safe? Those who can reap some sort of gain from the use of such technology.

 

[Derek Wright]

My mom made me watch last night on InfoWars (most conspiratorial site ever, BTW) some doctor going off about cellphones and 5G, along with "dirty electricity". The only thing I actually believed was the dirty electricity and the amount of EMF coming from powerlines, since that is obviously high power. The part of the whole story that was a true conspiracy theory is the claim that 5G will be more "dangerous" than what we've been exposed to. That is total bullcrap. Although 5G will need more power, it is widely known that it won't even be able to penetrate walls well. Infact, phones will still continue to use 4G/3G/2G for calls because 5G might not even be able to pass through your head (at least this is what I've read). So idiots linking cellphones to autism need to shut up, especially when 5G comes. My reaction to the bullcrap video was to tell Qualcomms tech department and their CEO via Twitter to have these mindless anti-5G "doctors" shut up. See screenshot below!
//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190115/993994d7aab8693463bb888f7cda804e.jpg

Take a look at this if you really think there's no reason to be worried.

http://www.5gappeal.eu

 

[Morty2264]

A chiropractor in my town had a message sign out front a while back that they could fix "texting elbow."

Oh wow! That shouldn't surprise me!

 

[Golfdriver97]

Not going to worry about it. Sooner or later I am going to die. I'm not going to waste time and energy worrying about everything that COULD POSSIBLY be detrimental to my health.

 

[Derek Wright]

Not going to worry about it. Sooner or later I am going to die. I'm not going to waste time and energy worrying about everything that COULD POSSIBLY be detrimental to my health.

I can appreciate your sentiment. However, I don't think we should have to worry about this type of **** in the first place. They should simply be doing their due diligence and making sure their products are safe to begin with.

 

[Golfdriver97]

I can appreciate your sentiment. However, I don't think we should have to worry about this type of **** in the first place. They should simply be doing their due diligence and making sure their products are safe to begin with.

But to a degree, aren't they? It's not like these devices are as lethal as cyanide.

 

[anon(10181084)]

But to a degree, aren't they? It's not like these devices are as lethal as cyanide.

Yeah. Everything *must* be approved by the FCC and IEEE to comply with health standards. As I said earlier in this thread, low power stuff like cell phones ain't gonna do nothing to you. People are concerned about the far higher power of 5G, but in essence that will be cancelled out by the significantly decreased penetration ability (if it struggles to get through a wall, it most certainly will even more easily turn into the aforementioned eddy currents that just float on top of your skin). My parents are super fearful about 5G, and reading Rukbat's myth-debunking post out loud to my mom and discussing his views with both parents didn't go over too well to say the least... This is especially embarrassing considering the fact that my father has a PhD in electrical engineering from Caltech and should know that cellphones are safe. He went as far as claiming that SAR ratings are BS. I hope that nowadays people don't get brainwashed in university anymore... I'm really tired of people being conspiratorial like this. First it was 2G flip phones being "dangerous". Turned out to be a lie. Same bullcrap repeated for 3G and 4G. Now conspiracy theorists are having more fun riding on the rapid arrival of the futuristic tech we geeks have dreamed of for years... When it comes to tech advancements, people generally tend to be too conservative. I'll start electrical engineering college later this year and I will likely be part of making our every day tech life more and more amazing, so I really HATE it when people blackmouth wireless tech that engineers put huge amounts of effort into making sure they are safe and work as intended!

Also, this thread is really going nowhere...

Edit: Fixed typo

 

[Derek Wright]

Yeah. Everything *must* be approved by the FCC and IEEE to comply with health standards. As I said earlier in this thread, low power stuff like cell phones ain't gonna do nothing to you. People are concerned about the far higher power of 5G, but in essence that will be cancelled out by the significantly decreased penetration ability (if it struggles to get through a wall, it most certainly will even more easily turn into the aforementioned eddy currents that just float on top of your skin). My parents are super fearful about 5G, and reading Rukbat's myth-debunking post out loud to my mom and discussing his views with both parents didn't go over too well to say the least... This is especially embarrassing considering the fact that my father has a PhD in electrical engineering from Caltech and should know that cellphones are safe. He went as far as claiming that SAR ratings are BS. I hope that nowadays people don't get brainwashed in university anymore... I'm really tired of people being conspiratorial like this. First it was 2G flip phones being "dangerous". Turned out to be a lie. Same bullcrap repeated for 3G and 4G. Now conspiracy theorists are having more fun riding on the rapid arrival of the futuristic tech we geeks have dreamed of for years... When it comes to tech advancements, people generation tend to be too conservative. I'll start electrical engineering college later this year and I will likely be part of making our every day tech life more and more amazing, so I really HATE it when people blackmouth wireless tech that engineers put huge amounts of effort into making sure they are safe and work as intended!

Also, this thread is really going nowhere...

That's exactly my point though, there are studies coming out now that are pointing to the possibility of low frequency NIR now having affects in ways (I assume) they didn't think (or simply couldn't) to study before. Our bodies pretty much run on electrical currents so it seems plausible that even these relatively low powered external sources could have an affect on our cells. Many are talking about these frequencies upping the amount of free radicals floating around which are well known to cause damage.

 

[Morty2264]

Not going to worry about it. Sooner or later I am going to die. I'm not going to waste time and energy worrying about everything that COULD POSSIBLY be detrimental to my health.

I gotta adopt this way of life...